Welp... my new studio room is arse for monitoring. Ugh.

Not that any of my previous rooms were particularly great but this one seems to give very odd reflections and boxiness/boominess. Looks like the VRM box I've been desperately trying to fit into my budget is going to have to come sooner than later and I'm definitely going to have to snag some monitor stands to at least get my monitors projecting closer to ear level which should help somewhat. I don't really mind mixing through headphones but it definitely is causing me more ear fatigue than I would get using the monitors.
 
For now I've draped a small fleece blanket on the wall behind the monitors and that seems to have helped cut down the "boxy" sound a bit but I think having them so close to the wall (my desk/table isn't very deep although I've got the Mackie recommended five inches away from the wall) and the fact I am so ridiculously tall that the monitors are basically pointing at my moobs (I don't actually have moobs (yet) but if I did that's where they'd be pointing). Even if I got some stands I think the bleedin' things would still only be pointing at around should height.
 
It's all very annoying but at least it seems when I close the door to that room not much noise escapes it the rest of the unit which is good because the sound proofing between units here is horrendous and I really don't like people listening to my squawking as I work out vocal parts and the like. This room is the only part of the apartment that doesn't share a wall with any neighbors... only the upstairs neighbor who doesn't seem to use that adjoining room at the times I do my work and perhaps whatever is downstairs but I think that actually is the outdoors walkup to the building and the floors are better insulated than the walls anyway.
 
This has nothing to do with nothing and probably has no place in this sub forum but I had a little rant to get out and this is where most of my buds are. Perhaps looking for diy and FREE possible solutions to minimize the crummy listening room blues... both inside and outside the box.
 
One thing I may try is tossing reference tracks into projects to get my ears used to the crummy room then compare my own mixes to that. Like let's say I'm doing a metal song and import a newer Slayer tune with all their sweet production values then kind of work around that.
 
Seriously though I gotta get that VRM box. It can no longer wait if this is how things are here... and no... unfortunately ARC is out of the question due to price and frankly I don't think even that piece of kit could get a room like this under control.
 
Anyway, soory for the rant, thanks for listening and now I'm off to get a snare under control... in my headphones of course. ;-p

Teds_Studio
Hey Beep,
Once you get your monitors at the right ear level...you might consider trying to tune your listening environment with an RTA (placed at ear position).....and a stereo 31 band EQ connected between your mains audio out and your speaker power amp (or speakers if they are self powered).
 

Howdy. Thanks for the suggestions. I don't really know what you are talking about but with the terms used I could probably do the research.
 
I think if I can get the speakers of the desk at ear level that will make a huge difference but I'd still only use them as kind of an extra listening source instead of a proper monitoring set up. I have two full stereos, multiple sets of powered computer speakers, MANY sets of consumer grade and semi pro grade headphones on top of my studio grade Senn HD's and as I said I intend to get a VRM box to boot. So I've got tons of checking options but unfortunately I think I just have to resign myself to the fact that my Mackie's will have to just be my high quality set of speakers for mix checking as opposed to true reference monitors for mixing.
 
Perhaps overcoming obstacles like this at this phase in my "career" will help me become a better engineer. Then again it might "ruin" my ears for proper environments and I continue being a terrible hack. lol
 
Either way... gotta push on no matter what the barrier, eh? I'm certainly not the first guy to be in this position and refuse to let it stop me.
 
Cheers.

Hey Beeps,
You may want to try building some broadband absorption panels. It'd be good for the listening environment and good for the neighbors. There are a lots of plans out there...google DIY bass trap, or just start here: http://www.radford.edu/~shelm/acoustics/bass-traps.html
 
Dean

you can make some pretty decent bass traps merely by wrapping some Owens-Corning 703 type material in some fabric like a thrift store sheet.  It's pretty sturdy as-is, without any frame whatsoever.
 
what shape and how big is your room?  If it's a 10 foot cube there's not a lot you can do to fix it, really.  You can start to understand what frequencies are off where you sit, and try to adjust accordingly. 

Thanks for all the resources guys. Won't be able to do much any time soon as far as constructing or buying anything like that but I definitely need to start getting my head moving in that direction. I think for now the best thing I could probably do is just try to deaden the room as much as possible so at least even if it's not "tuned" I'm taking a bunch of the reflections out the equation.
 
As far as getting these speaker up higher as an immediate solution I may just stack up a bunch of books and set them atop those. It's funny... today I tried squatting down so my ears were in the right spot and it was like night and day. I new these were nearfields but it's amazing HOW hyper directional they are.
 
And about hanging them from the ceiling you guys may get a kick out of this. I've often thought of getting my mom or aunt or someone to crochet me one of those knitted slings that people put potted plants in... but made just right for the speakers. lol
 
Not sure how I'd keep them from swinging around though so I just kind of put that into the quirky idea bin.

Here's another resource for you when you have the time to check it out: http://www.atsacoustics.com/
 
I got 4 of their 24" x 36" x 2" panels and 1 of the 24" x 36" x 4" panel and the combination made a very big difference in the sound of my room.  The 2" panels are only $37 each so it won't break the bank.
 
I have a pretty square room of about 13x13x9 tall with my "studio" setup in the corner.  There is an open doorway in the opposite corner behind me.  I've got 2 Yamaha MSP5 monitors and a subwoofer (I think it's mAudio) and the combo sounds great and translates pretty well when I do my mixes and compare to the car and other places.
 
