Helpful ReplyWhat Does "Bounce To Clips" Do?

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michael diemer
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2018/10/31 21:56:25 (permalink)

What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do?

I use it to make invisible clips visible, but is there some other purpose in using it?
 
Thanks,
Mike

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soens
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/10/31 22:12:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby michael diemer 2018/11/01 02:34:46
The term "bounce" comes from the old analog multitrack days when you would combine 2 or more recorded tracks together onto a new track so you could record new material on the previously recorded tracks.
 
It is similar with digital tracks but far more functional.
 
Bounce to Clips: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=EditingAudio.15.html
 
Bounce to Tracks: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Dialogs1.14.html
 
Bookmark this link for online help https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=ix.html
 
Side note:
There's a comment in the help about .bun files that may shed light on why people often have issues with them. Bundle files are designed to store midi and audio data and not a lot more, so they work better when all the tracks are bounced.
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/10/31 23:46:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby michael diemer 2018/11/01 02:34:54
I use Bounce to clips for combining multiple audio clips in a track into one, combing multiple midi clips into one, permanently applying a slip edit (eg. a slip edited clip to start at zero, to permanently render a stretched clip that I've used audio snap on to take advantage of the high quality offline algorithms, Process clip effects (audio or midi) that have been inserted in clips. That's my off the top of my head list. 😄
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michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 02:32:25 (permalink)
Interesting. I do midi only, but use soft synths, so maybe my clips are audio? Anyway, when I import an old project in to CbB, some of the activity is not visible in the clips pane. So I use the Bounce feature, which makes them visible. Not sure it would have any further use for me, but it sure helps with my imports.

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michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 02:34:35 (permalink)
Thanks soens for the links and other info.

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soens
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 03:45:36 (permalink)
Soft synths will only produce audio clips when they are frozen. You can freeze them then bounce them for permanent audio clips. Once this is done you can actually remove the soft synth without affecting the audio clip it produced.
 
Once frozen you can remove the soft synth and even delete the whole track from the project while still retaining the audio file in the Audio folder. The file can also be dragged into it's own track unaffected by any soft synths.
post edited by soens - 2018/11/01 22:19:02
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 08:59:03 (permalink)
A clip is a "window" into the underlying audio file, so bouncing also has a benefit of creating another audio file based on that viewable window. It helps to tidy up CPU load if you have slip-editted clips all over in a project.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 14:40:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2018/11/05 02:52:52
Bouncing MIDI clips is somewhat different from bouncing audio: MIDI clips are basically “containers” whose boundaries contain all the MIDI events that are recorded in one pass. If you record a few notes, stop the transport, then record a few more notes, you’ll have two separate MIDI clips. You can then select both clips, and “bounce to clips” to combine the two clips into one. If you record multiple takes over the course of an entire project, you can wind up with dozens of clips on one track, which can be visually confusing, depending on your view settings (clip boundaries on/off, etc.). Also if you have lot of controller data as I frequently do, small clips can be hidden behind larger ones, data appears to be missing when it’s not, etc. For this reason, I often bounce midi clips to clean up the view. One caution: where clips overlap, bouncing can have unwanted effects on controller data, so use caution and be prepared to undo. HTH
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 14:48:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jackson white 2018/11/01 15:46:04
What the docs don't cover, is bouncing a clip to itself - i.e. just selecting one clip on its own and doing "Bounce to clips".
 
This is the workaround for many of the clip processing bugs / wierd behaviour that have been reported over the years.
 
Mettelus is correct in saying that bouncing to clips creates a new audio file, but it also has the effect of "cleaning" up the internal window pointers that seem to get messed up after editing or processing.
 

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michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 17:29:38 (permalink)
soens
Soft synths will only produce audio clips when they are frozen. You can freeze them then bounce them for permanent audio clips. Once this is done you can actually remove the soft synth without affecting the audio clip it produced.

That might be helpful when a piece is done. but if you want to revise later on, you would have to insert and route the synth again. Which would be a bear for orchestral music. So I leave them as they are.
Another benefit to converting to audio of course is that you can apply FX directly to each inst. But that creates huge CPU issues, so again in orch. music is to be avoided, unless you have a ridiculous system.

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michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 17:31:22 (permalink)
mettelus
A clip is a "window" into the underlying audio file, so bouncing also has a benefit of creating another audio file based on that viewable window. It helps to tidy up CPU load if you have slip-editted clips all over in a project.


I'm not sure I even do slip-editing. Considering I don't even know what it is. Unless I'm doing it Zombie-like, without knowing I'm doing it.

