"Anyway, just hit CTRL+L to Goove-Clip any loop. "

I've never actually been taht impressed with the looping (maybe I'm doing it wrong)   For example, I record a midi drum loop.   If I loop it, often times things sound off, especially if the midi clip wasn't exactly 4 bars etc.

I use copy and paste most of the time to get away from this, although again, I often have to spend some time lining stuff up (again maybe I'm doing it wrong).

For example, if the first note doesn't come in till 2:1:240, then that's where I would want all the rest of them to start, not at 2:1:000 etc.


Like most problems I just work around it, but if there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

Take the time and fix Sonar with the Feb/March Xb patch...

I have gone back to Sonar 8.53 and have had a smile on my face since I went back...

I would rather wait for a good patch than install a disappointing Xb patch.

Peace

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

Kroneborge


"Anyway, just hit CTRL+L to Goove-Clip any loop. "

I've never actually been taht impressed with the looping (maybe I'm doing it wrong)   For example, I record a midi drum loop.   If I loop it, often times things sound off, especially if the midi clip wasn't exactly 4 bars etc.

I use copy and paste most of the time to get away from this, although again, I often have to spend some time lining stuff up (again maybe I'm doing it wrong).

For example, if the first note doesn't come in till 2:1:240, then that's where I would want all the rest of them to start, not at 2:1:000 etc.


Like most problems I just work around it, but if there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

Well, ya the loop has to be 4 bars or close to it, otherwise SONAR will take its best guess as to how many bars the clip is and could end up looping it at points you didn't want. To overcome this just slip edit the ends of the clip to the measure points, then Apply Trimming, and it should loop OK.

I guess what I'm saying is I would think this would be the default way things are done.   If I record notes between 1:2:240 and 4:4:480,   you would think the clip would default to being 4 measures long, IE it would have the deadspace at the end.  
 
To put it another way, I would think the defualt record option would be that recording stretch out to the nearest measure, and then if you wanted it shorter, THEN trim. 

Crush

Kroneborge


"Anyway, just hit CTRL+L to Goove-Clip any loop. "

I've never actually been taht impressed with the looping (maybe I'm doing it wrong)   For example, I record a midi drum loop.   If I loop it, often times things sound off, especially if the midi clip wasn't exactly 4 bars etc.

I use copy and paste most of the time to get away from this, although again, I often have to spend some time lining stuff up (again maybe I'm doing it wrong).

For example, if the first note doesn't come in till 2:1:240, then that's where I would want all the rest of them to start, not at 2:1:000 etc.


Like most problems I just work around it, but if there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

Exactly this is my point. That guy is just full of hot air on a mission to discredit people by calling them racist etc.

People who actually use the software for electronic music (a minority of users it seems) will quickly find out these flaws.

The loop and snap with align is all broken. If that's the case, the fix will not be simple.

Loop and Snap are not "all broken". Check my post above for the explanation of changing a normal clip into a Groove Clip (loop). As for Snap, it has several grades of magnetic strength. the Snap section of Properties and change Magnetic Strength to High or None and your clips will snap much "harder" to snap values.

Well, ya the loop has to be 4 bars or close to it, otherwise SONAR will take its best guess as to how many bars the clip is and could end up looping it at points you didn't want. To overcome this just slip edit the ends of the clip to the measure points, then Apply Trimming, and it should loop OK.

But that is a work around to get something that 'should' work a certain way rather than acknowledging the software is falling short with a design flaw. FL, Maschine and Ableton as well as others will SNAP to 4 bars, record and loop where markers are set regardless. It's a math calculation in stone. It will always be dragable and loopable. If Sonar X1 is not, then there is a serious design flow that will take a long time to fix.

I can't describe to you the importance of this. I have 900 views on my video already getting asked in PM's if I recommend it over FL studio because people are fed up with illogical FL arrangement and vocal recording.. The home 'beat producer' market is huge. We don't have the highest IQ's in the world and we're not engineers. But we are a massive market worldwide.. We want easy results out the box and Sonar X1 surprisingly comes close as my video proves, but I can't stress enough the importance of snap and looping with no user interference and after touch-ups. Also the drums are very close but again fall short.

