Weirdness I just noticed

it only happens when I dont want it to

Is this an Instrument Track? I've never encountered anything like it in a normal MIDI track/clip, and can't reproduce it now. But it could be an Instrument Track bug of some sort. Also, its' not clear whether you are using Groove Clip Looping to roll out copies of the original clip, or Ctrl-dragging to create linked copies. Either way should work; just trying to understand the circumstances better.

But until you can reproduce this problem consistently, it's going to be virtually impossible for anyone to help. 

Ill try to explain what else I have going on.........

I am using layers, and I am pretty used to using them as I have for a long time now and always aware of double layering somthing.

The way I am doing things here is dragin and droping midi files from guru into my midi track. As I find gurus step sequencer a lot better to use.

So I simply draw in my notes in gurus sequencer, and then drag and drop into sonar. This has always been the way I have done it for at least 2 years now and never had this issue.

I just attempted to play around a little with my track. What I am noticing is that once I drag and drop my midi clip into sonar (say for example a 4 bar clip ) Then whatever notes I decide to add to that clip in the piano roll in sonar later on do not get copy pasted when I drag copy that clip.

The only data that is copied is the original drum hits that I drew in from guru.


Example....

Inside gurus step sequencer I draw this pattern................. (Just pretend these are midi notes. # = kick $ = snare  * = hats).


#                   #  
            $                      $
* * **    *  *   ** * * *

So then I drag that midi pattern into my sonar midi track. After playing it back, I decide that I may need a few extra hats filling the gaps..............So I draw them  inside sonars piano roll view.......


#                   #  
            $                      $
********************


Now I want to copy paste (not groove looping) using my favirote method of holding ctrl button and draging the clip.
When I look at the clip that is pasted, it no longer contains the extra notes I drew in the hi hat lane ??? and it is back to the original clip I dragged into sonar.But the original clip is how it is supposed to be with the extra hats ???

This is somthing I do not belive is supposed to be happening. I have used both these programs for quite a while now, and either have never noticed my missing notes before, or it has gone buggy on me !!

I am having a hard time beliving that this has always been the way it has been and I just never noticed it, as I spend a lot of time on my drum hits and would defenitly tell if my copy paste was failing me.
There is probably a few things I could try to sort this problem out...Bounce to track, bounce to clip maybe could work. Loop the clip and lenghten it that way. And so on.

But that is my last resort, as it should simply be that whatever midi data is inside the clip that is selected when I hold the ctrl button , should be excactly what is dragged and pasted right ?????

98% of the time it is. But I just cant figure this out.

Like I say, I am 100% certain I do not have layers over top of each other. And it is a midi track.

Thanks.

"
So then I drag that midi pattern into my sonar midi track. After playing it back, I decide that I may need a few extra hats filling the gaps..............So I draw them  inside sonars piano roll view.......


#                   #  
            $                      $
********************


Now I want to copy paste (not groove looping) using my favirote method of holding ctrl button and draging the clip.
When I look at the clip that is pasted, it no longer contains the extra notes I drew in the hi hat lane ??? and it is back to the original clip I dragged into sonar.But the original clip is how it is supposed to be with the extra hats ??? "

I do not source my MIDI clips from outside, I just write them in PRV, but I have this symptom happen to me on many occasions... would you please, just for the sake of humoring me, try a "rebuild layers".

Fog


just a thought..  and maybe on the wrong track... your using guru and loops are rex/rx2's?

it could be the quantise of how they were done.. if they aren't correct and you quantise the midi slices.. then sometimes it'll go over the bar..

just a thought.. also guru, does it use a different base octave compared to sonar...
if it's loops , a fair few things default at c4 .. but to me , well things are always c3.

I don't own guru, but work with loops a bit

Nah, no loops just single hits I program in.

I deleted the midi clip and tried again. It is still doing it.

I rebuilt the layers as well but still no joy. It seems to happen when I drag a midi clip into sonar, but then add extra notes in sonars piano roll.
Whatever extra notes added after I drag in the midi clip  are amazingly dissapering when I copy and paste them !!!!
This is driving me crazy !!!  What on earth has happened here ?

I even opened a fresh project to see whats going on, but copy paste works fine in the new project.

bitman


I can't help myself so... forgive me but isn't that just like a drummer?
"Play it like so: kick snare kick kick snare - ok?"

"OK"

you turn your back on them and:
kick snare kick snare

  its the new 'humanise' feature...

