nick8004
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What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
I upgraded from Sonar 7 to X2 last year and just started using it in earnest. I'm a little overwhelmed by all the effects that are available--I realize many have been there forever but there's a lot of new stuff, too. Not sure about which choices to make--PerfectSpace or Breverb? The Sonitus Equalizer or Pro Channel? I want to be reasonably proficient on the "must have" tools for recording, mixing and mastering without spending more research time than I have to. This is mainly for contemporary and acoustic jazz with saxophone and electronic/ambient music.
So what are your top-tier, A-team, "bread and butter" effects? Should I automatically choose Pro Channel over similar plug-ins, and why?
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Sidroe
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 16:34:59
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/02/08 04:28:30
Choices are pretty hard using Sonar. So much is packed in there. I think you will find as you go along Perfect Space fits certain cases while Breverb does others. I try to fit the tool to the project that I'm working on. The longer you do this you will begin to see your bread and butter list growing.
As far as acoustic jazz is concerned, the synth plugins are pretty good but you will probably want to upgrade to some real quality pianos. That is if you are using plugin synths. If you do a lot of electronic music, Rapture and Zeta will fill the bill nicely.
The ProChannel FX are the strongest move Cake has made in a long time. They are absolutely hands down at the top of the list of my bread and butter go tos. It is great to be able to build a custom channel strip for each instrument on every track. Once you get ProChannel down everything else will fall into place.
For mastering I use Ozone 5 but I would not blink an eye just throwing Concrete Limiter on the end. I love the CA2A compressor on tracks. The ProChannel EQ is kind of hard to come to grips with at first but once you understand how to use it it will blow Sonitus out of the water. All of the ProChannel plugs do a great job. But again, each one of the plugs has something it does better than the other in certain situations.
I moved up to X3 this past year and am enjoying all the new features. Somethings have disappeared in the new version but if you keep your old versions on the drive you can always scan those and use them.
I could go on but I tend to sound like a commercial for Cakewalk. I've been using Cake products in studios since about 97. Some versions have been exceptional and some have been calamities. I will say even at their worst I have always been able to deliver a quality product on time.
Since you already have been thru Sonar 7 you are already aware of the products strong points. Just roll up the sleeves and dive in. Try loading an older 7 project into X2 and start playing around. I WOULD advise loading just a midi project and learning how setup the plugin synths. Loading an older project with plugins that are no longer available to you could be confusing. I wish you luck.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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John
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 16:49:40
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Good night! You sure didn't leave much for me to add. I can say I agree.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 17:46:33
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I am not a huge fan of the ProChannel concept but I think the sound quality is on average pretty decent. If you don't plan on getting any (or a lot of) third party stuff you should probably try to get comfortable with those fx first. If you have only the set that comes with X2 Producer I think you only get one channel compressor, which is a model of a very specific type (1176). So I'd suggest also looking at the Sonitus compressor. It's pretty good and more versatile.
Personally I haven't used Perfect Space, but I tend to use convolution/impulse based reverbs (like Perfect Space) when I want something to sound as if it is actually in a room/hall, and algorithmic reverbs (like BReverb) when I want it to sound like a "reverb effect". I don't think I'm alone in this.
So I'd say both have their uses.
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Kev999
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 19:07:51
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nick8004
I upgraded from Sonar 7 to X2 last year...
Me too, but I was more overwhelmed by new GUI and didn't really pay much attention to the new effects. Out of all the bundled effects, the only thing that I use often is the Sonitus Delay. But, since upgrading, I am now making increasing use of the ProChannel. Otherwise most of my goto effects are non-Cakewalk stuff.
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Having fun at work lately
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Sidroe
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 19:54:55
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Be advised, Sonitus plugs are no longer provided in Sonar. As of X3 they now include the Blue Tubes line. I was sort of on the fence with the new plugs but they are really starting to win me over.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Sidroe
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 19:56:21
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Oh, sorry for getting long winded, John. LOL! Nice to see ya!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Anderton
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 19:58:11
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Sidroe
Be advised, Sonitus plugs are no longer provided in Sonar. As of X3 they now include the Blue Tubes line. I was sort of on the fence with the new plugs but they are really starting to win me over.
