What CD's are you using as a reference ? ? ? ?

Steely Dan's 'Everything Must Go' and 'Two Against Nature' These are produced for CD not vinyl masters that have been transferred over. I find the material very good for referencing many different speakers in a studio situation and it seems to be good with many genres as well.

It is also a mighty fine standard for FOH live PA stuff too.

Perfect mixes, great vocals, keys and guitars and drums etc, everything. Tight kick. Perfect for testing studio monitor woofers and subs live. Plenty of space too to hear any room sounds that might be going on. Not mastered heavily either, to about a K-11 reference which although is reasonably loud still has nice transients and kicks you hard at times. Fantastic overall speaker test.

Mighty fine band with beautiful and amazing songs too. This is a harmony and melody lesson as well folks. How and when to use great harmonic and melodic concepts.

It depends on the musical style. 

Thomas Dolby, "Aliens Ate My Buick" 
Sting, "10 Summoners Tales"
Rush, "Power Windows"
Porcupine Tree, "In Absentia"
Toto, "Kingdom of Desire"

Carlos Santana - Supernatural Dr Dre - Chronic 2001

I was just using a series of CDs from different eras as a means of tweaking my sub-woofer position and volume and I was amazed just how much bottom end varies over the years.

I found that The Alan Parsons Project "Eye In the Sky" is a very balanced CD. 

Yes? No? Maybe?

Thomas Dolby, "Aliens Ate My Buick"  Sting, "10 Summoners Tales" Rush, "Power Windows" Porcupine Tree, "In Absentia" Toto, "Kingdom of Desire"

Power Windows??  Believe me, I'm a huge Rush fan, but that album sounds like ass.  It is super thin.  Even the brand new "remaster" of the old "remaster" is entirely too bright.  


The rest of you albums are fantastic.  10 summoners tales is one I use a great deal, and just about any Porcupine Tree album sounds good.

Hi Kev, I'd like to give you a different approach here other than listing reference material. I've actually stopped doing this unless I've been asked to come close to something. The reason I've stopped is every band to me needs to be treated as its own separate entity while achieving it's own distinct voice.

For example, I had a client that once asked me to get as close to <insert name of band> as possible. I nailed it in my opinion and wasn't crazy about the idea from the beginning, but that's what he wanted. He then called me and said "it's cool, but when I listen to this OTHER band, there are things that are lacking". Ok, so wait, let's take a time out here. He tells me he wants the sound of this other band, I get it and now it's not right because it doesn't have the sound of this OTHER band? LOL! I wasn't even mad...I actually found it a bit funny...and so did he. :)

Needless to say, it was a remaster. But, the second time I did it, I took the approach of creating a sound that best enhanced THAT band without comparing it to anyone else. Of course the client loved the final outcome and in my opinion, it was way better than what we had originally. I think comparing for certain instances can be helpful, but the main thing to concentrate on is YOUR sound.

The problem with reference material is when you are mixing, you are listening to a mastered recording. When a mastering guy gets the job, what he gets isn't what you are hearing. This in turn can really mess up your decision making if you're not careful during the mix stage. Then again, it can also help you if you know what and how to listen for things.

The main thing to keep in mind is...when referencing, you have to compare in moderation while keeping certain aspects at bay. Unless you have a kick drum and bass guitar like what you are comparing to, chances are you very well might ruin YOUR mix based on trying to achieve THEIR mix. Using reference mixes to hone in on certain things is a plus, but you STILL have to mix your material as YOUR material without goign too crazy listening to the other stuff, know what I mean?

It's also super important to compare with the correct genre. I got buds that love Doobie Brothers albums that use them for references. That's not going to help them with a rock album of today with the sonics we have now that we didn't have before. Sure, we can borrow certain elements but we have to be careful. That would be like comparing the old rap band Suagar Hill Gang with something new from DMX. It's just silly to compare in *most* scenarios there.

In my case, I have albums from every genre that I use when I need to. For the more modern stuff, I'm no Creed fan, but the sound that was achieved on "Overcome" has been a benchmark for me in the modern rock/metal area. Godsmack The Oracle album is another good piece of production.

