cuitlahac
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What Are Stems?
Hi All! I'm sort of embarrassed to ask this question, but.....here goes! I will be taking some training in a pro studio soon and one of the options is to be able to take the session "stems" back home to my own studio where I can apparently mix, produce and master them. The idea is that then I would send my final product back to the instructor for critique. I'm thinking that this would be very enlightening. The studio is a Pro Tools shop.....is the term "stems" a Pro Tools term or file type unique to that software? If so, does anyone know if I can import it easily into SONAR X2? I'm thinkin' that this has to be referring to the raw tracks which I would assume would just be some kind of audio files? I sniffed around for a thread on the forum that might help but wasn't able to turn up anything. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Any and all commentary will be appreciated as always! Dave
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
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Beepster
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 17:52:31
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Stems are like sub mixed tracks. Let's say you have your guitars, vox, bass and drums sent to different buses. If you mixed those buses down so you have one track with all your guitars, one with all your drums, etc... those are stems. At least that's my understanding of the term.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 17:54:33
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Stems are like sub mixes. A final mix may contain guitars, vocals, keyboards, drums and percussion. The stems are the stereo mixes usually of just one area on interest such as all the guitars in a stem. All the percussion in another etc. Many tracks may be used to create a stem such as 8 percussion parts but they all get pre mixed and onto a single stereo sub mix called the Percussion stem. In the above example there would be just five stems to mix at the end. eg a guitar stem, vocal stem, keyboard stem, drum stem and percussion stem. Vocals are often separated into further stems. Lead vocals and harmony vocal stems. This means you can process those two stems differently. The stems have to be well balanced within themselves. If a stem consists of several tracks eg 8 percussion tracks, those tracks need to be well balanced feeding the stem. A complex mix can be cut down to just a fewer number of stems. If you don't like the way a stem is mixed you need the individual tracks in order to make a new stem mix. You should always get the complete multi track session to take away as well as any stems. A good mix can be re created by just mixing the stems together in the right proportions.
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John
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 17:55:26
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Stems are nothing more than sub mixes. In Sonar buses can be used to create them by outputting similar tracks to the same buss. For example guitars go to the guitar buss the vocals go to the vocal buss and so on. To make the "stems" simply export the buses to their own files. OK it seems everyone can type faster than me.
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ltb
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 18:04:52
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You can also bounce tracks to stems in Sonar & keep working within the project, then mix those to a 2 mix source before exporting for mastering. You can even master that source mix within Sonar too there by keeping everything in the project.
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cuitlahac
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 18:27:39
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Thanks for all the insight! So..... I would expect that importing into X2 would just be a standard audio file import? No complications with a Pro Tools file format or anything like that?
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
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Beepster
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 18:35:27
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Well hopefully the PT file was save in the proper format to share with other programs. OMF I think is the preferred way. Unless maybe he's testing you on importing raw wavs and syncing them up. That thought makes me giggle. ;-)
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John
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 18:42:02
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You shouldn't need OMF to import stems. Just make sure that the start point is the same for each stem. Or if PT will let you, use broadcast wave files. To get OMF in PT requires an add on that is not cheap.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 18:49:56
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What Are Stems? They are the part of the plant that you do not want to smoke! I advise you clip off all stems. Cj
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cuitlahac
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 19:09:06
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Sounds like good advice, but when times are tough you do what you have to do!
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
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cuitlahac
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 19:18:16
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So if they give me the .OMF files it looks like X2 has an OMF File Import dialog that allows SONAR to import. Sounds like I might lose some of the channel processing if they use plugs that I don't have on my DAW, but it sounds like it would work. Thanks for all the input......and the humor!
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
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ed97643
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/19 22:18:19
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Good one CJ. OP, different studios use stems very differently. On the one extreme, you might have a stem of "all vocals / no band" and another stem for "band but no vocals". (Sometimes called a 'TV mix' for karaoke style use on live TV.) Sometimes it is (as described above), guitars / keyboards / drums / bass / vocals. On the other extreme, some studios do stems for vocals - vocal reverb stem - b-vox - bvox reverb stem - guitars dry stem - guitar FX stem (you get the point) and on and on. Can be as simple or complex as needed. PS, some love them, but some mixers hate stems because the impact to master buss type compression is quite different with just one "section of the band" passing through it vs. the entire mix. YMMV.
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markyzno
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 05:31:37
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Stems are just tracks, its film/TV talk rather than music "tracks" talk. As far as OMF's are concerned be very careful as they break very easily. Dont try and export OMF's larger than 10-15 mins. Also different DAWS have different OMF export/import settings and trial and error is a key here..... The last feature I worked on was DAW hell....Trying to get OMFs from Final Cut Pro on a Mac into Sonar and back out again into Digital Performer on a Mac was quite a headache.....
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Guitarhacker
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 08:51:56
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I worked across the net recently with a guy using Pro Tools.... I sent him a standard wave mix, he loaded it into PT and recorded the vocal track. He exported the vocal track as a wave and sent it back. I loaded it up and mixed it...everything worked flawlessly. We never discussed formatting. My understanding of stems is that they are simply tracks in your project. As Mark said ^^^ in post #13... just film and TV speak for what we call tracks. They can be mixed down in any manner. Dropping the vocals from a tune, dropping the drums and bass.... all for the purpose of keeping the same song playing under a scene (underscore) with perhaps less energy and drive as dialog happens on screen....maybe just the piano stem would play, then the entire song comes back as the scene changes..... I think CJ's definition was the most accurate one.... all other things aside.
