Weird Audio-/Midi sync problem and "VSTi-sound" problem

Hello,
as i stated above i have a weird audio-/midi sync problem and a "VSTi-sound" problem.
If i start Sonar X1c Producer Expanded, load a song (130bpm) with Audio and Vsti's and start playback, audio and midi are total out of sync!
Audio tracks (Guitars, bass, Vocals and so on) are on 130 bpm perfectly, but the vsti's are not.
Addictive Drums "jolts" and is way behind the beat, i can't hear True Piano from Cakewalk  and the vb-3 (hammond Simulation) stutters!
If i stop the song and start playback all is fine and in sync! This behaviour don't occur no longer while i "work" in this session.
If i quit the song and start it again, i get the same behaviour i stated above.
The song isn't a monster project, only 10 Audio tracks and some VSTi'svb3, Reaktor, Addictive Drums and True Piano. Buffer size 256 samples, CPU load is around 15%. No clicks and pops.
 
I'm new in Sonar X1 but i have worked a long time with Cubase 6 and Samplitude ProX, and i never haven't got this problem in this DAW's.
 
Do you have an idea?
 
My PC:
i7 930, 6 GB, ASUS P6T-SE
Geforce GTS250
Win 7 64 Ultimate (Audio optimized)
RME ADI-2 via spdif to RME Fireface UC, newest driver, Buffer 256 Samples
Clock: Timing Master record and playback are on RME ADI-2, i change it to another in-and ouput, there is no difference.
 
whitealbum
 

I've noticed the same thing at times, but in 8.5 as well.  I suspect it has to do with VSTi's and how Sonar does it's Midi to Audio rendering.  IMHO, CW needs to put some more attention to it's Midi implementation.

Also, what could be happening could follow from Disc caching.  I wonder if on initial project load it only loads the wav pic cache.  However, when you actually play, then it loads the wavs and any Vsti's that do disc streaming into cache, and this concurrent loading causes a stutter/timing issue.

I try to avoid the issue by those parts/VSTi's that have heavy processing by freezing those tracks first, even if there's plenty of CPU.

daveny5


Are you recording at 24/96K? If so, back it down to 24/44.1K.

What about the disk drive? Is it 7200RPM or 5400?

No, i'm recording 24/44.1K
Disk drive is 7200RPM, a fast seagate drive
 
This aren't the issues, but thank you for responding.

Danny Danzi


I only have this issue when using Sonar 64 and larger buffer sizes. I found that my issue was more due to Bit Bridge, so I switched the plugs that were giving me this timing inconsistency over to J-Bridge and it fixed everything. Kontakt was killing me with this loss of timing thing....but it only happened in Sonar 64 and was perfect in Sonar 32.

If you're using Sonar 64 with 256 buffers...try 128 and then 64 just to see if the problem goes away. If it does, it sounds like you may need to get J-Bridge. Or, are you using that 64 bit mix engine option in your audio options? If so, just for the heck of it...take the check out of that box. I've had a few inconsistencies with that option enabled on my end. Hope some of this helps...good luck.

-Danny

Hi Danny,
thanks, all my 32 Bit Plugins was bridged by Joao's latest jbridge version:-)
Because i use Cubase 6 64 Bit as well, and Steinbergs bridge is a mess, bad performance, but with "jbridged-32 Plugin's", Cubase 6 64 Bitworks like a dream.
The jbridge option isn't checked.
As i stated before, now all things work after i started the same song that i made in Samplitude ProX (its a "DAW learn song"). After that i started Sonar X1 64 Bit new and all works like a dream.
I think its a caching problem.
Anyone from cakewalk, do you know this issue?

whitealbum: that motherboard needs this chipset driver to work properly Version 9.1.1.1014 even if Intel has a newer one !! http://www.asus.com/Mothe..._1366/P6T_SE/#download There are Many Bios rev.s your board shoud be running P6T SE 0805 BIOS..at least 1. Improve system stability 2. Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: http://support.asus.com...P6T SE 0908 BIOS is the latest Version: 285.62 WHQL Release Date: 2011.10.24 Operating System: Windows Vista 64-bit, Windows 7 64-bit Language: English (U.S.) File Size: 147 MB http://www.nvidia.com/obj...85.62-whql-driver.html il look back to see how your doing !!

Some news about that, but not really a solution!

Meanwhile, on every first "Song start", and it doesn't matter, if Sonar Producer X1c (Expanded 64 Bit) is open or not, i get the problem with "stuttered" sounds or NO sound.

I have 4 VSTi in this project:
True Piano, VB3 (32 Bit), Addictive Drums (32 Bit) and Reaktor 5 (64 Bit)
If i start the project and push the space bar, playback begins.
From Reaktor 5 you hear mostly the correct sound.
From True PIano, no sound, nothing
VB3, only partly.
Addcitive Drums (via Drum map) stutters in the wrong bpm.

All stereo vstis (true Piano, VB3 and Reaktor) were inserted as a Simple INstrument track.
After i divide True Piano into a Midi and Audio track, all instruments play correctly! VB3 and Reaktor remain as a simple instrument track.
Now all things are fine, BUT i don't know why?
Any idea?

if you add a couple of bars "pre-roll" before the song proper starts, does that help?

pwal


if you add a couple of bars "pre-roll" before the song proper starts, does that help?

At the moment, as i said, with the "divided" simple instrument track into midi and audio track, i haven't this problem anymore.
But you're right, normally i add a couple of bars "pre roll" in all my songs as well , but this time, its inly one bar pre roll, let me check...

Hello,
sadly, i've got no feedback by Cakewalk until now.
Meanwhile, i found out ONE causer, the Drum Map!
If i use a drum map in the MIdi Output, i got two problems
1. All other VSTis are silent, and the Drums are totally out of sync in the
    project.
2. Freeze option on the VSTi with Drum map in the output is not possible.

So, i think this is big bug.
Anyone confirm this?

@Cakewalk Support, is this behavior known?
As i wrote i got no feedback from my ticket.

regards
whitealbum

pwal


did the ticket status change?

 
Until now, i've got always a feedback by technical support.
To be honest, i don't know, where can i take a look at the ticket status?
 

pwal


in the original email from the problem reporter, there is a link to view the ticket status

I didn't fill out a problem report, i created a ticket.
With ticket support you got no ticket status.
If the support doesn't reply, you have no chance to react again.
 
EDIT: Meanwhile i've created a problem report to Cakewalk. Thanks pwal for this info :-)

News!
Now, the problem is clear.
I've got an answer from Cakewalk Support.
 
The cause of Weird Audio-/Midi sync problems:
using Drum maps.
This feature has not been altered or updated for a few versions.
 
Sadly, i'm using drum maps very often.
 
Support told me, as a workaround, to use the Piano Roll view with specific drum parts instead of note names open up a Session Drummer Softsynth and the pane should change to drum hits instead of note values.
Then, i can right click in that area and import instrument definition to there to see all the different note names and their associated MIDI values.  My problem is, i don't know how to create instrument definitions (yes, rtfm
Is anybody using PRV for drums?
Any other ideas?
Thanks