Helpful ReplyWell, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths

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sharke
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2018/01/20 04:43:29 (permalink)

Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths

I've seen various weird stuff happen with synths after they've been turned off for a while in the synth rack and then turned back on at a later date. Many times Sonar has reloaded the synth with some aspect of the preset screwed up. This one takes the cake though - I just turned on an instance of Kontakt with Strummed Acoustic loaded to go back and reconfigure the sound. This is what I was greeted with: 
 

 
It's completely screwed and does not work at all. Anyone else seen this with Kontakt in Sonar? 
 
Now the sound I had is totally gone. Cheers Sonar me old pal 

James
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#1
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 05:04:15 (permalink)
?
Had a party tonight till 4am and it was the old addictive Keys, AD drums and Kontakt vintage keys. No issues whatsoever..

On Studio One.
#2
SF_Green
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 05:05:31 (permalink)
Hi Sharke,
 
That's a new one on me, and I use Kontakt quite a bit and for many years now. Although, I play guitar so I don't use Session Guitar, so that could be a factor.  Have you seen it with other libraries/instruments?
 
The way you describe it, sounds like it could be some sort of temp file corruption?

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#3
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 05:31:35 (permalink)
I play guitar too but I've never been able to eliminate fan noise from my recordings sufficiently for my tastes. Shame, I have some good mics. 
 
I haven't seen this with other instruments, and in fact I haven't seen it with Strummed Acoustic either. I have however had problems with "waking up" sleeping synths in the synth rack before. I don't know what Sonar does to them when you turn them off (or back on) but there is definitely something going on there. I've heard other people say they've had problems with synth settings being destroyed or vandalized when they've turned them back on. 

James
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#4
SF_Green
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 06:07:40 (permalink)
Sounds pretty bizarre.  I wonder what the factor is that makes it happen to some people and not others?  Win 10 v 7?  Intel v. AMD? Phase of the moon?  Software can drive you crazy sometimes!
 
Luckily, these don't do that to me...
 

 
 

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#5
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 07:40:06 (permalink)
Who knows. But I have some large projects I really need to finish in Sonar and a plethora of annoying crap like this is really making it difficult. 

James
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#6
Songroom
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 09:09:27 (permalink)
I've never seen this on my system and I often use NI Strummed Acoustic (versions 1 & 2)  to lay down temporary backing tracks prior to getting a vocalist in. This is useful as I can instantly transpose the part if needed.
 
Saying that, I don't usually switch Kontakt off in the synth rack. I'll give it a try later today and see if I can recreate the issue.
 
 

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#7
BRainbow
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 11:12:41 (permalink)
You have to switch the interface language all the way from Martian to English.  Looks like you have the dial only about half-way.

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#8
Rasure
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 11:31:20 (permalink)
I've recently seen this type of behavior with Stylus RMX too, the graphics get all messed up. Only happens in Sonar!
 


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#9
paulo
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 11:44:46 (permalink)
I always freeze rather than turn off synths (don't know if that actually makes any difference, it's just what I do).
 
The only issue that seems to occur with that particular synth is that the sound preset seems to always revert to it's default when unfrozen, so I have to remember to re-select the sound it should be before re-freezing. I've never used it that much so always assumed that it was something I was doing wrong as I've never seen it happen with any other synth other than the odd demo, which are crippled deliberately.
 
Stating the obvious maybe, but sometimes we all overlook the obvious, does this also happen in your back up copy?
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Piotr
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 12:37:33 (permalink)
James, have you tried to replace graphic driver? I think Sonar is not directly responsible for plugin redraw.

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msmcleod
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 13:05:07 (permalink)
Piotr
James, have you tried to replace graphic driver? I think Sonar is not directly responsible for plugin redraw.


I've had similar problems with Kontakt and also Jamstix 4 when running Sonar on my laptop.
 
The issue turned out to be some conflict between the NVIDIA graphics card and the internal Intel graphics card.
 
Once I forced Sonar to ONLY use the Intel graphics, all the problems went away.
 
