bapu
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 14:21:22
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Rodar6
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 14:37:39
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Thanks for the heads up. The scale is actually the diatonic scale and as you already know the intervals are WWHWWWH. When talking about modes we are referring to which interval we start the scale on. If we started on the note before the first W then we would call this the Major or Ionian mode. The scale like most things in music are cyclical, so there will always be two W's followed by an H then three W's followed by an H. W - Whole Step - two frets H - Half Step - one fret (I know you already know this but some may not) Modes of the diatonic scale (very roughly explained) wwhwwwh - ionian (major) whwwwhw- dorian hwwwhww- phrygian wwwhwwh- lydian wwhwwhw-mixolydian whwwhww-aeolian (natural minor) hwwhwww-locrian There is a lot of confusion surround modes and scales. Scale names are diatonic, pentatonic, chromatic. Modes refer to the step as your starting point on the scale. Then of course we have the key which it is played in. To confuse things even more some keys are relative to each other e.g (Diatonic Scale) C major and Am aeolian share exactly the same notes. However, the difference is your tonal center for C is C, for Am it is Am. The only way to distinguish these two relative keys is based on how familiar you want to make the tonal centre to the listener. If resolve your chord progressions on Am then the Key is Am. It is interesting because some players change key and dont even realise they are doing it. Thanks for the input so far. Its nice to chat about this stuff because it can be confusing. Here's a link to a pretty useful website I found http://www.guitar-chords....esexplained-part1.html Rod
"Expert in novice advice" Sonar PE 8.5.1 (pre -5,6,7,8) - Logic Pro Studio 9.1.6 - Windows 7 32bit - Mac OSX Snow Leopard - MacBook Pro 13" i7Core 2.7GHz Sandy Bridge, 8Gb Ram, Intel 520 SSD - Edirol UA-25 - Blue Woodpecker Ribbon - Rode NT5 Condenser - Shure SM57 --- Fender 52 AVRI Telecaster LH - Ovation Special Balladeer LH.
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spacey
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 14:59:36
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Rod, "The scale like most things in music are cyclical, so there will always be two W's followed by an H then three W's followed by an H." I'd re-think that. The Whole Tone scale is one reason.
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Rodar6
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 15:51:46
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Hey Spacey, Think we have a different view on this. The interval pattern you mention is the diatonic scale which contains the modes (ionian) major and (aeolian) natural minor. Diatonic scale - W-W-H-W-W-W-H Whole tone Scale - W-W-W-W-W-W Chromatic Scale - H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Pentatonic Scale - W - H - W+H - W+W - W+W+H Rod :)
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 15:59:52
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I love to the Delorean scale... That certainly takes me back.
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Beagle
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:01:25
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Beagle
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:05:08
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Rodar6
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:21:06
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SteveStrummerUK I love to the Delorean scale... That certainly takes me back.
"Expert in novice advice" Sonar PE 8.5.1 (pre -5,6,7,8) - Logic Pro Studio 9.1.6 - Windows 7 32bit - Mac OSX Snow Leopard - MacBook Pro 13" i7Core 2.7GHz Sandy Bridge, 8Gb Ram, Intel 520 SSD - Edirol UA-25 - Blue Woodpecker Ribbon - Rode NT5 Condenser - Shure SM57 --- Fender 52 AVRI Telecaster LH - Ovation Special Balladeer LH.
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bapu
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:24:36
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SteveStrummerUK I love to the Delorean scale... That certainly takes me back. Deja Woot Woot!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:25:56
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bapu SteveStrummerUK I love to the Delorean scale... That certainly takes me back. Deja Woot Woot! He he, I got one more laugh than Bub I thought I would
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jbow
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 16:58:56
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Yeah... bass and bluegill. I am in search of the lost scale too. What scale was it that Neil Young used in the solo for Cinnamon Girl... I forget? J
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spacey
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/01 21:12:29
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Rodar6 Hey Spacey, Think we have a different view on this. The interval pattern you mention is the diatonic scale which contains the modes (ionian) major and (aeolian) natural minor. Diatonic scale - W-W-H-W-W-W-H Whole tone Scale - W-W-W-W-W-W Chromatic Scale - H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Pentatonic Scale - W - H - W+H - W+W - W+W+H Rod :) Yes I can see now that you did define that you were referring to the diatonic.....in the paragraph before the statement that I quoted....the statement I quoted I took as you were referring to all scales. Now I know you weren't. It also seems you know more about what's going on than it did in your original post. By listing everything you have I would imagine you already know the answer to your original question, "what next?". Now it's much easier to answer you....practice. :)
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Rodar6
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 05:08:55
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Hey Spacey, I've kinda spent the last day or two reading up on all this stuff. Think I needed a bit of guidance, or people to share the info with to get it straight in my head. Now for the practice bit......next up I think I'll go for the Pentatonics. However one burning question still remains (off on a slight tangent) I love playing in Open G tuning an wondering what scale to play it in. Cheers for your input Rod
"Expert in novice advice" Sonar PE 8.5.1 (pre -5,6,7,8) - Logic Pro Studio 9.1.6 - Windows 7 32bit - Mac OSX Snow Leopard - MacBook Pro 13" i7Core 2.7GHz Sandy Bridge, 8Gb Ram, Intel 520 SSD - Edirol UA-25 - Blue Woodpecker Ribbon - Rode NT5 Condenser - Shure SM57 --- Fender 52 AVRI Telecaster LH - Ovation Special Balladeer LH.
