Helpful ReplyWaves plugins quality vs competitors

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Kman88
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2018/11/23 00:40:01 (permalink)

Waves plugins quality vs competitors

 

Do waves play nice with sonar? 
Which bundle would you get? 
Any must have single plugins?
Better than what already comes with sonar, eg pro channel?

What are your favorite plugins from any vendor?
 
Thanks,
 
Kevin

Win 7 64bit, Asus MB with AMD Quad Core,  8GB Ram, RME Multiface II, Yamaha Motif ES6

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Kevin Keough
#1
Audioicon
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 00:52:21 (permalink)
Kman88

 

Do waves play nice with sonar? 
Which bundle would you get? 
Any must have single plugins?
Better than what already comes with sonar, eg pro channel?

What are your favorite plugins from any vendor?
 
Thanks,
 
Kevin


I use Waves on all of my recordings. Works well with Sonar, no issues.

These are the plugs I used on all my music.

1) UltraVerb (Eventide)
2) Fabfilter Pro-Q
3) Eddie Kramer Tape (Waves)
4) Sonitus Delay (Cakewalk)

You can hear these on my Latest Single: Telephone Love.

I must tell you, it is easy to get drown deep in plugins. I avoid this by using very little and avoiding plugin overload.

Just get what works and stick to it.

Fabfilter, Waves, Eventide and SoundToys are my go to.

I plan to replace Sonitus Delay with Echo Boy. But it has been one of the best for me.

Good luck!

Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
#2
Brian Walton
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 02:10:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby marled 2018/11/23 16:17:49
I use Waves plugins but I've had more instalation problems with them than any other plugin maker.
 
These make it onto just about every project
J37 Tape
NLS 
SSL-Bus Comp
Abbey Road Plate Reverb (uses a ton of CPU though and usually only on a track or two)
 
 
Schepps Omni Channel is probably the best bang for the buck plug they have when on sale for $29.  If you are going to get one, that is probably it.  Saturation, EQ, Comp, etc and they play nice together.  Looks simple but there are deeper options under the hood (check out some videos on it).  
 
Also note if you use more than one computer, Waves is one of the only company that gives you only one single liscence.  I HATE that.  You can author to a USB stick, but then you have to use a USB port just for that.
 
They make pro quality stuff, but I seem to have trouble with them every single time I try to add another one to the collection and the Waves Installer.  They also take a LONG time to scan on startup, so if you buy them, you might want to check the don't scan at startup button and just run it when you add more to the computer.
 
Cakewalk's quality will depend on what you have.  Things like the EQ, MB Comp, Limiter, B-Reverb, Rematrix Reverb, and CA-2A are all top shelf.  (you might not have some of this unless you had Platinum before Bandlab).
 
Depends on the effects you are looking for.  Don't get trapped into thinking Waves is "it," but they do have quite a few useful tools. 
 
I use Izotope a lot (Neutron, Ozone, RX)
 
Boz Digital (Mongoose used on every track with Bass)  
 
Toneboosters had good quality for cheep
 
If you have Platinum, there is likley nothing you actually need (other than noise reduction).  There are are just different flavors and workflows by other manufactures.  Example, I could use the Tape Sim in Cakewalk, but find the J37 does sound better to my ears, same with the NLS vs Cakes'  But these are subtle color things and in an blind test, might not even pick the right one.  
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Leadfoot
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 02:43:22 (permalink)
I use NLS, PAZ, and Kramer Tapes, Tubes & Transistors on just about every mix. I have good results with all of them, and they very rarely give me any trouble. I would also look into Klanghelm Plugins. Great plugs, and they're very affordable. Definitely check out his MJUC compressor. Awesome... PSP also makes some great plugs. The Xenon limiter is excellent. Softube plugs are great, but they're expensive. I got their mix bundle when it was first introduced at a great price, and I use them on almost every mix. I've heard Fabfilter makes great plugs as well, but also expensive. There are many more that are great as well, but just make sure you make the most with what you have, instead of always chasing the next great plugin. :)
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Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 03:22:25 (permalink)
Thanks everyone, very helpful. I have the latest platinum pre bandlab and love all their plugs. I use ozone 8 and rx. When waves first came out i was poor and couldn't afford them. Lol. Now they're having a great sale and wondering if i should see what I've been missing. But they have so many it's hard to find the sweet spot. Only want to spend a couple hundred away most. I was thinking gold $99 , ssl 4000 $99, then i get 2 free, cla-2a and I'll look into that shepps omni channel. Sound like a good start?

Kevin

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Regards,
Kevin Keough
#5
garry
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 12:46:50 (permalink)
I used to use Waves Gold back in the 32-bit days. Hated the iLok dongle thing so I actually used a cracked version. When I went 64-bit, I left them behind as the plug-ins in SPLAT did what I needed, and the Waves stuff was still expensive to upgrade.
 