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michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 17:33:47 (permalink)
rhenn
Bouncing MIDI clips is somewhat different from bouncing audio: MIDI clips are basically “containers” whose boundaries contain all the MIDI events that are recorded in one pass. If you record a few notes, stop the transport, then record a few more notes, you’ll have two separate MIDI clips. You can then select both clips, and “bounce to clips” to combine the two clips into one. If you record multiple takes over the course of an entire project, you can wind up with dozens of clips on one track, which can be visually confusing, depending on your view settings (clip boundaries on/off, etc.). Also if you have lot of controller data as I frequently do, small clips can be hidden behind larger ones, data appears to be missing when it’s not, etc. For this reason, I often bounce midi clips to clean up the view. One caution: where clips overlap, bouncing can have unwanted effects on controller data, so use caution and be prepared to undo. HTH

Yes, and what I just started doing is selecting all the clips for an inst, then bouncing to clips. I hate to see "dead" areas in the clip pane. This ties everything together in one clip. One problem though: after doing it, I can no longer see thye names of the inst's, even after selecting to see them in options.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 17:35:12 (permalink)
msmcleod
What the docs don't cover, is bouncing a clip to itself - i.e. just selecting one clip on its own and doing "Bounce to clips".
 
This is the workaround for many of the clip processing bugs / wierd behaviour that have been reported over the years.
 
Mettelus is correct in saying that bouncing to clips creates a new audio file, but it also has the effect of "cleaning" up the internal window pointers that seem to get messed up after editing or processing.
 


So, does this mean that the file becomes larger, since it is now audio? I thought that only happens if you bounce to audio.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 17:56:09 (permalink)
soens
Soft synths will only produce audio clips when they are frozen. You can freeze them then bounce them for permanent audio clips. Once this is done you can actually remove the soft synth without affecting the audio clip it produced.


Just for clarification, can produce audio clips from Soft Synths several ways besides just freezing them. Also, if you freeze the track, it IS a permanent audio clip already and doesn't require re-bouncing. If you want the frozen audio to start at zero, simply Slip Edit the midi clip first to start at zero then you can Freeze it and it will be audio. You can delete the frozen tracks Synth and keep the frozen tracks Audi without re-bouncing by un-ticking 'delete associated tracks'. I prefer to disconnect the Synth just in case I wish to change something, re-do or add to.
One of the newer ways to turn Soft Synths to audio is by arming the Record button on the Synth audio track, then hitting the main record button. (realtime records it). You can then mute the midi track with the Synth still connected or disconnect or the Synth from the Synth rack. This keeps all your Synths and Patches handy while freeing up your resources.
Another method to turn Soft Synths to audio which I prefer is Bounce to Track. Simply highlight the Midi track and Synth audio track then hit Bounce to Track (Tracks menu) source category 'Tracks' and either Bounce to a new track or to the Synth audio track or make and name a new one before the Bounce to track step and point it there. I like to do this and like I said Disconnect the Synth from the Synth Rack so as to be able to reconnect to change, add more, or multi-track bounce (drums for example) at a later time. I've been burned by Un-freeze in the past and have lost all synth patches and info, so now I disconnect and reconnect.
Of couse you can export and reimport, but why do that when Bounce to Track Saves you that Step and the step of having to point the export location. Just as a mention though.

Anyways, just trying to clarify and be informative and helpful in the spirit of the forum. ✌️
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 19:07:02 (permalink)
michael diemer
mettelus
A clip is a "window" into the underlying audio file, so bouncing also has a benefit of creating another audio file based on that viewable window. It helps to tidy up CPU load if you have slip-editted clips all over in a project.


I'm not sure I even do slip-editing. Considering I don't even know what it is. Unless I'm doing it Zombie-like, without knowing I'm doing it.


This is when you grab hold of one end of a clip and extend it, either to the right or left
 
This can expose material that previously hidden, thus making it audible once more, or if you choose to slip edit inwards thereby muting whatever events you've hidden.
 
The same applies to both midi clips & audio clips
 
Once you bounce a clip to itself - midi or audio, you will lose the ability to slip edit it outwards to display the data which had been previously hidden.
This may or may not be desirable and in the case of audio, will create a new audio file now based on the revised length, as mettelus described above.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 20:50:00 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
michael diemer
mettelus
A clip is a "window" into the underlying audio file, so bouncing also has a benefit of creating another audio file based on that viewable window. It helps to tidy up CPU load if you have slip-editted clips all over in a project.


I'm not sure I even do slip-editing. Considering I don't even know what it is. Unless I'm doing it Zombie-like, without knowing I'm doing it.