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craigb
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 06:21:45
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Guitarhacker the bathroom scale. +231 (but down from +251 in June!) Oh yeah, and I'm pretty good with the G Major scale.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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spacey
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 08:19:59
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Rodar6 Hey Spacey, I've kinda spent the last day or two reading up on all this stuff. Think I needed a bit of guidance, or people to share the info with to get it straight in my head. Now for the practice bit......next up I think I'll go for the Pentatonics. However one burning question still remains (off on a slight tangent) I love playing in Open G tuning an wondering what scale to play it in. Cheers for your input Rod If one thinks about the concept of a particular practice method it is easy to apply the concept to many things that we practice on. For instance; RDL mentioned to you a very good concept and exactly the same one I used. He stated to play the major scale up the neck in seven positions. That concept yields the benefits of learning not only the fretboard and modes but the knowledge of how to practice or concept, if you will. If one applies that concept it answers your question. Play your open G scale starting in the "open" postition ( I guess) and then play in every position up the neck. Naturally the positions are dictated by the tones/intervals of the (major diatonic scale in this example). The choice of "key" to begin the practice is just preference. Some may choose to start with "C" and learn all the natural note locations. The progress through the sharp keys...one sharp, two sharp etc. My suggestion that was based on my belief that you had already accomplished that (playing all the modes) was to play each mode in ONE position. For example; A Ionian (5th position) A dorian (5th position) etc. These two examples are practicing concepts that may apply to many things one may practice on. ( staying in one position or area and then moving up the fretboard) I use to enjoy trying to many different chord scales (harmonized scales) up the fretboard using as many different forms as possible (inversions) and also trying to play chords scale in a closed position or as much as possible. Again it was just applying the concepts of moving and staying in one area. It's also fun...try playing a G harmonized major scale (chords) as close to 3rd position (3rd fret) as you can.
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StevenMikel
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 18:14:13
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The major(ionian),natural minor(aeolian),dorian,and major & minor pentatonics should cover the vast majority of popular music. When I first got serious about playng guitar my mom bought me this poster http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Rock-Guitar-Posters_i309572_.htm and I sat in front of it for hours.Then I stole a jazz scales and modes book(by MelBay) from a girlfriend's older brother then,I found Steve Vai's ten hour work-out.I actually know a dorian and a minor pentatonic every where on the fretboard.
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timidi
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 19:52:36
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I just play off the major scale of whatever major key the song is in. Most popular music is pretty diatonic (meaning major scale oriented). I mean if it's in Am and Bapu is playing bass, You're usually in G or C (don't tell Bapu) . That's a starting point. Then use grace and blue and chromatics notes whenever. I never did get the purpose of: Ionian, dorian, phrygian etc. I mean it's not like if the song is Am dorian you HAVE TO start on the A. It's just in G. They all relate to ONE major scale. So, just use the major scale and whatever other little tricks you got. When you start getting into the weirder scales that have nothing to do with the MAjor scale, That's when it gets really convoluted. I usually don't go there.
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Philip
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 20:06:33
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+1 for beginners and intermediates 10 of the 12 major keys (as per the piano); you/I may never have to play the key of B or Gb in this lifetime (church, gigs, etc.) Our church band restricts to 7 major keys: C, G, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, and Db: The pianist prefers these. (I don't plan on getting advanced anytime soon -- ha ha!)
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geeare1
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 20:55:28
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They all relate to ONE major scale. So, just use the major scale and whatever other little tricks you got. +1
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noldar12
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 21:10:45
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Note thought, in contrast, much traditional folk music is modal: many fiddle tunes are in mixolydian. Curiously, the diatonic frets of the mountain dulcimer generally also reflect the mixolydian mode, though most "modern" dulcimers now include the 6 1/2 fret to provide the leading tone (rather than just having the flatted 7th found in mixolydian mode). Although relating more to classical music than popular, there are actually three forms of the minor scale: natural, harmonic, and composite. The first corresponds to the natural mode. The second keeps the leading tone and has an augmented 2nd between the normally flatted 6th and the raised 7th degrees. Composite minor is played by raising the 6th and 7th degrees when going up the scale (only the third degree remains in minor), and flatting them when going down the scale (a standard scale for pianists, and classical string players). Composite minor is particularly valuable when practicing, as one is forced to used different fingerings when going up and down the scale since the notes of the scale change. Composite Am would look like this going up: A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A and then going down: A, G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
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StevenMikel
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 21:29:27
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timidi hit the nail on the head.The only time(s) you might want/need to know or worry about using one mode or another or an exotic scale is when you get into jazz and/or shredder/instrumental rock.........and sub genres of metal
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ampfixer
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Re:What Scales Do You Actually Know?
2011/09/02 23:52:43
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jbow Yeah... bass and bluegill. I am in search of the lost scale too. What scale was it that Neil Young used in the solo for Cinnamon Girl... I forget? J Hey J, I think Cinamon Girl is played on the guitar tuned to double drop D. High and low E strings tuned down a whole tone. At least I think it's the way Neil Young does it. I think the solo would be something called the single tone scale.
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