What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects?

Author
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
2018/02/27 03:34:21 (permalink)

What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects?

I'm sure I've heard other people mention these but I can't remember if the question was ever answered. Oftentimes I will see very thin "slivers" of clips on a track, and no matter how far I zoom in, they don't get any wider. However, I can marquee them and see that they're selected, and then delete them. Seems like one of those silly Sonar bugs but I'm genuinely curious how they came to be. I just opened a project with a track that I had dragged a sample from the browser onto the last time I worked on it - I didn't move this clip around, or edit it or split it or anything like that, and yet there was a sliver of something further up the track that I ended up deleting. What the hell are they? 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#1

10 Replies Related Threads

    czyky
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 193
    • Joined: 2003/11/26 19:22:17
    • Location: libertyville, illinois
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 05:24:07 (permalink)
    Sharke, (hey, it that e silent or what? Are you "shark" or "shark-ee"?)
    I get those slivers if I use something like geist (don't you use that?) and control it via midi. Every time I press a keyboard key on my controller during record (to, say, change to a different preset), Sonar saves each keypress as a new clip.
     
    Have you ever viewed events (event list Alt+8) for a track with all those slivers? Are they tied to actual midi events, or just some sort of ghosts?
     
    Jes' saying, those slivers bug me too. The one's I see are legit (as described above), so what I do is lasso them and bounce to clip, so they are one familiar long midi clip.

    "I can't think of a single example of where a big company buying a small company has ultimately been good for consumers." --bitflipper
    www.reverbnation.com/markadamczyk
    www.adamczyk.com
    #2
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 06:01:52 (permalink)
    czyky
    Sharke, (hey, it that e silent or what? Are you "shark" or "shark-ee"?)

     
    I have no idea. I honestly never thought that far ahead!
     

    I get those slivers if I use something like geist (don't you use that?) and control it via midi. Every time I press a keyboard key on my controller during record (to, say, change to a different preset), Sonar saves each keypress as a new clip.
     
    Have you ever viewed events (event list Alt+8) for a track with all those slivers? Are they tied to actual midi events, or just some sort of ghosts?
     
    Jes' saying, those slivers bug me too. The one's I see are legit (as described above), so what I do is lasso them and bounce to clip, so they are one familiar long midi clip.




     
    I use Geist, but I don't control it via MIDI. I do all of the sequencing within Geist and then bounce to audio. Besides, these are slivers on audio tracks. I dare say I have seen them on MIDI tracks at some point as well though. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #3
    Lord Tim
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 837
    • Joined: 2003/11/10 10:33:43
    • Location: Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 06:40:03 (permalink)
    For me it happens when a crossfaded clip is nudged. Not every time, mind you, and not in every project either. In our big live album project, this was a major headache, especially since it was a 70 minute long session with a lot of cuts over that 70 minutes...!

    WWW: www.lord.net.au  FB: www.facebook.com/lordtimofficial
    Bandlab: www.bandlab.com/lordtim
     
    Cakewalk by Bandlab / DAW: i7 M620 @ 2.67 GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win10 64 Bit [eng], TASCAM US-16x08 @ 5.8ms (22.7ms RTL) ASIO, Behringer UMX61 Keyboard Controller.
    #4
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 06:42:46 (permalink)
    Weird. Perhaps that's what it was. Mind you, I rarely use nudge if ever. Can't rule it out though. Another problem I've seen recently is that all MIDI clips in a project have been nudged forward by 8 ticks. Every single one! But not the audio clips. If it was all of my clips I could imagine a scenario wherein I'd selected everything and accidentally nudged it. But just the MIDI clips? Sonar you strange beast lol.....

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #5
    Lord Tim
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 837
    • Joined: 2003/11/10 10:33:43
    • Location: Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 06:45:40 (permalink)
    Came up against that one recently too. It's pretty rare for me to have MIDI timing issues like that (and I get nothing like the craziness you've had - I'd be looking elsewhere too if my workflow was that impacted) but yeah, definitely some anomalies going on for sure.

    WWW: www.lord.net.au  FB: www.facebook.com/lordtimofficial
    Bandlab: www.bandlab.com/lordtim
     
    Cakewalk by Bandlab / DAW: i7 M620 @ 2.67 GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win10 64 Bit [eng], TASCAM US-16x08 @ 5.8ms (22.7ms RTL) ASIO, Behringer UMX61 Keyboard Controller.
    #6
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/27 06:48:30 (permalink)
    I looked elsewhere - Reaper and Bitwig - and I'm in DAW heaven! Still have to use Sonar in the transferral of projects across though. Although I guess the issues I have are now less annoying knowing that I no longer have to put up with them going forward. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #7
    jackson white
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 283
    • Joined: 2008/02/19 21:35:13
    • Location: BOS
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/28 16:08:04 (permalink)
    Ah yes, the "splinters" and the bane of my editing workflow in take lanes. IME, these "orphan" clips are created when any portion of any concurrent clip in any lane falls outside the swipe selection of a clip in one lane. They block the selective slip editing of other clips (depending when they are created/edited?) which is annoying and are a likely suspect for the only conditions which will consistently crash SONAR for me. 
     
    In practice one tends to run with a feature until boundary conditions are encountered. I often generate 10-20 take lanes when tracking free form vox or lead instrument solos and "cross-comp" between the takes. (By "cross-comp", I mean >1 one concurrent clip with differing lengths will be selected/active.) 
     
    To be fair, I can see how keeping track of so many edit complications could lead to an unstable project state given both how easy and flexible/free of restrictions it is to edit clips in take lanes in SONAR. 
     
    I've tried to do this in SO3 and it does not seem to support the same degree of flexibility which might be a design choice to maintain the integrity of the project. 
     
    My workflow practice includes saving constantly, deleting splinters, clearing undo history, eliminating redundant takes and moving "keeper" takes to their own track as soon as possible to cut down on the amount of active edit states that have to be maintained. Even with the additional "housekeeping" I find I am significantly faster and more productive using SONAR than an alternative. 
     
     
     

    --------------------
    Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
    #8
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/28 18:13:55 (permalink)
    jackson white
    IME, these "orphan" clips are created when any portion of any concurrent clip in any lane falls outside the swipe selection of a clip in one lane.



    That sounds like the normally expected result of using the Comping tool. When working near the ends of overlapping takes that weren't done by punching in or loop-recording with identical start/end times, you can end up with small segments of slightly longer takes being split off. But that's different from the zero-length slivers that Sharke's talking about, and not unexpected.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #9
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/02/28 19:02:02 (permalink)
    Yeah I rarely use comping and yet they're all over my projects.

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #10
    jackson white
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 283
    • Joined: 2008/02/19 21:35:13
    • Location: BOS
    • Status: offline
    Re: What are those little fragments of clips I see all over my projects? 2018/03/01 16:24:25 (permalink)
    @brundlefly
     
    Thx for the clarification. Either my workflow or zoom level is different enough to realize the splinters are "zero" length and a different issue. Will have to keep a closer eye on this.
     
    Completely wishful thinking, but something like a "clip quantize margin" setting could be useful for cleaning up rogue splinters/slivers. 
     
     
     
     

    --------------------
    Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
    #11
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1