This is when you grab hold of one end of a clip and extend it, either to the right or left
 
This can expose material that previously hidden, thus making it audible once more, or if you choose to slip edit inwards thereby muting whatever events you've hidden.
 
The same applies to both midi clips & audio clips
 
Once you bounce a clip to itself - midi or audio, you will lose the ability to slip edit it outwards to display the data which had been previously hidden.
This may or may not be desirable and in the case of audio, will create a new audio file now based on the revised length, as mettelus described above.


Ah, more mysteries are revealed. I think what I should be doing is slip-editing then, not clip-bouncing, since my goal is to make all my midi visible. I had been afraid to drag those clip ends for fear that it would result in clip cropping, which I thought would erase events.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 21:23:25 (permalink)
michael diemer
msmcleod
What the docs don't cover, is bouncing a clip to itself - i.e. just selecting one clip on its own and doing "Bounce to clips".
 
This is the workaround for many of the clip processing bugs / wierd behaviour that have been reported over the years.
 
Mettelus is correct in saying that bouncing to clips creates a new audio file, but it also has the effect of "cleaning" up the internal window pointers that seem to get messed up after editing or processing.
 


So, does this mean that the file becomes larger, since it is now audio? I thought that only happens if you bounce to audio.




No - Sorry, I should have been clearer - I was only referring to bouncing audio clips to themselves. 
 
This doesn't apply to MIDI clips (AFAIK !!)

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soens
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/01 22:10:21 (permalink)
Blogospherianman
Also, if you freeze the track, it IS a permanent audio clip already and doesn't require re-bouncing.

Anyways, just trying to clarify and be informative and helpful in the spirit of the forum. ✌️

 
I was wrong and edited my previous post. Freezing creates an audio clip and a file in the Audio folder. However, to my way of thinking, neither freezing nor bouncing will create a "permanent clip". Within the project a frozen "clip", bounced or not, can be unfrozen with the click of a button making it disappear, while the audio file remains in the folder. Freezing it a 2nd time creates a 2nd audio file in the folder. Bouncing it will create a 3rd file in the folder. But when unfreezing, they all get removed from the clips pane.
 
Side note: If you don't save the project after freezing a soft synth, it's audio files will disappear from the folder.
 
The OP was a bit vague but now I see Michael is referring to MIDI tracks that have overlapping takes, which can be created while recording new parts or manually entering notes over an existing clip. Newly added notes will create a new clip that covers the previous one making it invisible.
 
So the simple answer would be: MIDI Bouncing takes all the "selected" clips in a track and merges them into one big clip making any invisible parts visible again.
post edited by soens - 2018/11/01 23:04:16
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/03 00:45:29 (permalink)
My workflow includes transferring all of my tracks, both audio & MIDI to audio tracks and exporting them out and into a separate mix project.  "Bounce To Clip" consolidates all of the MIDI punch ins/outs and all of the audio takes (punch ins/outs) into a solid track for exporting out and importing into a separate project for mixing.  It also solidifies the timeline so that everything in the mix project is in the correct time sequence.  That's what I use it for-FWIW.
 
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/04 20:44:24 (permalink)
Bounce to clips = healing clips.
In other words you have several split clips, clips spread out that are not joined, Bouncing to clips will make them all one solid track. Its good for house cleaning, rather than having 10 clips in one track, heal them to one whole track.
 
All extended slip edit data will be lost on audio and midi clips.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/04 21:29:50 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Bounce to clips = healing clips.
In other words you have several split clips, clips spread out that are not joined, Bouncing to clips will make them all one solid track. Its good for house cleaning, rather than having 10 clips in one track, heal them to one whole track.
 
All extended slip edit data will be lost on audio and midi clips.


What exactly what would be lost? Controller events, for example? If I do only midi, is this a concern for me, or does it only apply to audio?
 

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/04 23:33:37 (permalink)
Bouncing will not discard data. Stretching a clip beyond the 1st or last data point only affects the visual. There's nothing to lose which is why bouncing trims them off.
 
Side note: Stretching the front of every clip to the -0- time line point is helpful when exporting the lot as stems to be used in another DAW. This way they all have the same starting point.
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 00:31:03 (permalink)
Point of interest on this-I have Alan Parson's Art & Science of Sound Recording series.  In the segment on mixing he points out that if you intend to ever go cross platform on tracks (say, from Sonar to Pro Tools) it's essential to bounce your clips together (or what Pro Tools calls "consolidating tracks") because in any format other than the one the track was created it might lose its place in the time sequence of the overall project.
 