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DigitalBoston
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 09:02:28
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there the remains from the sativa a piece left over .from the,, what i like to call the [cronic bluebonic] they come im many sizes and have a bitter taste when sucked on. its only use is to make hemp or a nice earl grey tea. beats are not the only thing we farm around here. not that i have ever had any of these stems personaly.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 11:38:12
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A stem can be anything. But basically, its a group of tracks that are bounced into one track and in most cases that track is a stereo track. You can have Stems for all your drums, vocals, guitars, strings, and any other instrument group. This is the most popular way and those stems can be used for mixing and/or mastering, You can get creative with sterms as your imagination goes. I do not like to use stems for mixing or mastering. Because you lose control over the individual instruments when its in a stem. Cj
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markyzno
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 11:45:40
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As i said before, it depends in what environment. Stems are film / TV talk...... To mix a feature or a TV show in terms of dubbing mixing are completely different to music / composition talk. When you deliver score in stems to a dubbing mixer then usually that will be in LTRT stems. CJaysMusic A stem can be anything. But basically, its a group of tracks that are bounced into one track and in most cases that track is a stereo track. You can have Stems for all your drums, vocals, guitars, strings, and any other instrument group. This is the most popular way and those stems can be used for mixing and/or mastering, You can get creative with sterms as your imagination goes. I do not like to use stems for mixing or mastering. Because you lose control over the individual instruments when its in a stem. Cj
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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AT
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 14:33:54
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Stems are used in music and film. For international films, you want music/effects/dialogue separate in delivery, so you can dub in foreign languages. For music remixes, you might get the beds broken out in stems (bass, drums, guitars, fx) and lead elements separate (vocals, lead guitars or tuba, etc.). It makes it easier to remix w/o going back to the mix. Many times you won't have any effects printed (or maybe on a separate track(s) so the remixer can do their own thing. The term has been expanded to include (mostly) analog mixing, esp. summing mixing. Since analog hardware is usually limited in comparision to software, a mixer will use soft plugs on many individual instruments/tracks, bus those to stems, which are then treated w/ the hardware units in analog. Guitar bus/stem, vocal, drums, etc. Some engineers will do low/med/hi frequency stems so they can treat those elements of a mix, rather than traditional bus elements. Stem is short for something branched off - think of an upside down tree. Leaves are tracks, branches are stems (or buses), and the final mix is the trunk. If is a general, nebulous term that everybody in a project is hopefully using the same. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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jtwinpcola
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/20 15:33:26
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I won't comment on stems, I think everyone else has covered it pretty well. Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be attending one of the Alan Parsons MCTS sessions coming up in February, would you? Doing your own mix from the session stems for critique by Alan is one of the options being offered at that event. I'm doing the one in Nashville...and I'm counting the days! JTW
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/21 03:58:22
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One complication that can arise from simply exporting your busses and calling them a stem is what do you do with your reverb/delay busses? Do you export these individually as a "Reverb Stem" or would you incorporate their contribution into, say, the guitars or vocals stem?
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cuitlahac
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/21 11:02:35
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Yep! That's the one! I am also pretty stoked. It looks like the Ocean Way Studios is a pretty nice facility and it should be a great opportunity to watch a master in action. I look forward to meeting you there!
Dave- SONAR Platinum, +Producer 5,7,8.5,X1PE, X2, X3e,Win7 Pro 64bit, SoundForge 10, CD Architect, Izotope 7 Advanced & Insight Metering, RAIN ION rack PC, (Nehalem) Xeon(R) CPU @ 3.06Ghz, 6GB DDR3 Ram, 2 WD640GB SATA II 7200rpm HDD's, LaCie 300GB HDD , ATI Radeon 4650 graphics (1GB) running Dual Monitors, Antelope Orion 32 + MP32 Pre's, SSL Matrix 2 Hybrid Console, M-Audio Bx8a Monitors w/ Energy 90w-12" sub, Roland A-800 PRO, BOSS BR-1600 DRS, Shure KSMs, 85s, 57s, 58s, Shure PSM Monitor, Gibson guitars, Fender P Bass.
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digi2ns
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/21 12:51:13
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Hey Dave, You can search for some re-mix competitions going on and download stems provided, drag and drop them into Sonar to try it out before ya go. The session you are attending would be a neat opportunity to take an original song broke down in to your class and see what the difference in the mixing will be compared to what ya have at home.
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digi2ns
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/21 12:59:54
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MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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CJaysMusic
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/21 17:04:28
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As i said before, it depends in what environment. In his first post in hios thread he made, he said he's using Sonar and wants to mix and master, so we already know the enviroment , its Audio in Sonar, Not Film or TV
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jtwinpcola
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Re:What Are Stems?
2013/01/23 08:37:02
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Yes, it will be quite a learning experience, no doubt. My birthday is in February, about a week before this MCTS. So this little trip to Nashville is my birthday present to me. Oddly enough, the following day after registering, I found out that about a week after this event, the Alan Parsons Live Project will be doing a show here in Florida, at a venue no more than 10 minutes from my house. Guess February's gonna be a good birthday month for me! Looking forward to meeting you there as well! Take care, JTW
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