Hello,
I have to say that I am not so much underwhelmed... But if that is the case, for me that is a good thing.. It means that I am not spending time dealing with bugs.  It means that I get to continue my progression from a stable platform to another stable platform in that I can focus on music production and not "instability".  It means that instead of getting a "Big Christmas" with lots of "gifts, I get a few quality gifts that carry more productive weight. 
 
Underwhelmed, Could be accurate... Ok...thanks.. Much better than frustrated, crash prone, dead in the water and out of  a 150 beans....For that I am grateful... And looking forward to the other stuff.... My two pence.....

John

yevster
Before or after the C & D updates? And have you never had FX tails in the beginning of your exported mixes? Or random midi events transmitted to all your softsynths?

I have the buffer issue  that you call tails. I have never had any random events going to anything. The buffer thing can be deleted or cut from the mix. 

 I answered the audio buffer issue in a different thread. Random MIDI events - nope. 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Well its tricky to compare since we have changed the product model to be one of continuous enhancement.
For one if we were releasing under the old model, you would have seen a couple more features baked in (drum replacer and the touch kbd for one) out of the gate and a few patches. If you take those into account its certainly pretty much on par with the feature count in X3.
However now for the same cost you will now get those features and a whole bunch of features we already have planned for the year. 
Also another point to make is X3 added support for two standards - ARA and VST3. We pick stuff like that carefully since it requires years of maintenance. Surely you don't expect us to add new standards every year :) The new SONAR includes enhancements to both those standards. You will hear more about it when the upcoming features are unveiled.
Additionally some users would argue that they want more improvements than new features. We focused on these requests as well and improved stability and workflow.
 
To summarize you aren't getting less at all and the next few months will prove it.
 

Are you working on a mastering suite and/or chord track?

...wicked
 
 
This. 8.5 was a monster upgrade
 

How things change! When 8.5 first dropped, people on this forum were infuriated that CW was charging for a point upgrade. And no rehashing of all the new features calmed the furor.

tbh... for a computer musician, i can't think of a better way to spend $99 a year (Sonar Professional), very reasonable. Concerning the new REmatrix plugin, the Sony hardware equivalent back in 1998 was $7500, dig me? We are in such a powerful and fortunate position these days, it's quite incredible, and the thing is if you get disgruntled for whatever reason, there's another DAW company just around the corner happy to offer you basically the same thing that may be more to your liking. Anyone remember the Roland VS880 hardware digital recorder? It was $4000 here, and yet what did it offer, sweet nothing. 

yevster

...wicked
 
 
This. 8.5 was a monster upgrade
 

How things change! When 8.5 first dropped, people on this forum were infuriated that CW was charging for a point upgrade. And no rehashing of all the new features calmed the furor.

Ever heard of CWPA 8?  The internet was more than "around" by then.  I'm sure they're are references here about the coincidence of Sonar 8 being released and basically being lauded by one hand clapping.
 
8.5 was worth absolutely any amount spent by anyone who'd ever bought a CW product.  No small feat.
 
X1 couldn't have been released without it IMHO.  I do feel the same way about X3 because you really need a stable platform before you can jump to the next "model".

kson
 
Are you working on a mastering suite and/or chord track?

I already created my own songwriter-centric Chord Track solution. I actually have a couple variations on the process, and showed them to Cakewalk a few months ago. Let's just say they paid attention.
 
It's what I used to write the songs New Day and Daughter on my YouTube channel. For New Day, I didn't even replace the scratch chord track that was generated...just threw an amp sim on it. You can probably guess what kind of amp sim that might be if you've checked the new features in Platinum.
 
As to a "mastering suite," it depends on what you mean, and you need to be realistic. If you want restoration, iZotope's basic version of RX4 is $300 and the advanced version is $1,000. Their basic Ozone mastering suite is $250 and their advanced version is $750.
 
So yes, SONAR could build an iZotope-level mastering suite with restoration into SONAR by having it cost $2,250 instead of $500. Why force people to pay that much for something they may not want or need? They can buy either of the iZotope products, use them in SONAR, and get world-class mastering software. That's the beauty of plug-ins.
 
That said, I already do quite a bit of mastering in SONAR (also, few people seem to know you can cut and paste individual samples to do restoration of digital overloads) and I don't think it would take all that much effort for CW to take it up another  level. That's up to them. Then again, based on a lot of the music I hear these days, a "mastering suite" consists of a Waves L3 and someone who knows how to turn the reduction slider to -15 dB and the ceiling to 0.01 
 
 

dcumpian
While Craig is only half kidding, you can get a lot of mastering done in Sonar with a good linear phase multiband compressor, a good surgical EQ, a good character EQ, a decent saturation plugin, a smooth-sounding exciter and finally, a limiter. Many of these already come with Sonar.