Sonitus plugs are provided with Sonar, and I still think they're both underrated and relevant. The reverb is showing its age, but the delay and modulation effects still do tricks other processors can't do.
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joden
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 20:00:29
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T-Racks Grande and Breverb
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jb101
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/07 20:06:53
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Anderton
Sidroe
Be advised, Sonitus plugs are no longer provided in Sonar. As of X3 they now include the Blue Tubes line. I was sort of on the fence with the new plugs but they are really starting to win me over.
Sonitus plugs are provided with Sonar, and I still think they're both underrated and relevant. The reverb is showing its age, but the delay and modulation effects still do tricks other processors can't do.
Even though I use the Quad Curve EQ all the time, I do like the Sonitus EQ for some things.
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AT
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 01:54:52
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The Prochannel is very good and a nice way to work. The 1176 is good, the EQ outstanding. I'm partial to the G-setting these days (I think that is correct - the last one of the choices anyway). The SSL bus comp is outstanding, too, a really great comp - sounds like what a buss comp should.
As has been pointed out, PerfectSpace is good, esp. if you get more impulses for real spaces and Plates. I'm really blown away by Breverb, however. It does some nice tricks. I used mostly PS for the last few years since it was the best reverb in SONAR. Breverb has me re-evaluating and I use it a lot.
If you are just starting w/ SONAR, pick one thing and stick to it. I'd suggest PC and Breverb. Learn to use those and then start adding other effects. Tho the sonitus comp is really nice since it has a comp chart built in that lets you see the knee. Use that on the channel to learn about compression, SSL on the buss.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 04:52:44
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I predominately use Pro Channel, Sonitus, Blue Tubes, T-Racks, the Melda suite & CSR for reverbs
Outside of that lot I can't think of anything I need though I've got a few which get used occasionally, such as some modelled Pultec EQ's
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BJN
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 07:14:18
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Pro Channel has one me over.
When I upgraded to X1 I liked much but felt Pro Channel was making me a cookie cutter mixer.
Anyway.
Now wirth X3 the zoom out EQ is perfect.
I am finding I need fewer ext plugs with the X series.
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Sidroe
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 08:52:54
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I agree with Craig about the Sonitus plugs. Didn't mean to sound like I was slamming them. They still hold up well in any kind of situation. It's just that moving along to the options in X3 has forced me to take a look at the newer stock of tools. The Sonitus reverb and compressor still find their way into a project here and there.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Westside Steve
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 08:53:19
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I'm starting to like Nectar 2 (purchased the full version) for vocal presets.
I still love Sonatas eq and reverb. I also track with Universal Audio realverb.
I feel like the powered plugs take pressure off the CPU for tracking but that could be psychosomatic...
Mastering favorite Sony Sound Forge Pro.
Oh and I like the UA Pultec Pro.
WSS
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lawp
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/08 09:43:41
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surgical:
eq = dmg equality/equick, 112db redline eq
reverb = 112db redline reverb
compressor = cytomic the glue, fabfilter pro-c, psp old timer
delay = fabfilter timeless2
limiter = voxengo elephant/wavearts finalplug
channel strip = wavearts trackplug/sknote strip/bus/voxengo voxformer
honourable mention = toneboosters' stuff
creative:
psp eq's
audio damage stuff!!!
camel stuff
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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nick8004
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/12 15:39:47
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Thanks to all for the feedback--lots of good stuff here! I spent time over the last few days doing some research based on your suggestions.
I'm not sure what the fuss over Pro Channel is all about, though. I did an Equalizer comparison and played with the Sonitus EQ, the LP-64 EQ, and the Pro Channel EQ. I liked the LP-64 the best and the PC the least. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with every EQ feature and I don't claim to have golden ears, so this is mostly based on the UI. Is there something about the features or the sound quality that make it a cut above, or do folks just get turned on by the convenience factor? (I don't find it particularly burdensome to add an effect the traditional way.)
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dubdisciple
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/12 16:16:10
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nick8004
Thanks to all for the feedback--lots of good stuff here! I spent time over the last few days doing some research based on your suggestions.