Anyway, here's a shot of that space where you can see two of the thinner panels and the thick panel in the corner as a trap:
 

 
Hope this info helps in some way.

I would assume VRM is a good "in addition to" some basic room treatment.  I feel like I have a decent setup in my little studio thanks to some simple additions from http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com.  Those guys are great and know their stuff.
 
Despite getting the room treatment to a satisfactory level, my interest in VRM by focusrite is certainly peeked in order to "double check"... the safety net mentality.

Does anyone here know if the VRM can work directly from within Sonar (X3), or would you need to export an audio file, open it in the VRM software check it and then go back into Sonar and tweak?  Not worth it for me if I need to do the extra hoop-jumping, but certainly worth a look if I could do it from within Sonar!

If you want to raise your monitors, instead of using books, grab yourself a few concrete paving slabs.
 
Their mass will also help to decouple the monitors from the floor

All the acoustic treatment advice is good, but before you tackle any of that the first step should be taking objective measurements to identify exactly where your problems lie. This'll fit right into your budget, because it costs nothing.
 
All you need is some free software called Room EQ Wizard (REW) and an omnidirectional microphone. Here's a link to the software, and here's a tutorial on using it.

Beep,
 
as you've already devine, the 1st thing to do is get the speakers in the optimum position.  Raise them up so your nearfields have unimpeded access to your ears.  A world of difference.  Books, stands, bricks, whatever.  The heavier the better.
 
+1 on Bit's suggestion. 
 
But the second cheap thing to do is dampen the area behind you, to attenuate those reflections coming from behind you.  The standard SOS suggesion for singing is to hang a duvet (quilt) behind your position.
 
Another cheap thing to do is make some bass traps.  If you are like me, putting together frames is another skill you might not want or have time to learn.  You should be able to find burlap bags for dirt cheap.  At the farm store I picked up a couple of big burlap bag - the ones I got were stamped for coffee.  They were 2-3 dollars each.  Pick up some corning (pretty cheap too) and just lay it in the bag, fold the top and staple it closed (you don't want the itchy stuff floating around).  You can put those up on the walls/ceiling etc.
 
Even a special built room and tuned is a compromise.  Turning a spare apt. room into a recording space is even more of a compromise, but it doesn't (usually) mean having to put up w/ a bad room.  You can get most room acceptable with a little aborption and reflection if you use nearfields.
 
@
 

Guys, just stopping in to thank you for the suggestions. I am totally burnt today but I have been reading this all and getting ideas. I'll give more details when my brain is working a little better.
 
For now though I've got a couple solutions I think I can do with what I have in the apartment. I measured one set of stereo speakers I have and if I line the back of my desk/table with them they will give the monitors a significant height increase and with a book or two under them they should be at the right height. Also by doing this I can get my flat panel screen up to a proper height as well (I really am ridiculously tall... seriously it's a problem when dealing with this type of thing) and have a second set of speakers if I set up one of my power amps (which I needed to do anyway). The fleece blanket pinned to the wall has helped with the reflections a bit but because of some of the suggestions here I think I may also pin/staple some old t-shirts underneath it directly behind the monitors as well to absorb even more sound coming straight out the vents. As far as separating them from the floor this is a polymer folding table so there are only four small contact points to the floor and I have a carpet underneath it. I also use small custom cut pieces of insulating rubber flooring underlay (the nice stuff type you'd use under wood laminate) under the monitors to absorb vibration. The sound really doesn't travel to the floor at all as far as I can tell.
 
Aside from that I've already concocted all sorts of weird draping type scenarios and stuff but they will require curtain rods and material. I've found panels of film blacks which are pretty slick for doing this type of thing on amazon and elsewhere for decent prices but that's dough as are building traps/baffles... and I have very little of. I'll probably just keep trying to deaden the room as much as possible with whatever I can get my hands on. It's a small room and I've got it crammed with gear so even if I can just cover stuff with blankets that might help.
 
I could try to say more but man... I'm spent. 2 hours sleep makes Beepster crazy/stoopid. :-/
 
Thanks again.

Here's the link
http://www.nextacoustics..m/mofo-rizer-sample-kit/

Understand. Go get some sleep!

Del

John T
If you've got no budget to work with, attention to the basics can work small miracles. Are your tweeters at ear level? Are your speakers firing down the length of the room, rather than the width? Is your listening position in an equilateral triangle with the speakers? Do you have something (anything!) acoustically absorbent at the ear level reflection points from the listening position?

I may have missed this somehow, but I don't think you've said what the dimensions of the room are...?
 

John T
Your advice about the speaker position in relationship to the room dimensions are right on, as well as the listening position being in an equilateral  triangle(very, very important!).
 
Also mentioned here is another very good point: and that is NOT being setup in a corner of a room as a listening or mixing position! I ran that way for years until I read somewhere (sorry I can't remember where) where that is a BIG, BIG ....NO, NO as to where you want to be listening to your music.
 
After I changed my listening position, the amount of issues that I had while listening greatly diminished.
My listening position is now setup on the long dimension of the room and away from the back wall about 
a third of the long dimension. Hope that , that makes some sense.

 
This works for me.
Walt