jeffb01
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What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
I own both and love them greatly and I use them often. I've always been a little lost when it comes to programming them but I'm starting to feel more comfortable.
I'm thinking of just working with rapture as I can't find anything that dimpro can do that rapture can't. On the other hand, I can find many things rapture can do that dimpro can't (step generator, six sound generators, etc.). I know dimpro comes with a great sound library and to me is well worth the money for that alone, but I can bring the sfz files into rapture.
This is not a dis against dimpro in any way. I'm just wondering from a programming point of view, does dimpro offer anything that rapture can't? (even when working with longer samples)
thanks.
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joshhunsaker
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/02 03:15:16
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rapture can't do rex files and (afaik) draggable midi riffs and may not have some of the sfz implementations like piano resonance and sustain modeling that dim pro does. apart from that - it's all in the libraries. I would definitely have gotten rapture if i realized this at first. the library that dim pro has simply pales in comparison to say the library offered by kontact 3... i personally don't have a clue why they are two different products. It's a little dumb, really. They should have just combined all the features and offered the 8 gb library as an add-on... ...then again - they wouldn't be making as much money this way.
post edited by joshhunsaker - 2007/11/02 03:28:36
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OldNick
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/02 09:41:31
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Heh! <G> ORIGINAL: joshhunsaker
rapture can't do rex files and (afaik) draggable midi riffs and may not have some of the sfz implementations like piano resonance and sustain modeling that dim pro does.
apart from that - it's all in the libraries. I would definitely have gotten rapture if i realized this at first. the library that dim pro has simply pales in comparison to say the library offered by kontact 3...
i personally don't have a clue why they are two different products. It's a little dumb, really. They should have just combined all the features and offered the 8 gb library as an add-on...
...then again - they wouldn't be making as much money this way.
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René
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/02 15:46:52
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There are hundreds of differences between Dimension Pro and Rapture, but as we have made very common the external appearance it looks as they're identical.
Appart from the very obvious ones (REX/RX2/RCY support, draggable MIDI clips, bus effects, etc.) the engine in Dimension Pro is crafted/optimized towards sample playback, while in Rapture towards Oscillator/Wavetable playback. Dimension Pro will make a much better job in playing orchestral type libraries, while Rapture doing techno/trance sounds in terms of resulting quality and resource efficiency.
There's actually nothing which would indicate that the same user who needs a solo bassoon is going to need an out-of-the world pad. Dimension Pro is aimed to the first group, Rapture to the second.
The library in Kontakt 3 is cool certainly. I don't know if as cool as to cost 2.5 times more as Dimension Pro though :-)
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OldNick
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/02 21:53:00
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Which is not to say you can't get some really freaky sounds out of DimPro. It just takes a bit more mucking about. It is quite possible to take a nice strings section and make it completely unrecognisable as such, in Dim Pro.  I was trialing another VST synth (which I then found I could not buy anyway) which is entirely "analogue" in feel and very much aimed at cross-modulation, mixing and filtering, and making warm, fat or freaky sounds. But then I went back to Dim Pro and came very close to the same sound in quite a short time. The "analogue" one was just more fun to play with. Nick
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mumpcake
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/03 10:36:23
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There's actually nothing which would indicate that the same user who needs a solo bassoon is going to need an out-of-the world pad. Thanks for inspiring my next track.
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kwgm
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/03 14:56:23
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ORIGINAL: René
...
There's actually nothing which would indicate that the same user who needs a solo bassoon is going to need an out-of-the world pad. Dimension Pro is aimed to the first group, Rapture to the second.