I see the current sale on the Gold bundle for $99 and am quite tempted at that price. When I had them, I used them a lot. I also see that Waves ditched the iLok thing and doing more of challenge/response deal I guess with Waves Center.
 
These days, I don't use a lot of effects on sends (BREVERB2, Sonitus Delay) and find that ProChannel is OK for simple EQ and compression. I like the Renaissance plug-ins and MaxxBass. But I'm just recording my own bands now, no more outside projects unless they are really good friends.
 
I suspect I will pull the trigger on the Gold bundle just for old times sake as I'm familiar them and generally liked them. The other bonus is that they won't be locked to single DAW like many of the plug-ins that come bundled are.
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Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 13:06:25 (permalink)
Garry good point about not being locked to a single daw!

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Kevin Keough
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msmcleod
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 13:58:29 (permalink)
Kman88
Thanks everyone, very helpful. I have the latest platinum pre bandlab and love all their plugs. I use ozone 8 and rx. When waves first came out i was poor and couldn't afford them. Lol. Now they're having a great sale and wondering if i should see what I've been missing. But they have so many it's hard to find the sweet spot. Only want to spend a couple hundred away most. I was thinking gold $99 , ssl 4000 $99, then i get 2 free, cla-2a and I'll look into that shepps omni channel. Sound like a good start?
Kevin



I agree with Brian's comment regarding what you get with Cakewalk, especially if you've got Sonar Platinum as well.
 
Also, take a closer look at the BlueTube collection that came with Platinum. There's a fair few emulations in there that aren't obvious - e.g. pultech eq.
 
With regard to your proposed selection...
 
Cakewalk's Pro Channel already more or less emulates the SSL E EQ, SSL G EQ, the SSL console and the SSL Bus Compressor. Whether or not the waves ones are better or not is probably subjective. I guess the PC4K Channel Compressor is the obvious missing component here, which (unless you bought it), is not available for purchase any more.
 
I've got the Waves SSL collection, and it does sound fantastic - but more often than not, the ProChannel does it for me.
 
The Scheps omni channel is a good choice. 
  
You may already have Cakewalk's CA-2A compressor as it was given away a while back. There's very little difference between this and the Waves CLA-2A.  Personally, if you've got CA-2A, I wouldn't bother with the CLA-2A but instead look at something like the Scheps 73. 
 
Some Waves plugins are just really useful, such as Vocal Rider, L2 Ultramaximiser, and a few more.
 
Take a good look at what you've got already before make your choice.
 

Mark McLeod
Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 14:19:37 (permalink)
I just listened to some processors in Native Komplete 12! They found really good. Any experience with that package of goodies?

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Kevin Keough
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 16:23:18 (permalink)
The old cakewalk stuff is good. Between pc and the sonitus you are set for eq and dynamics. Get a great reverb or some eventide fx and you’ll be ready to go. Waves is good but not special the cake stuff is as good if not better. And like everyone else, they try to lock you in to their product line and make you upgrade.
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marled
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 16:49:35 (permalink)
Brian Walton
Also note if you use more than one computer, Waves is one of the only company that gives you only one single liscence.  I HATE that.  You can author to a USB stick, but then you have to use a USB port just for that.
 
They make pro quality stuff, but I seem to have trouble with them every single time I try to add another one to the collection and the Waves Installer.  They also take a LONG time to scan on startup, so if you buy them, you might want to check the don't scan at startup button and just run it when you add more to the computer.

 
These are exactly the reasons why I don't use Waves plugins anymore!
 
In addition to this: Their installer is a nightmare, it cannot remove one single plugin (e.g. a trial). You have to remove all of them and then reinstall the ones you want! This documents also something about their development quality!
 
 
But for me the worst dislike with Waves plugins applies to their shell solution (for the DAWs there is only the Waves shell plugin visible, the individual plugins are hidden). This causes LONG plugin scan times in every DAW as Brian has mentioned above. And additionally you cannot organize the Waves plugins in folders of your choice like with all other plugins. I am also convinced that some problems with Waves plugins in several DAWs occur because of this exotic shell solution!
 
Another complain about Waves that I have heard on this forum, is their nasty update strategy. First they allure you with great sale prices, but then again and again they force you to pay for updates that do essentially not contain something new!

... many years before ...
#11
Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 17:51:50 (permalink)
Not sure how a company forces you to pay for updates. Will waves stop working if you don't pay for the updates?

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Kevin Keough
#12
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 18:54:05 (permalink)
Kman88
Not sure how a company forces you to pay for updates. Will waves stop working if you don't pay for the updates?