M.
#12
mettelus
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 15:31:21 (permalink)
I cannot remember exactly, but wasn't DPI scaling added to SONAR at some point? Some of that looks like a redraw error from a non-default DPI, but I would not expect that to affect the text at all. The text weirdness leads me to believe that there might be an issue with the CWP file itself, like SONAR passed a preset to it, but was corrupted.

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#13
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 17:01:48 (permalink)
Rasure's issue above looks exactly the same. It looks to me like an issue with rendering UI's that have tabbed windows - graphical elements from multiple tabs are appearing together. 
 
I keep my drivers up to date all the time. In addition to this, if I load a fresh instance of Kontakt with Strummed Acoustic in the same project, it's fine. The broken instance was fine before I turned it off in the synth rack. I'm sure that there are still issues with the synth rack - I've always used it a lot, and there used to be a ton of instability and weirdness associated with turning synths on and off. I think Noel did a lot of work to improve it at some point, which did seem to fix the problems with Sonar crashing or freezing when toggling synths, but it seems that there still may be some problems. 

James
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 17:46:06 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
?
Had a party tonight till 4am and it was the old addictive Keys, AD drums and Kontakt vintage keys. No issues whatsoever..

On Studio One.



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#15
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 17:47:22 (permalink)
Native Instruments seem to be moving their plugins towards more modern OpenGL libraries, I would not be surprised at all if it is related.

You could try removal of the display adapter driver reboot and reinstall. If you have Nvidia I think you can also Google up a utility that will also search for old DLL's and registry entries (full cleanup after uninstall). May be similar utils for other cards around.
#16
pwalpwal
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 18:28:46 (permalink)
bot

just a sec

#17
KAV
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 18:32:51 (permalink)
I can reproduce the graphics problem by inserting a Kontakt instance without letting SONAR create any output tracks for it and then adding Strummed Acoustic. The GUI is messed up as shown in the OP, but as soon as I assign an output track to any of the Kontakt instance's outputs in SONAR, the GUI automagically fixes itself and stays fixed even if I later delete the output track.
 
I've seen similar odd GUI behaviour in other Kontakt instruments too when no output tracks are defined. For example, Scarbee Rickenbacker's menus are all but unusable in my setup until I assign an output track to the Kontakt instance. It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's how it appears to be.
 
I have no idea though why it would happen when a synth is reconnected or unfrozen nor how to fix it easily, sorry.

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#18
AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 18:50:30 (permalink)
happens all the time to me.  maybe its for the best this product is now in the garbage... where it belongs.
#19
Anderton
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:00:23 (permalink)
What happens if you delete the old instance and insert a new instance with the same preset? I don't have these problems and I use Kontakt a lot. However, I'm still on Komplete 9.
 
 

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Rbh
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:12:04 (permalink)
I would say that I have constant issues with NI - . None with Sonar.... to the Sonar whiners ( I highly recommend that you delete everything Sonar on your system ). Then wander off. Most likely a Garbage in - Garbage out situation.

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#21
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:15:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/01/20 19:25:00
^^
LOL. Technical problem can be resolved because one brand better than other. Glad that is resolved then ;). Oh the fanboys... must not see their product ""insulted""! Because products they like are perfect everybody else dumb or trolls.
#22
msmcleod
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:22:50 (permalink)
This is definitely a problem with Synth Rack, and it only seems to happen if there's no associated Instrument track.
 
Steps to reproduce:
  1. Start a blank project
  2. Add MIDI track
  3. Add Kontakt 5 via Synth Rack (which also creates an associated instrument track)
  4. Set the MIDI track to output to Kontakt
  5. Delete the Kontakt 5 instrument track (leaving Kontakt in the synth rack, with the MIDI track connected to it).
  6. Open the Kontakt GUI
  7. Insert Grandeur
  8. Insert Strummed Accoustic.... messed up GUI.
However, if you leave the original Instrument track intact (i.e. skip step 4), everything is OK.
 
Interestingly enough, forcing it to load via JBridge doesn't fix this issue either, even with Force GUI Refresh and Separate GUI mode enabled.
 