I'm not sure what the fuss over Pro Channel is all about, though. I did an Equalizer comparison and played with the Sonitus EQ, the LP-64 EQ, and the Pro Channel EQ. I liked the LP-64 the best and the PC the least. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with every EQ feature and I don't claim to have golden ears, so this is mostly based on the UI. Is there something about the features or the sound quality that make it a cut above, or do folks just get turned on by the convenience factor? (I don't find it particularly burdensome to add an effect the traditional way.)
The downside of liking the LP-64 is that it is not practical as a go to EQ for most situations since it is designed as a mastering EQ. It is more processor intensive than the others. The pro channel EQ takes a nice leap in X3. In the meantime, if none of the included EQ's work for you, there are lots of third party ones, including some nice freebies. I use the PC (quadvurve eq) for most track EQ functions. For me it is a matter of convenience since the built-in analyzer is very useful. Before X3 I used to use the mequalizer bundled in the melda productions free bundle because it too had the analyzer built in or the sonitus combined with SPAN.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 07:20:40
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The Quadcurve was a bit fiddly to set up prior to X3, but now we've got the flyout that many users wanted, it's a dream to use.
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AT
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 10:14:13
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Nick,
a lot of the prochannel is convenience, since the effects are locked onto that channel. W/ non-PC effects, say, EQ, you end up having a lot of EQ windows floating around which is a problem if you use the same one. Or you can dock 64-bit effects but then you have to scroll through those selections one by one (something that Cake needs to change so you can skip from beginning to end). With PC, you have all your effects one the channel you are working on at the time. Once you get beyond 8-10 tracks it is much easier not to have to cycle through floating effects.
All the LP stuff (and PC) also induce latency, so if you have even one active you can't do overdubs w/o tracking it down and turning it off. That may or may not be a problem w/ your work flow if you never start mixing and then do an overdub or add a new line, but if you do ...
If you like the LP EQ you'll probably find the Sonitus EQ good, or the "Pure" setting on the PC EQ. You'll get much of the same "sound" (or lack of it) as the LP w/o the cpu usage or latency. And that is what mixing is all about - finding the tools that match your ear and expectations. While it is nice to talk techniques, nobody can tell you what sounds good - you have to decide that for yourself. It is art, not science (tho understanding the science behind sound is very helpful). You hear things one way, and others differently, and it is impossible to say one taste is better than someone else's. There are accepted "sounds" in a genré that are expected to be there, how you get there is your choice. Otherwise you are just painting by the numbers.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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scook
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 10:42:32
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AT
Or you can dock 64-bit effects
32bit plug-ins may be docked too. 32bit VST plug-ins wrapped with BitBridge (I do not have jBrdige so have no knowledge about it) may be docked using by their VST header. Maybe not as useful because the header does not contain the actual UI. Instead there is a button to display the UI. To display the header hold the SHIFT key when opening the plug-in UI. The header window will usually open behind the plug-in UI.
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TremoJem
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 12:18:44
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Just started using X3d.
I also installed Alloy2 and Ozone5.
I have to say that after using Sonar7PE since it was released, I am sort of used to those FX Plugs, but I have been diving into Alloy2 and loving it.
I need to try Pro Channel, as it looks like a great tool!
I have not seen the Blue Tubes FX...I must be missing something.
Every time I open X3d is searches for the plug ins and it finds 63 of them.
So...Blue Tubes must be in there somewhere.
If I sort by VST2 or VST3, etc. where should I look (while in the browser)?
Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser Most importantly...not enough time. www.studiocat.com jim@studiocat.com
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scook
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 12:35:23
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The Blue Tube effects are VST2 plug-ins in the Nomad Factory folder.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 12:46:00
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nick8004
I upgraded from Sonar 7 to X2 last year and just started using it in earnest. I'm a little overwhelmed by all the effects that are available--I realize many have been there forever but there's a lot of new stuff, too. Not sure about which choices to make--PerfectSpace or Breverb? The Sonitus Equalizer or Pro Channel? I want to be reasonably proficient on the "must have" tools for recording, mixing and mastering without spending more research time than I have to. This is mainly for contemporary and acoustic jazz with saxophone and electronic/ambient music.
So what are your top-tier, A-team, "bread and butter" effects? Should I automatically choose Pro Channel over similar plug-ins, and why?