For middle of the road rock/pop with great drums and bass, Living Color always comes to mind for me. Listen to that song Cult of Personality. The darned thing sounds exactly the same everywhere you play it...even on lappy speakers. LOL! I'm not a fan of the lead guitars, but the bass, drums and Glover's vocals are just off the hook.

For classic rock stuff, you can't beat the Foreigner/Doobies/Steely Dan/Boston/Bad Company/Zep/Kansas etc. stuff. These are just examples off the top of my head, but you always want to make sure you compare the right stuff. We can't allow an album that sounds great to dictate what we are working on if the genre isn't similar. Even there, you want your own sound. You may just start something new without the reference stuff. I personally try to stay away from reference material unless I'm having a problem or may be losing my way. When I compare my final result to something it never sounds like them...it sounds like me with elements of them. :)

So make sure you're careful and just take what you need from a good album without driving yourself too crazy. Often times when you listen to the big guns for comparisson purposes, what you THINK you hear isn't always the case. For example, bass guitar usually has less low end in it than people think. Yet when you listen to a pro album, it gives you the impression there is more. If you could solo that bass up and listen to it, you'd be quite amazed at how it doesn't have the low end you think it does. So stay focused when doing this stuff man but don't pull your hair out over it...best of luck and I hope this helps a bit. :)

-Danny

For our (SMB) stuff, I look for a blend of acoustic and electric instruments, with emphasis on the acoustic, so these have been used on and off for a while;

Willy Porter - How to Rob a Bank
Kate Rusby - Underneath the Stars
Ian Anderson - Secret Language of Birds

I think Danny has made some good points about referencing. I am all for it but there are a few things too in how I might work with reference material.

The first is to ensure levels between your mix and the reference material are maintained as equal. It will require you to attenuate the signal coming off the CD at some point. VU's make it easy to match those. When the levels are equal the ref mix won't be able to win purely on level alone, it has to compete a bit more with your mix. Also with the ref you are hearing mastered and compressed material and I think you have to backtrack slightly mastering wise from that and imagine the ref mix in its unmastered state to a certain extent.

The second is I might only listen to the reference material for 1 minute out of an hour. Even 5 or ten minutes later you have forgotten a lot of the detail of the reference, as a result you stop copying either it as a whole or individual components of it. Rather you have got just some memory of it an in overall sense and that is what can be a driving force in a good way to achieve a similar great mix. And you can go off and still create original and individual things to the tracks.

So once the music is right and great I think it's OK creating a similar mix to another great band /mix. I think we do it naturally. It goes a long way to pleasing clients as well who are asking you in some ways to create something that sounds like something else.

Every mix and elements of it you hear and listen to goes into the mass storage of our minds to be pulled out later here and there as you are doing your own mixes. I include great live mixes as well can be memorised and pulled out later and incorporated into a studio mix. (The Return to Forever mix here in Melbourne was unbelievable!) You don't even have to reference during a production either, doing it in between in general listening to other great music for recreational purposes when you may have more free time is just as good. Driving along in your car with a great car sound system at low volume is great referencing activity. It takes many forms I think.

daryl1968


+1 on Steely Dan.

The steely dan... 

I usually use a Brian Adams CD actually? (Believe it or not)

And people say, my mixes bring them to tears? Unfortunately... It's because they're so bad :-(

Either I let the ME decide ... or I follow closely the artist-vibe I'm emulating ... and just let it fly with a good limiter.

For middle of the road rock/pop with great drums and bass, Living Color always comes to mind for me. Listen to that song Cult of Personality. The darned thing sounds exactly the same everywhere you play it...even on lappy speakers. LOL! I'm not a fan of the lead guitars, but the bass, drums and Glover's vocals are just off the hook.

I've commented on this selection when you've made it in the past.

I swear when I listen to it loud ... which is basically the only way I listen to it ... I hear the music ducking the snare.  Am I hallucinating?