I think the strategy is to get you to buy a incredible deal on one of their plugins for $29, but then installing it hoses the other Waves plugins you had working, so you have to buy the support to make them all work with the latest WaveShell thing they use. I have only one Waves plugin and thought about buying a second one, but since I didn't buy support on the one I already have, decided to blow it off and not get myself into a clusterf*ck over a fire sale priced plugin.  Since then I started using the Linux version of REAPER and totally stopped using the one Waves plugin I have.

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#13
tlw
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 19:17:24 (permalink)
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
I think the strategy is to get you to buy a incredible deal on one of their plugins for $29, but then installing it hoses the other Waves plugins you had working, so you have to buy the support to make them all work with the latest WaveShell thing they use.


Sorry, but this is simply wrong. You can run Waves v9 and v10 plugins on the same computer without problems so long as they aren’t versions of the same plugin. So no, upgrading some plugins to v10/buying a v10 plugin does not force you to upgrade all your existing v9 plugins.

https://www.waves.com/sup...uently-asked-questions

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#14
marled
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 20:04:02 (permalink)
Generally you are right tlw, you can use plugins of different versions. But on the other hand many users had a mess with it. There was an own thread here on this forum about users' pain trying to use plugins of 2 versions. In the end there were some who dicided to upgrade because of the problems and that's exactly what Waves wanted by making it a bit fuzzy. Also their upgrade invitation per e-mail is quite confusing and pushing.

... many years before ...
#15
Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 20:17:53 (permalink)
It's a combo of circumventing pirated software and to keep revenue flowing. I hate "renting" software but that is the trend these days. I purchased a lifetime upgrade to Sonar Platinum just a month or two before the announcement.
 
I've fought with software upgrades in the past so maybe I'm up to the challenge to find out what Waves plugins sound like.
 
I agree that splat provides some great ones and I have them all still. But I'm nostalgic for the Gold bundle which at one time I dreamed about but couldn't afford. Wish me luck. Lol

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Grem
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 20:33:26 (permalink)
tlw is correct. V9 and V10 (along with older versions if you still have them and not upgraded) will exist on the same machine.
 
Marled is also correct in that there was some serious issues with V9 and V10 being on the same machine when V10 first came out. It did cause a lot of people here grief. But Waves support worked it out and as far as I know, no one had to pay to get the fix. 
 
Kman88 no the plugin will work as long as you want them to. You won't ever have to pay to upgrade them so they will work. What you pay for is a newer version of the same plugin. And the ability to sell/transfer the plugin if you choose. 
 
Also Kman88, there is not a dud plugin in the Gold bundle. They are all great plugins. I have lots of Waves plugin and don't regret the purchases. Most were made after the prices started going way down. I don't think I paid full price for one single Waves plugin. Money was well spent. Excellent plugins.
 
A little advise Kman88, get the Gold first for $99. That's a no-brainer price. See if you like them and the install/licenses process. Then if you find you want the SSL collection, wait for a sale. It will happen, just give it time and wait for the time to pounce!! That SSL collection is really good. You will hear a difference.
 
And like Mark says in post #8, the CA-2A is just as good as the rest of the emulations anyone has. So if ya got it, stick with it.

Grem

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#17
Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 21:09:59 (permalink)
So if splat has great plugs, and I also have ozone, what more do I need?
 
One poster says sheps omni channel, another says we already have pro channel.
 
So another way to ask, what is the one waves plugin you use that you couldn't live without?
 
I'm trying to buy the right bundle(s) and single(s) and keep under $200. But the diamond bundle is tempting at $249. But is the money better spent on gold and ssl 4000? And that one other wave plug you just can't live without.
 
Thanks,
 
Kevin
 

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Kevin Keough
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bitflipper
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 21:35:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry2 2018/11/24 18:00:01
As for the original question regarding quality, you'll hear very few complaints about Waves products. Aside from a few UI issues over the years, they have been remarkably reliable. In terms of audio quality they are as good as anything out there.
 
The problem with Waves isn't with quality, but rather their business practices. After three separate occasions when my Waves plugins abruptly stopped working and essentially accused my of being a thief, and (at that time) there was zero support available without a WUP contract, I abandoned Waves.
 
Once upon a time, Waves offered unique products that had no comparable substitutes. The good news is that that is no longer the case. These days folks can easily equip their toolkits with everything they need without Waves.
 
