Helpful ReplyWell, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements?

Author
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6348
  • Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
  • Location: London ON
  • Status: offline
2012/05/22 21:27:08 (permalink)

Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements?

Now, having figured out, roughly, what the above terms mean, I'm on to the next conundrum, for me.

I've been perusing some articles on Soundonsound about arranging and have basically come to realize that I do really need to understand what arranging actually is and how it works in my pieces...you see, a big part of my issue is that I am not all that confident in my so-called music reading abilities to know how I could do this kind of thing.

So, having gone and said this...what kinds of resources are there for a complete dimbulb like me...???

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
#1
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6783
  • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 21:36:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I've been referring to this thread a lot lately, but I don't think I could say anything about this that puts it more eloquently than this excellent post: http://forum.cockos.com/s...p=428185&postcount=139

http://johntatlockaudio.com/
Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
#2
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 21:44:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Sonar is an excellent resource to practise arranging.

Create a simple melody line with verse, chorus, link and break segments as midi clips.
Create matching harmony parts.
Create several (or lots) of tracks with different synths on them.

Drag/drop the clips around different tracks, cut up the clips, duplicate them, switch the melody between different tracks to change the sound, repeat sections...

Learn what happens to the 'feel' of a tune just by changing the amount voices up or down,  experiment with mixing different voices together,  learn the difference between 'lead' voices and 'pad' voices and where to use them.

That's arranging.  Arranging is fun.

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#3
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 22:05:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpful

I made this little chord gadget with the help of Jose a few years ago. I use it to make up stuff on the spot for fun and study.


best regards,
mike




#4
Chappel
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2300
  • Joined: 2009/07/11 14:55:32
  • Location: California
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 22:12:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Another thing regarding arranging is chords. What note on the bottom? What note on the top? Double the root? Leave out the root? Double the third? How a chord is spelled (which notes are in the chord and the order they are in) has a lot to do with how the chord sounds. If the melody has certain notes in it, do you need those notes in the chord? You can play block chords and get one sound, but you can get so many other sounds when you start juggling those chord tones around.

Then there is Voice Leading. How one chord moves to another chord. Keep it simple or put melody/melodies in the movement of the chord tones. Yes, it does make a difference. If there was one aspect of arranging I would suggest doing a bit of research on, it would be voice leading.
#5
Danny Danzi
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 5810
  • Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
  • Location: DanziLand, NJ
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 22:22:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
trimph1


Now, having figured out, roughly, what the above terms mean, I'm on to the next conundrum, for me.

I've been perusing some articles on Soundonsound about arranging and have basically come to realize that I do really need to understand what arranging actually is and how it works in my pieces...you see, a big part of my issue is that I am not all that confident in my so-called music reading abilities to know how I could do this kind of thing.

So, having gone and said this...what kinds of resources are there for a complete dimbulb like me...???

The cool thing about songwriting trimph, is there are no rules really. Arrangements to me are the chapters in a book. You know how I mentioned in the other thread that my guitar solos always have a beginning, a middle, a climax and an end? Same deal with my arrangements. However, sometimes you may alter "the formula" so to speak...other times there IS no formula...you just write things and try to glue them together.
 
Let's try to come up with a basic formula for you right now that you can try to use and see if you can come up with something from it, ok?
 
I'm sure you have a few riffs or ideas you may have been toying with. Does one of them stick out to you as "the hook" or the main theme of the song? If so, this part could be your "chorus". You have choices here. You can take the Kansas approach for example say...Carry on Wayward Son. The hook was what they started the song with...then they went into a riff, then a verse.
 
Or, you could start with a riff, then into a verse, then a pre-chorus which is sort of like the "get ready for the chorus" part. But it's always different. You may want to do a verse right into a chorus and then a band riff or something or a small solo section for a sax or piano...then back into your next verse.
 
In your verses, you tell your story. In your pre-chorus you set them up for your chorus and lead them into it...for your chorus you feed the main line of the song. A bridge before or after a solo section (if needed) can be the resolve of a chorus or a part that just sort of breaks the monotony.
 
For example, in some of my songs, lets say a love song...I'd tell the story in the verses, build up the pre chorus for the chorus and hit with the main line. At some point, if I add a bridge that part is usually a resolve. Like say I've been crying through the song due to a broken heart all through it. The bridge is usually me getting stronger, wiping away my tears, telling her to kiss off and I hit with an aggressive guitar solo. Then back into the chorus, maybe a power riff with the band and then end.
 
But it's always different. Think of the song as a story and your arrangement helps you to write the story based on your moods. You may have a song that starts out mellow and in a minor key to paint a picture. It may pump up a bit and wind up major and happy once you get the sad stuff off your chest in the song. See, each mood and piece you glue together, is a chapter. Like I said...beginning, middle, climax, end....like a story...or a movie.
 
That's just one formula. You don't have to use any formulas at all...you can just go off the cuff and experiment with different parts and see how they sound when you glue them together. Sometimes people over-think this stuff. Just go with the flow brother and throw a few things together. You'll know if they work or not. You just feel something when you know you've made the right decisions...and you definitely know when you've made some wrong ones. LOL! Hope this helps. :)
 
P.S. The Matrix in Sonar is an awesome tool for this. Any time you get a new riff or something in your head, log it and save it to a folder. Over time, this folder fills up with cool ideas. When you have a fair amount, open up Sonar, and put the pieces into The Matrix. This way you can just drag and drop and put them in different orders to see what may work and what may not. I wrote many songs using this method.
 
As a matter of fact, remember my version of The Coffee House Band's "Countdown to Insanity"? That whole thing was written in sections as an experiment. I recorded ideas that I liked and then brought them into The Matrix and messed around with them until I came up with the arrangement I liked best using the parts I had created as well as the parts the band had created.
 
Once I had it the way I wanted it, I had it glue the whole thing together as a song, and that was my template to record from. I still did it in section because of trying so many different things, but the matrix really helped me there and has helped me several times due to how it just lets me drag and drop as well as reverse orders or put things in between etc. Definitely a cool tool that doesn't get as much recognition as it deserves in my opinion. :)
 
-Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/05/22 22:25:38

My Site
Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
#6
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re:Well, I Got What Loudness/Dynamics Involves...Now What About Arrangements? 2012/05/22 23:03:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
It seems the most of the talk above is about arranging parts of the song.  I think of arrangement of a sonic palette - which instruments or sounds are used and how they fill the aural soundscape.  I think of it as balance.  A lot of this "arrangement" is information that we know instinctively but have never been ID'ed or talked about and made concrete.

Like how it is natural to balance out legato parts w/ stacatto, so that if the guitar is playing strummed chords the bass player plucks the notes.  Conversely, if the guitarist is picking the rhythm the bass player probably should let his notes ring.  If you introduce a lead element that is high pitched, the next instrument you add should be lower pitched (either simultaneously or the following lead).  These are a couple of natural rules, but unless you think about it (and discuss w/ others in the band) it is something you just stumble into while developing a song rather than the checking it during the progress.

@

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#7
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1