Rene, Why would you say this? Please don't start believing the marketing department! :#) I understand your statement probably represents to bulk of your sales, but I'm sure you realize that a composer these days works in all kinds of musical "genres", and those of us who work in the film world might imagine using an oboe and a spacey pad in the same number. Can't you hear the melody coming through the clouds? The sonic possibilities are much wider thanks to people like yourself, and it's made it a lot of fun! I'm a big fan of both applications, by the way, and I'm learning to now use Pentagon, also, as a replacement for SynthEdit plugins. If Cakewalk wants to keep them as two products, no problem. One suggestion--if it is at all possible, perhaps you could make a dual install version that shares the Multisample library. I use the excellent Mutisamples freely in each program, and I have used shortcuts to quickly move from one synth's root folder to the other's. It would be very convenient to access one central Multisample folder, and keep separate Program folders for each synth. I realize the sfz files also have to know definitively where this folder is, so this is not a trivial problem to solve. Perhaps more of a file management issue than a programming issue? Anyway, thanks again. regards, Kurt W.G. Matthies
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joshhunsaker
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/03 15:42:34
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ORIGINAL: René
The library in Kontakt 3 is cool certainly. I don't know if as cool as to cost 2.5 times more as Dimension Pro though :-)
It only costs twice as much. The library is more than 4 times as big (33 gb)and the functionality of the sampling engine is easily 4 times as powerful (fully featured sample editing and zoning, scripting engine, included convolution, disk-streaming, etc.) I like dimension pro to be sure...but (for example) i was thoroughly unimpressed by the say the drum kits (seeing all the kits shared either the same kick or snare or high hats and only had very limited types of drums in each of the 60 odd "kits"...sneaky sneaky...) So needless to say i never use the "drum kits" in dimension pro because they are all basically the same weak sounding rock kit. On the other hand dim pro has wonderful strings sounds, really good ambient pads/craziness, good fx, an relatively easy layout (the modulation is still confusing as crap to me...), and great support. so there are tradeoffs either way.
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Trusty
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/03 19:19:52
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The main gripes I have about Dimension Pro is:
1. Too many synth sounds when they were making another synth to compliment Dimension (Rapture).
2. Not near enough brass and choir patches. They really need to fix this to make it a competing rompler.
3. Too many oddball variations on realistic instrument patches, and not enough "regular, straight-forward" realistic patches.
That's all "content" complaints though, the sampling synth itself is flawless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love it.
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lawapa
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/03 23:14:19
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rompler This is not the design__ But it can be used this way. As for weak spots in the included set___ third party sounds are available and conversion to sfz is possible in most sample management software. Open formats for third party inclusion is the best way to go. You then chose your content as you like it and with an eye toward what you want and use. The included content is at best a way to show off the potiential not that what is there is less than really good.
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peek
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/06 10:24:28
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There's actually nothing which would indicate that the same user who needs a solo bassoon is going to need an out-of-the world pad. Oh, René, you have obviously not heard the stuff I compose. ROTFL!, (but not at you). I try to use them all. By the way, I am happy with Dimension Pro, and do not at this time feel the need to get Rapture, since I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of Dim Pro.
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duglmac
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/06 13:24:17
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ORIGINAL: kwgm
If Cakewalk wants to keep them as two products, no problem. One suggestion--if it is at all possible, perhaps you could make a dual install version that shares the Multisample library. I use the excellent Mutisamples freely in each program, and I have used shortcuts to quickly move from one synth's root folder to the other's. It would be very convenient to access one central Multisample folder, and keep separate Program folders for each synth. I realize the sfz files also have to know definitively where this folder is, so this is not a trivial problem to solve. Perhaps more of a file management issue than a programming issue?
Rene, I second that request. I have both Rapture and Dim Pro, and I find myself interchanging the multisamples all the time. It occurred to me that it would be more efficient if there was a 'shared' multisample library where both could be combined, and only have those things that need to be dedictaed in the individual directories. It wouldn't have to hurt the separate identity of the products. Each could install their libraries into the shared area upin installation, as Kurt suggests. This would especially be usefull as I add multisample libraries, either my own or from others that contribute here on the forums. Doug
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René
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/06 18:24:59
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I understand your statement probably represents to bulk of your sales, but I'm sure you realize that a composer these days works in all kinds of musical "genres", and those of us who work in the film world might imagine using an oboe and a spacey pad in the same number. Can't you hear the melody coming through the clouds?