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 01:18:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2018/11/05 02:59:23
Each Audio clip is a separate audio file that is stored , retrieved, linked with in program. Bounce to clips renders those separated files into one file - per track. This is a considerable amount of overhead saved for file handling for Os as well. I always bounce to clips before a final save and closing the project. You can select multiple tracks and bounce to clips - and each track will save and move to the next. This can reduce the amount of time you need to babysit the process as well.

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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 11:15:50 (permalink)
it also apply fade-in & fade-out

 
i apologize for my english
 
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 11:39:20 (permalink)
michael diemer
chuckebaby
Bounce to clips = healing clips.
In other words you have several split clips, clips spread out that are not joined, Bouncing to clips will make them all one solid track. Its good for house cleaning, rather than having 10 clips in one track, heal them to one whole track.
 
All extended slip edit data will be lost on audio and midi clips.


What exactly what would be lost? Controller events, for example? If I do only midi, is this a concern for me, or does it only apply to audio?
 


 
To answer your question, no controller data is lost.
 
I personally use bounce to clips very frequently on all my midi clips to prevent over lapping accidents, double notes, making drag+select more accurate, exc.
 
Also of important note, if you have a project that crashes and will no longer open.. your midi is gone for good.
There is no way to recover it like there is audio files (inside the audio folder).
This is why I always use bounce to clips on my midi tracks and save them in another project folder as 1 whole clip.
 
 

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Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
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#26
michael diemer
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 17:17:24 (permalink)
chuckebaby
michael diemer
chuckebaby
Bounce to clips = healing clips.
In other words you have several split clips, clips spread out that are not joined, Bouncing to clips will make them all one solid track. Its good for house cleaning, rather than having 10 clips in one track, heal them to one whole track.
 
All extended slip edit data will be lost on audio and midi clips.


What exactly what would be lost? Controller events, for example? If I do only midi, is this a concern for me, or does it only apply to audio?
 


 
 
 
To answer your question, no controller data is lost.
 
I personally use bounce to clips very frequently on all my midi clips to prevent over lapping accidents, double notes, making drag+select more accurate, exc.
 
Also of important note, if you have a project that crashes and will no longer open.. your midi is gone for good.
There is no way to recover it like there is audio files (inside the audio folder).
This is why I always use bounce to clips on my midi tracks and save them in another project folder as 1 whole clip.
 
 



Thanks. And great advice re: the bouncing to audio. so far I haven't permanently lost any projects, but it would only take one to seriously impact my well-being. I need to start doing that!

michael diemer
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#27
chuckebaby
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Re: What Does "Bounce To Clips" Do? 2018/11/05 17:44:45 (permalink)
michael diemer
chuckebaby
michael diemer
chuckebaby
Bounce to clips = healing clips.
In other words you have several split clips, clips spread out that are not joined, Bouncing to clips will make them all one solid track. Its good for house cleaning, rather than having 10 clips in one track, heal them to one whole track.
 
All extended slip edit data will be lost on audio and midi clips.


What exactly what would be lost? Controller events, for example? If I do only midi, is this a concern for me, or does it only apply to audio?
 


 
 
 
To answer your question, no controller data is lost.
 
I personally use bounce to clips very frequently on all my midi clips to prevent over lapping accidents, double notes, making drag+select more accurate, exc.
 
Also of important note, if you have a project that crashes and will no longer open.. your midi is gone for good.
There is no way to recover it like there is audio files (inside the audio folder).
This is why I always use bounce to clips on my midi tracks and save them in another project folder as 1 whole clip.
 
 



Thanks. And great advice re: the bouncing to audio. so far I haven't permanently lost any projects, but it would only take one to seriously impact my well-being. I need to start doing that!




No problem Michael
I bounce all my midi clips and export them to a Writing project folder (not Cakewalk project folder)
Its my personal directory folder for each song I make, I create a duplicate folder for each song with data inside.
This includes "Full midi clips", "partial midi clips" (for different versions) and "Text files" with "Song notes".
No audio though, that's all stored in the Cakewalk project folder and can be restored in case of crash failure.
 
The only audio clips I store in my Writing project folder are bounced Synth tracks.
This is incase years from now those VST instruments are no longer compatible, at least I have the audio tracks to fall back on.
 
I hope I didn't make this too confusing, to summarize...
I have always created a personal directory for my songs. In this directory, there are many folders..one for each song I create. This way if im using another DAW in the future, or compatibility is an issue, I have a good back up plan. The directory is small in size because midi files are small in size (sometimes just merely KB's).
 

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#28
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