Intel Core i7-2600K @ 3.40GHz
8GB RAM
Windows 7 64-bit
As far as you not wanting to spend more time than needed doesn't matter as we all have different internal learning curves. For example: someone who knows how each setting in a reverb works will learn the differences faster between each reverb, than someone who doesn't know how each setting of a reverb works. The same goes for every effect. So you may have to so pend allot more time learning each plugin before you decide what are your go to ones. Because its not the plugin effects that make a song sound better. Its the person using the plugin effetcs Just look at each plugin and find out what there qualities are in regards of how they effect your individual tracks and songs. listen for the subtle differences in each of the EQ's, reverbs, compressors, delays and all the other effects. CJ
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ChristopherM
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 13:24:32
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2014/02/13 20:50:46
+1 for the Sonitus compressor. Not only does it work well, but the GUI uses the capabilities of a computer-based display well. I really like that I can see how tweaking the controls affects the transfer characteristic curve of the compressor. I know the received wisdom is "use your ears" but using your eyes as well adds a lot. For instance, you can anticipate what the compressor will do to a signal out of the range of whatever is currently hitting it. Conversely, I don't get why the current fashion for vintage emulations means that we can't have an information-rich GUI, too. For me, that is the shortcoming of all of the Pro Channel stuff.
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TremoJem
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 13:45:31
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Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser Most importantly...not enough time. www.studiocat.com jim@studiocat.com
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quibb
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 15:05:47
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I've come to really appreciate the Pro Channel in combination with track templates. I could create track templates with any of my fx, but the Pro Channel is right there and so much quicker. The bonus is that they are quality plugs. I've been updating and archiving a ton of my old song ideas and I find myself using Addictive Drums a lot (over EZ and ECO) and DimPro. Piece of cake to drag AD/DimPro from the browser with all my preferred PC fx settings, drag my old midi data, then tweak the audio in the Pro Channel. Sound like a no brainer, but I've replaced so many instruments on midi tracks lately I couldn't help but notice how slick it is. I don't miss scrolling through plugs... However, I must say I still use the Sonitus suite a lot. As stated, the delay is awesome, especially when you mess with the sync settings. V
post edited by quibb - 2014/02/13 15:13:48
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konradh
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 16:33:57
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Melodyne, ProChannel EQ, ProChannel 1176, Lexion Reverb, and EZMix, the last of which requires explanation (see below).
Although I do not like many of the presets, there are a few inside Toontrack's EZMix 2 that I use quite often. (I have EZMix 2 + Mastering + Vocal Toolbox).
In the drum department, I use the Firm Kick preset a lot. This alone would justify the price for me. A couple of the other kick presets are equally good depending on your style of music and the original drum sound. (I have also used tom presets to control the bottom and hi-hat presets to turn trashy into crisp.)
Bass with Limiter is excellent on DI'd or clean sampled bass. I use it on J Bass sometimes, but on a Rick, it really helps keep things under control.
There is a Compressor-Exciter vocal present that has helped me out a few times in getting the voice out front without making it sound too loud for the track. (Most of the vocal presets are a little too much for me, but my style is pretty organic.)
It doesn't come up often, but the Pedal Steel preset gives a good amped/club sound to a pedal steel sample.
I never use the guitar presents in EZMix, but that's just me.
So, even though I use only a handful for the presets, it is rare to have a track that doesn't use at least one. To my ears, there are a few good presets and a lot of "not for me" presets. As mentioned in the recent Sound on Sound review, this product would be WAY more useful if it were more tweakable, but then you'd lose the low price and simple interface that are the chief marketing points.
~~~
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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John T
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 20:51:25
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ChristopherM
Conversely, I don't get why the current fashion for vintage emulations means that we can't have an information-rich GUI, too. For me, that is the shortcoming of all of the Pro Channel stuff.
Good point. I'd like to see a live graph for the compressors. Maybe that could be a fly out like we have for the EQ.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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...wicked
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Re: What Are Your "Bread and Butter" Effects for Sonar X2?
2014/02/13 20:56:41
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The pro-channel plugs are now my go-to for all my bread and butter stuff. - Quad-curve EQ
- Channel and bus compression
- Softtube saturation
On just about everything. Console emulation and tape emulation on my downstream busses (Drums, GTR, Submaster, and Master)
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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