 
And you can also do multiband loudness maximization to either a subtle or absurd degree. What makes a "mastering suite" are the tools available to do mastering, not something with a label on it that says "mastering suite."

 
 

Drone7

dcumpian
A lot of mastering is done in Sonar with a good linear phase multiband compressor, a good surgical EQ, a good character EQ, a decent saturation plugin, a smooth-sounding exciter and finally, a limiter. Many of these already come with Sonar.
 
And for the record, the L3 kind of sucks on a whole mix. The L2 is much more transparent, lol.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

You forgot to include a "Stereo Widener", which many do use, including myself; if it is used modestly and within reason it does certainly have relevance for a quality final master. Also depends on the 'quality' of the stereo widener, as some of them cause defects in stereo imaging too severely. As far as an all-in-one "Mastering Plugin", i find Ozone 6 to be exemplary, and the results are better than any of their previous versions IMO.

I used to use wideners on mixes, but I don't anymore. I find the results are much more natural by pushing individual tracks wide by using subtle delays rather than trying to widen the whole mix. I still have Waves S2 and MeldaProduction's MStereoSpread. Really useful tools, but I only use them when I have to.
 
Regards,
Dan
 
 

P-Theory
Been on platinum for a few days now and despite a few issues with melodyne and Kontakt for me, largely its been a solid release.
 
However I do feel a little short changed, certainly when compared to the joy of the X3 release.  Its clear there has been lots of back room work on things like the command centre but for everyday usage there is nothing that is really blowing me away.  With X3 we had ARA, VST3, AD, Speed Comping, Blue Tubes suite etc  in other words a whole raft of major developments and improvements.
 
The Mix recall is the only new feature that is comparable in terms of product evolution to the X3 features in my opinion. The vocal sync is cool but not earth shattering for me. I'm underwhelmed with the new audio snap, it certainly detects transients better but that's about it, it still sounds the same and offers nothing new functionality wise.  The control bar is well and good but I can't imagine ever reconfiguring again now I have done so adds nothing to daily workflow. ReMatrix and AD2 I already had so that might be swaying my outlook I admit. Expandable sends and FX are fine but just move the scrolling problem to elsewhere in the pro channel as opposed to the FX bin in my opinion.  Pattern tool I just don't get, what was wrong with control V?  PRV enhancements are better but again a little underwhelming and the midi timestretch thing I can't really see any point for in my workflow.
 
I'm not whinging, just commenting, hopefully now cake has some fresh money and subscriptions they can start rolling out killer new features as we go along.  I'd still love to see a product roadmap even though I am already a paid subscriber

I think what you're saying is valid from your personal standpoint. None of us uses the program in the same way and we all look for things that coincide with our work-flow. I've not had any Kontakt issues or Melodyne issues thankfully. This version has been pretty solid for me. As a matter of fact, I don't have any complaints at all other than I'm very upset that I can't have a dark console.
 
I know that's petty, but I think it's been a huge thing that has not been addressed yet. It's true that I haven't a clue what goes on under the hood or how hard it may be to give me a dark console color. But we're talking 4 versions here....so from a guy that hates bright colors in a console, I'll always complain about this. And when I do change a console color, it changes the clip color. I still don't understand that.
 
Anyway, that being my only issue (ok, I had hoped that one of the feature requests I put in may have made it. Any menu window like say, quantize...should be x-ray so you can see your notes move or the action take place to see if it went the way you wanted it and I so wanted a real time speed control like Reaper has) the stability of this version is pretty insane.
 
I've been beating on it with some sick projects and it's not crashed on me. I'm not an audio snap man....so see, this is where someone like me could care less. The pattern thing.....I never used it the old way, so you don't miss what you never used. PRV enhancements....staff view....all that stuff fortunately for me, doesn't matter. I look at the little dots passing by and decide whether they need to be shortened, lengthened or set to time. LOL!
 
Extra plugins, crazy configurations....eye candy....I have enough of that. What I wanted and expected from Sonar was stability that kept me in business. Thankfully X3 was never a problem for me...but again, it depends how you use the software.
 
I use Sonar like a big old tape machine. I play all my instruments in real time, so there is never a reason for me to step write (thank you God) or deal with some of the stuff everyone else has to. That said I DO feel for anyone experiencing any issues with the tools/options/features I do not use.
 