Take the step sequencer. You should be able to add 5 sequence lines into a single channel EASILY (remember the IQ thing). You should be able to drag and drop .wav's into them and then have each one bound to their own 'drop zone' for edit. Ableton and FL already have this kind of functionality. I can't stress the importance of this. If you just did this, I would wager over time that Sonar X1 would become the new standard for the home beat market (which is way bigger than the studio market).

Remember it's not about what the software CAN do, it's what it SHOULD do.

Crush

Well, ya the loop has to be 4 bars or close to it, otherwise SONAR will take its best guess as to how many bars the clip is and could end up looping it at points you didn't want. To overcome this just slip edit the ends of the clip to the measure points, then Apply Trimming, and it should loop OK.

But that is a work around to get something that 'should' work a certain way rather than acknowledging the software is falling short with a design flaw. FL, Maschine and Ableton as well as others will SNAP to 4 bars, record and loop where markers are set regardless. It's a math calculation in stone. It will always be dragable and loopable. If Sonar X1 is not, then there is a serious design flow that will take a long time to fix.

I can't describe to you the importance of this. I have 900 views on my video already getting asked in PM's if I recommend it over FL studio because people are fed up with illogical FL arrangement and vocal recording.. The home 'beat producer' market is huge. We don't have the highest IQ's in the world and we're not engineers. But we are a massive market worldwide.. We want easy results out the box and Sonar X1 surprisingly comes close as my video proves, but I can't stress enough the importance of snap and looping with no user interference and after touch-ups. Also the drums are very close but again fall short.

Take the step sequencer. You should be able to add 5 sequence lines into a single channel EASILY (remember the IQ thing). You should be able to drag and drop .wav's into them and then have each one bound to their own 'drop zone' for edit. Ableton and FL already have this kind of functionality. I can't stress the importance of this. If you just did this, I would wager over time that Sonar X1 would become the new standard for the home beat market (which is way bigger than the studio market).

Remember it's not about what the software CAN do, it's what it SHOULD do.

+1 fonted for truth.

Us engineers have a different point of view about this.

Why should SONAR be locked to 4 bar loops? What about my projects that are in 3/4? Maybe I want 2 measure or 3 measure loops. What about 8, 6, 12, 24? 4 and a half for a guitar riff that goes 'over the bar'?

Who cares that you have 900 views on your youtube video.... the sneezing panda has millions of hits.

Your point about the step sequencer is silly. It produces MIDI that you route through a synth. It's not an MPC. Maybe you should just use Ableton and FL?

"We want easy results out the box" There is no free lunch. You want easy...use an MPC.

Just because you think a specific program should work a certain way doesn't mean the rest of us or the developers think it should.

Crush


The point is that it snaps and loops and does what's logical.

When you start the software it needs a record mode for you guys, and then a snap loop mode for us.

That's how you improve the software.

The updates to Cubase 6 is all geared toward live recording. It doesn't help the electronic beat maker.

Ableton is geared towards more Euro style live techno DJ's. I think Rank 1 started this sort of laptop DJ'ing back in the day.

While yes it has what I need, the arrangement is like FL - a toy.

As odd as it sounds.. it could be.. possibly, that X1 is the closest to what a person like me is looking for. But wow does it fall short with the grid, align, snap, and ease of use. If they would just 'fix' these things it could mean big things for Sonar cause all the FL users are looking for a way out.

If you want to record your guitars and such, the windows sound recorder does a great job. There's also really good hardware units that sample at a very high rate and the inputs and quality are excellent.

Snap and loop works fine for me.

You can't have 1 piece of software do everything. Have you ever heard 'expert of most, master of none' ? It's analogous to trying to open a can with a hammer. You can do it, but...poorly.

I think grid, align, snap, and all the things you want 'fixed' are really fine and you want SONAR to be something other than what it is.

SONAR is to ProTools is to Logic. They geared towards 'us'.