Assuming, of course, that one's bag of tricks is actually incomplete to begin with. I would argue that with X2 you already have everything you need, all of excellent quality, with just one notable exception: X2 lacked a really good limiter. Get yourself a copy of Ozone Advanced from iZotope and you'll be set.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
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Leadfoot
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/23 21:40:36 (permalink)
I really love the sound of Kramer Master Tape on my drum buss. I use it on every song I record. To say I couldn't live without it? Nah... I can't say that. I think any waves plugin has an equivalent or better made by many other companies.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 01:04:14 (permalink)
V9 and v10s do NOT work on my machine, once I went to 10, the 9s stopped working and Waves refused to assist without paying the upgrade fee, which I did not do.  I was not alone in this and I know others that sucommed to the upgrade fee to fix that problem.  
 
 
#21
Brian Walton
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 01:28:14 (permalink)
Kman88
So if splat has great plugs, and I also have ozone, what more do I need?
 
One poster says sheps omni channel, another says we already have pro channel.
 
So another way to ask, what is the one waves plugin you use that you couldn't live without?
 
I'm trying to buy the right bundle(s) and single(s) and keep under $200. But the diamond bundle is tempting at $249. But is the money better spent on gold and ssl 4000? And that one other wave plug you just can't live without.
 
Thanks,
 
Kevin
 


I took a look at the Waves gold bundle, I've owned a number of those and honestly don't see anything in there that would be tempting to really add to what Platinum already gives you. 
 
Cakewalk could use a better delay, but something like super-tap wouldn't be my choice.  
 
And at $250, I'd much rather buy ~9 individual plugins I actually want than the plethora of old ones that wouldn't give you an upgrade.
 
the SSL bundle is ok, but realistically the Buss Comp in the package is the only one I really use.  The channel strips sound great on paper, but I've found in practice I don't love them.  The Omni Channel is far more versitle and to me, sounds better on way more sources.  And few people use the Stand Alone EQ plug in the SSL.  To me, not worth $99.  I'd just buy the Buss (when it goes on sale) and maybe the E-Channel if you really want it.  I got both of those for less than $50 together.
 
None are live without, but the Abbey Roads Plates just did things I couldn't get other reverbs to do, kinda magical on Vocals.  But it isn't something you can likley use on every track.  Again the Omni Channel just does a lot really well and the Buss Compressor I never hear a bad thing about it and Sonar didn't come with a great buss comp in the box.  J37 tape sounds better than the Kramer (to me) and it might be the placebo effect, but I just put the thing on virtually everything - though it is just a suble color and your friends/clients likley wouldn't notice if it wasn't there.  
 
If the goal is noticable (better) differences.  I'd vote.  Omni, SSL Buss, and Abbey Road Plates.  Each when on sale for sub $29.
 
Pro Channel is very good.  The non CA2A comp has never wowed me for general use though (I don't care for the WAVES SSL E/G Channel comp either mind you).   Omni gives more comp types, which makes it better for more sources.
 
 
#22
Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 03:14:34 (permalink)
Thanks folks. Great info

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Kevin Keough
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Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 05:19:11 (permalink)
With all your help and having watched a slew of videos, 
I made a decision to get Gold and SSL 4000 bundles along with Vocal Rider and Sheps Omni Channel as my free plugs. I also went for H-EQ Hybrid EQ. 
 
Can't wait to start in on new projects with new tools.
 
Thanks again,
 
Kevin

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Kevin Keough
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Leadfoot
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 14:01:27 (permalink)
Congrats Kevin. I hope you have fun with your new plugs!
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KingsMix
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 15:15:05 (permalink)
Kman88
With all your help and having watched a slew of videos, 
I made a decision to get Gold and SSL 4000 bundles along with Vocal Rider and Sheps Omni Channel as my free plugs. I also went for H-EQ Hybrid EQ. 
 
Can't wait to start in on new projects with new tools.
 
Thanks again,
 
Kevin


Feel confident in your choice.
For someone just starting out with waves, the decision of Gold and SSL 4000 bundles along with Vocal Rider and Sheps Omni Channel ,H-EQ Hybrid EQ, is a great choice. It actually puts you deep into the world of waves from the start. You have all the tools you need to make your mixes happen. Just take your time with the plugs and learn them inside and out.
Congrats on your purchase!!!!

 
#26
Kman88
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/24 21:42:43 (permalink)
Thanks. Can't wait to drive in! Ramping up the music making!

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Kevin Keough
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sven450
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Re: Waves plugins quality vs competitors 2018/11/27 14:38:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Kman88 2018/11/28 19:02:04
Quick and late note:  I have found that I rarely use Waves plugs now that I have Platinum, as SPLAT has just about all I need, but most in the Waves H Series still gets used.  The H Delay is really fantastic, and is my go to for everything these days.

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i7 6700  16 Gig Ram
Some songs
Covers:  https://soundcloud.com/cygnuss/sets/covers
Originals:
 https://soundcloud.com/cygnuss/sets/originals
#28
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