When I play my real drums, I punch in or slide to time based on my click track. When I play V-Drums or keyboard, I have no problems with the PRV as well as quantizing if I need to. When I play guitar, bass or sing, I play the part until I get it right...which may take 600 takes or more in 10-15 second intervals. I can punch in a 10 second part over and over like 30 times within 60 seconds. LOL! That's really nothing to brag about...it shows how horrible I am. BUT....I can punch in like a fool! :)
 
No issues with plugins and no blatantly obvious issues with anything else for how *I* use the software. It is my belief that the audio engine may be a bit more consistent as I'm not experiencing the drop outs I once had. I'm able to run projects at 64-128 buffers using different interfaces without a problem. One thing I have always hated was how our audio engine would drop out and I'd never experience this with other DAWs. Something seems to be better with this now.
 
As Noel mentioned about what's under the hood, that's what I believe was done here. Most of us old timers have begged for stability over features. We can't have the best DAW out there while being plagued with things that slow down or stop our workflow. I think we're NOW as good as anything out there that gets more praise. We use the latest Pro Tools in our studio as well as Sonar. The only options PT has that I like are the multi audio engine possibilities, the export speed/options, and the ability to control wave form amplitude from the wave. Other than those options, I feel Sonar obliterates it.
 
The new control bar options are way cool for me. I've been begging to have that back. The new collapse feature allows me to have everything in the CB now...I always hated that "off screen" stuff. So stupid stuff like that is actually big for me. Having been used to those options in Sonar 8.5 and below, it's nice to have some of that back now. All we need are custom colors all across the board...c'mon guys, pretty please?! :)
 
-Danny

yevster

Anderton
Did you try my suggestion about checking streaming through FX?

Nope. Tried to find it and couldn't.

 
In addition to trying Danny's tip about the 64-bit engine, here's the stream through audio FX deal.
 

 

As every other DAW seems to clear its buffers automatically before exporting, it would appear only sonar users expect their most recent playback to impact their audio export. A casual user shouldn't even have to know what a buffer is.

 
Have you really tested every other DAW?
 
When I turn off "Always Stream Audio Through FX," as soon as I click stop, any effect tails stop immediately. With it turned off, I was not able to reproduce what you described.
 
I tested as follows:
 
Loaded a clip.
Added 10 seconds of silence before its start, and extended its end with silence for about 45 seconds.
Inserted a delay set for 99% feedback.
Started playback and by enabling "Always Stream Audio Through FX," verified that the delay tail went on for at least a minute after stopping playback.
Disabled "Always Stream Audio Through FX."
Started playback and after the echo kicked in, stopped and exported the file immediately.
Played back the exported file.
There was no sound at the beginning of the exported file.
 

A casual user shouldn't even have to know what a buffer is.

 
There are several valid reasons for wanting to always stream audio through FX. According to the Help button for the Preferences screen given above, these are:
 
○  Any effect with a “tail” (reverb, delay, etc.) will finish playing when playback is stopped
○  Effects will respond to automation envelopes, even on empty audio tracks.
○  Many plug-ins do not update their UI properly until they receive audio input.
 
SONAR gives you a choice, and even casual users can benefit from studying a program's available preferences and related help files.
 
I'm not saying it's not possible to experience what you're experiencing, it's just that I can't reproduce it if "Always Stream Audio Through FX" is disabled and I follow the test procedure above. Maybe it's something else that's not in my test procedure. Please provide me with the steps to reproduce it because if I can't reproduce it, I can't evaluate whether it's a problem or merely an occasional inconvenience. It's certainly not a bug, based on any standard definition of the term.

paulo
I know it's not allowed to say it here, seems like anyone who doesn't think everythong is great is "wrong", but to me it seems that they have held back some stuff on the initial release in order to be able to deliver the promised extra features over the year.

In a way you're right, a lot of this update was for stuff happening "under the hood." However, doing that work is what makes the rollouts of additional updates and features easier over the next year. Nothing that was actually ready for release was held back.
 

As upgrades go I do feel short-changed this time

 
Hopefully you won't feel short-changed a year from now about what you received for $149.
 

especially as AD2 will not install offline, so is totally useless to me

 
Cakewalk doesn't have any control over how XLN wants to handle their products. Personally, I think it was pretty amazing (and cool) that Softube dropped the dongle for the ProChannel modules.

Initial installation.

Sanderxpander
I'm pretty sure they offered a work-around, at least with AD1 during the initial X3 release there was some discussion about it. It's getting pretty tricky to run offline DAWs for sure. Thank God I don't.

Yes there was a workaround with AD1, but not with AD2.

Anderton
 
 
Cakewalk doesn't have any control over how XLN wants to handle their products. Personally, I think it was pretty amazing (and cool) that Softube dropped the dongle for the ProChannel modules.

Yes, I understand that, but for those that won't be able to use it, it leaves the rest of the upgrade package looking pretty thin at the moment IMHO, especially as the OP question was asked in the context of last year's offering. I sincerely hope that you're right and what is to follow will in hindsight make it look like a good deal, but right now from my perspective it looks over-priced and I don't see enough to feel inclined to buy it.