What kind of remark are you trying to make with your last comment? It's asinine and has no bearing on the current discussion. I mean, I don't understand why you're even here, SONAR is just made by out sourced help from the developing 3rd world. *rolls eyes*

Snap and loop works fine for me. You can't have 1 piece of software do everything. Have you ever heard 'expert of most, master of none' ? It's analogous to trying to open a can with a hammer. You can do it, but...poorly. I think grid, align, snap, and all the things you want 'fixed' are really fine and you want SONAR to be something other than what it is. SONAR is to ProTools is to Logic. They geared towards 'us'.

 
I actually disagree.  I think host software (such as Sonar) can be all things.   I actually feel 8.5.3 (and the "potential" of X1) can do just about anything, give or take a few rough spots (gapless audio, bugs discounted).
 
BUT, if CW were to dig in to some of these things I honestly do feel it would be hard to beat Sonar at almost anything.
 
Sure, some apps (like LIVE) take a differrent approach to some things, but then it has its limits.   A well-rounded sequencer/host app should not really have any limitations if it's not a 'specialized' app.
Sonar comes real close to being this "well rounded" app compared to the others I use or have tried.
 
 

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

SoundBank


Why not a sequential weekly, biweekly updates in the meantime?
1a1   tomorrow
1a2   in a week
1a3  
1a4
then...the bigger 1B in March?

Not a bad idea, but updates require an extensive amount of testing, so a weekly update could cause more problems than it solves. 

Exactly. Take your time. It will be ready when it is ready and when QA says so. Please ignore our pleas to get it out the door quickly and get it out the door when it is ready. There is a thing called the 80/20 rule. i.e. You release it when you are 80% certain it is stable. I tend to go for the 95/5 rule.

Well I'm using Ableton right now.. and while it is interesting, the issue again becomes the 'final mix'. It's more of a toy like FL when compared to the final mix.

There is a long thread on the Ableton forum about if people actually use it for mixing. Here's what some said:

"mixing in ableton makes me crazy. i prefer logic / protools / reaper / more traditional DAWs. just faster (keystrokes) and more options for routing and automation."

"Not anymore - ... lack of basic everyday audio functions and features... More like a toy, then a serious production tool these days.. It's fun to doodle in and get some out of the box ideas, but there's no possible way to take this program seriously anymore like I tried to in my previous state of mind."

Surprisingly, a lot of people said Reaper because of it's speed.

I feel Sonar X1 is very, very close to being 'that tool' for everyone. That 'Sony Vegas' that can be used for anything. Sony Vegas is used for home users, TV shows, and Movies.. anything video. It's 10/10 software. The audio is actually so good and easy that it's used by some country singers according to wikipedia. If I just showed you in 2 min what I can do just with audio in Sony Vegas you'd be amazed at the ease of use.

It's so close, yet so far.

This teenage girl from the UK who is an FL producer (like everyone else) has to make her beats in FL, use the stock compressors and such which sound BAD, have her stuff clumsily put together and sounds amateur. She uses some Adobe Audition or some free CD she got with her USB mic package to record vocals into wav. Then she painstakingly has to bring the wave into FL and chop things up and she can't take it anymore and asked if Sonar X1 was worth moving to.

I had to tell her no because the Snap/Align/Loop and Drag And Drop into the step sequencer isn't there for her. She's just a kid not and not a computer person or audio engineer but she DID like my videos because I made it look so easy.

I have actually had a total of 4 requests of younger hip hop producers asking about Sonar X1 as an FL alternative and I can't recommend it to these people due to the issues it has.

Again it's so close.. yet so far.

Crush
If I just showed you in 2 min what I can do just with audio in Sony Vegas you'd be amazed at the ease of use. 

Well you can just make yet another of your famous tutorial videos. Sheesh you're on another thread here bragging about how awesome StudioOne is, you're on here bragging about Vegas, and also learning Live apparently. You were on that OTHER thread talking about Cubase...


Did someone just find a great torrent site?


I'm holding out hope you're actually an avatar for an ad firm that specializes in trolling techniques on user forums. At least then there's an interesting sub-plot to all these shenanigans.