Web sights seized and shut down...

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Guitarhacker
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2010/11/27 13:38:55 (permalink)

Web sights seized and shut down...

It's a "see I told you so moment" ..... the federal government Homeland Security has today, seized and shut down numerous web sites that they claim are infringing on copyright law.....

Story Here

A number of music web sites are among those seized (without warrants and due process of law) by the govt and shut down.... apparently for posting and allowing the downloading of copyrighted material.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/11/27 13:40:07

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    Mooch4056
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 14:01:22 (permalink)
    mixed feelings here 


    While swaping and trading copy written material on torrent web sites is illegal - I think the right of due process is being taken advantage of as stated in the article 


    that being said ......

    as the site mentions torrent sharing sites and search engines with out tracking systems are harder to nail and prosecute ...

    so ... like the war on drugs - 

    its kinda bull sh** and nothing really is being stopped 



    except now we get more freedom and privacy taken away from us ... which in my opinion is the real agenda - 

    well that and money 


    bottom line is always money 




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    #2
    drewfx1
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 15:25:12 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    It's a "see I told you so moment" ..... the federal government Homeland Security has today, seized and shut down numerous web sites that they claim are infringing on copyright law.....

    Story Here

    A number of music web sites are among those seized (without warrants and due process of law) by the govt and shut down.... apparently for posting and allowing the downloading of copyrighted material.

    Where does it say there was no warrant? An operator claimed he had no advance notice, but that doesn't mean there was no warrant (Do the police call ahead before they show up to arrest someone?).

    Not to endorse the government here, but if they have a warrant you can't really claim there was no due process.
    #3
    MrMook
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 16:29:41 (permalink)
    ...and so it begins......

    Dave- 

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    #4
    jhughs
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 16:36:47 (permalink)
    An interesting note though, about a year ago I tried to post a homemade video on YouTube with Emerson, Lake and Palmer playing as the soundtrack.  The site wouldn't let me post until I lowered the volume and convoluted it enough to no longer pose a copyright infringement.  The point is, YouTube has a powerful copyright checker to keep them out of legal trouble.  That's something others are going to have to invest in as well (of course, it helps if you have Google's coffer).

    This all makes me wonder how people will behave differently when the illusion of anonymity on the internet is gone (I'm assuming IPv6 will result in individually assigned IP addresses).

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    Mooch4056
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 16:37:01 (permalink)
    MrMook


    ...and so it begins......





    http://emailsanta.com/clock.asp  <<<< Santa's Christmas Countdown - 27 more sleeps! 



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    MrMook
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 16:41:36 (permalink)
    Mooch4056


    MrMook


    ...and so it begins......





    http://emailsanta.com/clock.asp  <<<< Santa's Christmas Countdown - 27 more sleeps! 


    54 sleeps for me, Mooch. I take a nap every day.

    I wonder if Homeland Security will shut that site down?

    Dave- 

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    #7
    marcos69
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 17:21:36 (permalink)
    Why don't the feds shutdown these ****s that take control of your machine and pretend to have the "fix" if you buy their antivirus software?
    #8
    rsp@odyssey.net
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 17:32:04 (permalink)
    From what I've read today, these were court ordered actions. The sites in question had links or were solely used to link searchers to sites that deal in pirated software, music, and merchandise such as clothing, golf clubs and shoes.

    The estimates are that these types of sites cost the U.S. economy over 100 billion per year. Thats making the assumption that if this merchandise was purchased legitimately instead of stolen.

    One official made an interesting comment. "The internet was meant to be free, not lawless"

    Randy

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    Crg
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 18:58:56 (permalink)
    I read the list of sites in the article. I'd have to say good job gentlemen. Some of the threatening comments following the article should tell you what the response will be from the horde of cyber pirates selling faked merchandise and pirated intellectual property. The fear factor of such a large police operation will open many eyes. Many people sell on the internet unknowing (or caring) of the products legitamacy.
    I can't look on such an excercise as censorship, I can only say it's high time someone pulled the plug on a lot of sites.

    Craig DuBuc
    #10
    ericyeoman
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 19:33:00 (permalink)
    Some of the threatening comments...


    First mention of Nazis comes in at post 13.



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    bitflipper
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/27 20:13:19 (permalink)
    These kinds of raids are just for show, just like taking away your fingernail clippers at the airport.