M.
#23
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:27:47 (permalink)
Anderton
What happens if you delete the old instance and insert a new instance with the same preset? I don't have these problems and I use Kontakt a lot. However, I'm still on Komplete 9.
 
 




If I insert a new instance of Kontakt, I can load Strummed Acoustic properly. However if I close the corrupt instance of Strummed Acoustic (within Kontakt)  and try to open it again in the same "corrupt" instance of Kontakt, it loads garbled as before. 

James
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#24
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:29:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexSHere 2018/01/20 20:36:36
Rbh
I would say that I have constant issues with NI - . None with Sonar.... to the Sonar whiners ( I highly recommend that you delete everything Sonar on your system ). Then wander off. Most likely a Garbage in - Garbage out situation.


CakeAlexSHere
^^
LOL. Technical problem can be resolved because one brand better than other. Glad that is resolved then ;). Oh the fanboys... must not see their product ""insulted""! Because products they like are perfect everybody else dumb or trolls.


Yeah I'm blocking all the "if you're not going to rave endlessly about Sonar then why are you here" idiots from this point. They're just a minor irritation, easily fixed. 



James
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#25
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 19:30:00 (permalink)
Good to know it's reproducible though, thanks. 
 

James
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#26
msmcleod
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/20 20:02:23 (permalink)
Ok, I've found a fix for this.
 
The bug arises when the original instrument track is missing, so the trick is to try and recreate it.
 
So with the messed up GUI version still there, I did the following:
  1. Insert a new Audio track, set the Input to Kontakt 5 stereo 1
  2. Insert a new MIDI track, set it's output to Kontakt 5
  3. Select both tracks, then right-click->Make Instrument Track
 
Now when you open the GUI, Strummed Acoustic is back to normal.
 
What you can now do is Hide the new instrument track you've created, so you don't accidentally delete it.
 
Hope this helps!
 
M.
#27
sharke
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/21 00:18:29 (permalink)
msmcleod
Ok, I've found a fix for this.
 
The bug arises when the original instrument track is missing, so the trick is to try and recreate it.
 
So with the messed up GUI version still there, I did the following:
  1. Insert a new Audio track, set the Input to Kontakt 5 stereo 1
  2. Insert a new MIDI track, set it's output to Kontakt 5
  3. Select both tracks, then right-click->Make Instrument Track
 
Now when you open the GUI, Strummed Acoustic is back to normal.
 
What you can now do is Hide the new instrument track you've created, so you don't accidentally delete it.
 
Hope this helps!
 
M.




Yep this worked, thanks. Although all I had to do was connect an audio track to Kontakt and the display was immediately fixed. What a weird issue. Unfortunately though, as has happened to me many times before, Sonar has completely hosed the settings that I had in Strummed Acoustic. Back to square one!
 
It's also worth noting that the original MIDI track that I had used for this synth, which I had archived and hidden, is now missing from the track manager. Totally gone. This has happened to me lots of times before as well (and someone else reported the same thing not so long ago too). 

James
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#28
Anderton
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/21 00:23:43 (permalink)
SF_Green
I wonder what the factor is that makes it happen to some people and not others?

 
Based on msmcleod's fix, they probably don't delete instrument tracks for a synth that's still in the rack. I don't, so I haven't had problems. Then again, I don't use Simple Instrument tracks, which may have something to do with my not having issues.
 

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#29
Anderton
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Re: Well, once again, Sonar has destroyed one of my synths 2018/01/21 00:28:05 (permalink)
sharke
Unfortunately though, as has happened to me many times before, Sonar has completely hosed the settings that I had in Strummed Acoustic. Back to square one!



I highly recommend saving any presets for plug-ins if you're not in the habit of rendering audio. I was checking out a lot of old projects lately to decide what to delete. There were, as expected, issues with trying to load 32-bit plug-ins into what is now a 64-bit system. However for those plug-ins where I had updated versions, so far all of them have been able to load any saved presets for the 32-bit plug-ins into the 64-bit plug-ins.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#30
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