Well this is obviously a bug, otherwise we would be able to see two separate clips when enabling track layers (which is not the case).  Have you reported this to Cakewalk yet (Brundlefly)?

zan

bitman


I can't help myself so... forgive me but isn't that just like a drummer?
"Play it like so: kick snare kick kick snare - ok?"

"OK"

you turn your back on them and:
kick snare kick snare

its the new 'humanise' feature...

This is just stinkin' hilarious.  

brundlefly


Okay. I just reproduced this. Looks like a very simple procedural problem.

When you drop a MIDI clip into a project, all the events in it are selected. You enable Inline PRV, and draw some notes. The new notes you draw do not automatically become part of the selection. But when you turn off PRV, you don't see any difference between the selected and unselected events. You drag the clip, and only the originally selected events go with it.

All you have to do is click the modified clip once without holding the Ctrl key to select the whole clip, and then Ctrl-drag it.

Havent had a chance to try this out yet, but what your saying sounds like it is whats going on.

More importantly I forgot to add that what I am doing is actually droping another midi clip underneath that first layer of midi clips, that contains the missing hats. In this case it is not hats, but another layer of percusiion.

It sounds to me that Becuase I already am using layers in the track, those extra percussion hits I am adding underneath a preexisting "kick snare.and little bit of hats"  are all fine and good. But when I double click on the new clip i just added and draw in new hits, they are getting added to the first layer of midi notes and not my second layer which is the one I want to drag and copy.

So really it is kinda my fault, but is there a way when I am using layers that my midi notes will get drawn into the second layer and not the first ??

Well this is obviously a bug, otherwise we would be able to see two separate clips when enabling track layers (which is not the case).

I would not call this a bug. There is still only one layer in my scenario. It's just that you have a partial selection of the events in that one clip because newly drawn events do not become part of an existing selection by default.

I don't think I would necessarily want to change this behavior. For one thing, it allows you to invert the selection, and delete or modify all the events you just added to the clip without affecting the original ones. Also, if new events automatically became part of the selection as you drew them, it would be harder to see what modifications you had made.

brundlefly

Well this is obviously a bug, otherwise we would be able to see two separate clips when enabling track layers (which is not the case).

I would not call this a bug. There is still only one layer in my scenario. It's just that you have a partial selection of the events in that one clip because newly drawn events do not become part of an existing selection by default.

I don't think I would necessarily want to change this behavior. For one thing, it allows you to invert the selection, and delete or modify all the events you just added to the clip without affecting the original ones. Also, if new events automatically became part of the selection as you drew them, it would be harder to see what modifications you had made.

This is true, but it also creates confusion.  Maybe what we need to do is send Cakewalk a request to make newly created events more prominent with some kind of marking.  Actually, this would also be good for layers.  To have some kind of marking that would tell us that there's a clip (or group of clips) below the visible clip.  What do you guys think?

brundlefly

I might go for this. Maybe an icon in the corner of the uppermost layer that looks like a stack of papers or something. Or light dividing lines in the track scale area.

That's what I'm talking about.  Just something small enough that could tell us that there is a clip (or group of clips) below/underneath the top most clip.
 
It would work perfectly in this scenario because, as of now, enabling track layers doesn't show that there is another clip below.  That's why I think this is a bug, otherwise we would see two clips when enabling track layers.

OK, this is what I'm proposing.

When you bring the loop into the project, and you make changes to that loop, a new clip is created, right?  But sometimes when you drag that modified loop, there are notes left behind which is what the OP was having problems with (or am I wrong?).  Hopefully, I'm not confusing things here but it sounds to me that the best way to approach this is to be able to see the clip containing the new notes as a separate layer.  It didn't show this way when I tried it last night, but I might be wrong.

Does it make sense now?

When you bring the loop into the project, and you make changes to that loop, a new clip is created, right?

Two possible points of confusion here: First, the clips I am dropping into SONAR are not "loops" per se, just plain old .MID files, which become "clips" when dropped into SONAR. and they are not Groove Clip Looping enabled. Second, when I draw new events in them with Inline PRV enabled, I am adding events to that clip, not creating a new layer.

I do have show layers enabled. I think I am going to take some screen shots and post em up to show whats going on.

If you don't see multiple lanes when Show layers is enabled, I think it's simply because there is only one layer in the track. This takes us back to my original assertion that layers are not involved. What you're having trouble with are "partial selections" in a single layer/clip.

Edit: Changed my first reference to "layers" to "lanes". "Show Layers" really means "Show Layers In Separate Lanes".

Oppps

http://s902.photobucket.c...view&current=1.jpg

Here just click the link will be easier