    The servers will just move to China or Czechoslovakia, then the next step will be for the government to restrict access to designated cyber-outlaw countries. That'll work about as well as it currently does for the Chinese government, so the next step after that will be arresting users who access sites in forbidden domains.

    ISPs will then be required to install snooping software to ferret out the lawbreakers, and punishments will become ever more draconian until you have individuals facing $1.5M fines for stealing a hundred bucks worth of music. Oh wait, we're already there. OK, proceed directly to step three: prison terms.



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    RobertB
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 00:35:00 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker
    the federal government Homeland Security has today, seized and shut down numerous web sites that they claim are infringing on copyright law.....


    Maybe I'm just daft, but I don't see the connection.



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    SongCraft
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 00:47:05 (permalink)
    Herb: (without warrants and due process of law)!



    *yawn* aww man I need another cup pot of coffee!



    #14
    Rbh
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 00:54:32 (permalink)
    How can the Justice department act on this if it has only passed through committee?

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    AT
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 00:59:39 (permalink)
    If you create content, piracy is taking money out of your pocket.  There are arguements that it makes your audience larger (for music, anyway), but neither of my teenagers seemed to care one whit about paying for all the songs they listened to.  And eventually, you get what you pay for.  I can't wait for the day one person pays for all of our copies of SONAR X15 - but I imagine it won't be quite so cutting edge.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some of these thieves being sent to Guantanamo, or better yet, star in "Survivor Kandahar," where they could join some investment bankers, etc. to see if they can make it out.

    cordially,

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    #16
    slartabartfast
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 01:44:09 (permalink)

    The servers will just move to China or Czechoslovakia, then the next step will be for the government to restrict access to designated cyber-outlaw countries.


    An interesting point. But it raises the question of just what seizure of a domain name entails. I assume it may just means serving papers on the domain registration authority in our country to re-direct requests for those url's  to a government server. In that case, the physical location of the actual server for the "seized" domain name is irrelevant. Domain name servers already filter and direct calls to some url's so that a user in Europe for example will be directed to a different page (if not server) than one in the U. S.

    Physical seizures of evidence at site operators in the U. S. along with paypal accounts etc. were apparently done in an earlier operation aimed at movie piracy. Moving the server out of the U. S. jurisdiction would certainly make that kind of process difficult. The current operation is described as a seizure of evidence based on warrants and hence does not require anything more than a reasonable expectation that evidence of a crime will be found.  But if these are truly search and seizure of evidence warrants, they may be inappropriate vehicles for shutting down sites.

    China has had considerable success with the great cyber-wall by controlling the sites that can be accessed via isp's connected to computers in their country, and presumably that would be possible here. Presumably that might be the mechanism by which the enforcement of actual banned sites could be accomplished.

    The government may be underestimating the ease with which a new domain name could be obtained and the difficulty of monitoring whether new sites are as egregious as the ones they replace. At any rate such harassment will reduce the profit margin of the pirates-for-money, and the most lucrative sites will be the easiest to spot.


    post edited by slartabartfast - 2010/11/28 01:45:41
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    ericyeoman
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 06:59:31 (permalink)
    How can the Justice department act on this if it has only passed through committee?


    The laws the warrants were issued under did not include S.3804, it is clearly not listed on the notification
    the various agencies have put on the websites.

    Also in the article Herb linked to the second sentence begins "Without any need for COICA..."

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    Crg
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 07:47:53 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    These kinds of raids are just for show, just like taking away your fingernail clippers at the airport.

    The servers will just move to China or Czechoslovakia, then the next step will be for the government to restrict access to designated cyber-outlaw countries. That'll work about as well as it currently does for the Chinese government, so the next step after that will be arresting users who access sites in forbidden domains.

    ISPs will then be required to install snooping software to ferret out the lawbreakers, and punishments will become ever more draconian until you have individuals facing $1.5M fines for stealing a hundred bucks worth of music. Oh wait, we're already there. OK, proceed directly to step three: prison terms.


    You could be right. Far too often overkill results in mass actions. Not to mention an increase in cyber attacks by the disgruntled pirate networks.

    Craig DuBuc
    #19
    mike_mccue
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 08:14:06 (permalink)
    Wow Herb, your linking to a torrent web site kinda left me speechless.

    Can you post a freakin warning next time? Please.

    I just blindly trusted you and clicked on it and found myself surfing to site I don't want to be associated with.

    best regards,
    mike

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    #20
    ericyeoman
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 08:23:30 (permalink)
    Wow Herb, your linking to a torrent web site kinda left me speechless.


    But there aren't any torrents on that site...

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 08:28:55 (permalink)
    This made me raugh out roud.

    Hijack the DNS. Priceless.

    I can see some webmaster going to log in to his site to administer it and is locked out. LOL.

    The admin is going to say to him/herself "Oh that's not fair!"...  Where to go to complain?

    This is but an opening instalment of the greatest version of "Tom and Jerry" we've ever seen...

    I love the officious looking US badges too they all look like they've been devised by some 7 year old boy scout over zealously trying to make his own offshoot private club that only his bestest chums can join... oh my.

    This is going to be fun.

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    mike_mccue
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 09:15:15 (permalink)
    ericyeoman



    Wow Herb, your linking to a torrent web site kinda left me speechless.


    But there aren't any torrents on that site...


    Suffice it to say that IF I had been smart or alert enough to read the link address I would have simply not clicked it. My mistake.

    I assumed I was going to a news outlet site... even Rush's site would have been a more comfortable place to arrive.

    best regards,
    mike



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    SongCraft
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 10:08:58 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    Wow Herb, your linking to a torrent web site kinda left me speechless.

    Can you post a freakin warning next time? Please.

    I just blindly trusted you and clicked on it and found myself surfing to site I don't want to be associated with.

    best regards,
    mike

    The feds raided houses, also most likely seized site logs, activities, accounts etc'. Sites involved in movie and music piracy, and other serious crimes...  investigations will go deeper (to catch other 'individuals' involved)!

    *round of applause to the feds* :)

    Anyway, here's a news article: Click Here it basically explains what's going on.   Meanwhile I'll just put another pot of hot coffee on and relax :)


    Edited post: to better explain!

    -


    post edited by SongCraft - 2010/11/28 11:32:49



    #24
    SongCraft
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 10:20:30 (permalink)
    Another news article here (NY Times)!



    #25
    drewfx1
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 11:34:19 (permalink)
    slartabartfast

    The government may be underestimating the ease with which a new domain name could be obtained and the difficulty of monitoring whether new sites are as egregious as the ones they replace. At any rate such harassment will reduce the profit margin of the pirates-for-money, and the most lucrative sites will be the easiest to spot.

    I'm not sure getting a new domain name would be the solution. A new domain name is useless unless it's well known enough to get traffic. And once it gets well-known it can get taken down.

    I would expect those seriously interested in pirated material would do the opposite - not register a domain that could be easily taken down, but instead either piggyback off of some other large (offshore) domain, use offshore DNS servers (which I think may be potentially dangerous for the user), or bypass DNS altogether and just share the relevant IP addresses in pirate forums or wherever.

    But taking down domains probably makes it a bit harder for "casual" users of pirated material to find stuff. And it gives owners of legitimate domains something to think about if they allow pirates to operate freely underneath their domain name.
    #26
    SongCraft
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 11:59:48 (permalink)
    Copyrights extend beyond US borders.

    Pirates seriously can't think that they can get away with setting up illegal sites (piracy) overseas to avoid shutdown! (read the news) one Egyptian fellow got busted and he is not happy, not happy at all.

    But I'm not sure how effective this bill will be in other countries such as; China.

    Anyway! I support the bill; shutdown the freaking pirate sites!

    .



    #27
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 14:38:10 (permalink)
    I also fail to see the connection between copyright infringement, and homeland security.... just saying..... what is the jurisdictional authority they claim there to seize private property in this manner?

    And I do not believe (I might be wrong) but my understanding is this has not yet been passed into law....and to my understanding, they have to have a law that allows this sort of police state action, to be  properly passed and signed BEFORE they can seize something..... and due process, you know the innocent until proven guilty thing kinda comes into play as well, they have to prove you guilty in a court of law, or convince a judge to sign a search/seizure warrant......... so they are overstepping their authority by law.... then again, this might have had some sort of national eminent security threat that clearly supersedes the constitutional bounds, but I always thought the constitution was specifically written to prevent government abuses like this......  I don't know..... just saying.

    There might be some unknown national security threat that we are not aware of that selling a fake handbag or allowing an illegal music download will cause.

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    #28
    rsp@odyssey.net
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 15:14:13 (permalink)
    Herb, you should probably read the article linked in post #25. It should clear up things for you a bit.

    Randy

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Web sights seized and shut down... 2010/11/28 15:40:14 (permalink)
    What is this pilates and why should I be discouraged from practicing it?

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    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #30
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