The sonic possibilities are much wider thanks to people like yourself, and it's made it a lot of fun! I didn't mean to say that Dimension Pro is just suited to do real acoustic emulations. Actually, I crafted most of the 'Dimension' type patches on it: the goal was to twist reality to the max using synthesis. However, Rapture is very different. Hundreds of parameters which exist in both Dimension and Rapture, and are apparently identical in both, have different range, curve, tracking, etc. We wanted Rapture to be the option for those making Electronica music, as the successor of z3ta+. In some ways, we succeeded on that. There are many compromises when playing a simple sample or wavetable, affecting sound quality, range of synthesis and resources usage. In an ideal world with unlimited processing power, Rapture and Dimension Pro could be a single instrument. But as soon as more computer power is available, we use it to do something more. If you compare the resources taken for a heavy wavetable oriented patch, it's going to be way lower in Rapture. If you compare the noise level and aliasing when playing a long sample, Dimension Pro is going to be better. There are hundreds of those details which aren't apparent, and are actually well hidden behind the similar appearance, interface layout and navigation similarity. Regarding sharing the multisamples folder. When we released Rapture, we were thinking that the 20MB factory set of wavetables wouldn't actually grow much, and that was actually a good thing (think z3ta+). Wrong we were, there are now gigabytes of libs for it. Fortunately, there's a way to make Rapture point to anywhere for multisamples just adding a registry key. I don't recall it from the top of my head, but I posted instructions on how to get that done in this forum a while ago. Rapture 2 or whatever we call the successor of Rapture will most likely feature a superb selector to pick the multisamples folder.
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techead
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/06 23:34:12
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ORIGINAL: René
Regarding sharing the multisamples folder. When we released Rapture, we were thinking that the 20MB factory set of wavetables wouldn't actually grow much, and that was actually a good thing (think z3ta+). Wrong we were, there are now gigabytes of libs for it. Fortunately, there's a way to make Rapture point to anywhere for multisamples just adding a registry key. I don't recall it from the top of my head, but I posted instructions on how to get that done in this forum a while ago.
Rapture 2 or whatever we call the successor of Rapture will most likely feature a superb selector to pick the multisamples folder.
Expression Engine Multisample Relocation
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jeffb01
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/07 02:21:37
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ORIGINAL: René
Rapture 2 or whatever we call the successor of Rapture...
I can't wait (though I'm still getting my head around rapture 1.1. What kind of time frame are you thinking?
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duglmac
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/07 12:00:15
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ORIGINAL: techead
ORIGINAL: René
Regarding sharing the multisamples folder. When we released Rapture, we were thinking that the 20MB factory set of wavetables wouldn't actually grow much, and that was actually a good thing (think z3ta+). Wrong we were, there are now gigabytes of libs for it. Fortunately, there's a way to make Rapture point to anywhere for multisamples just adding a registry key. I don't recall it from the top of my head, but I posted instructions on how to get that done in this forum a while ago.
Rapture 2 or whatever we call the successor of Rapture will most likely feature a superb selector to pick the multisamples folder.
Expression Engine Multisample Relocation
Much obliged. I will try that. Thanks
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Nick P
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/07 16:37:43
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Hey guys - keep it simple. Use Rapture for synth stuff, DimPro for emulative stuff, and have a Coke and a smile 
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doc_drop
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/07 17:28:15
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One thing I find is that they both have distinct "sounds" to them. The same .sfz doesn't sound the same loaded into an element of Rapture as it does in Dimension. I imagine it has to do with the different synth engines Rene describes. To me Dimension has an open airy sound. Rapture has a more DSP intensive sound? (I don't know how to describe it, but I hear it. Almost like a subtle bit reduction-ish sound.)
Rapture begs to have the DSP knobs tweaked. Dimension doesn't beg to be tweaked quite as much.
Has anyone else noticed they have a different "sound"? Or maybe there is some placebo effect happening?...
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lawapa
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/08 00:07:58
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On this end they compliment each other very well. Add the z3ta cause its diff too and way cool.
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Nick P
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/08 01:21:20
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I agree - they both have their own "sound". But that may be subjective. All I know is that I dig the old analog poly-synths of the early 1980s, and Rapture can deliver on that fatness. Plus it has a ton of cool tweaking and programming opportunities such as the step generators.
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vespesian
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/08 09:40:50
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Definitely. Love the way sounds in rapture kinda rumble, shimmer & twist.
You're in an amazing state. So stay there.
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doc_drop
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RE: What can dimpro do that rapture can't...
2007/11/08 12:06:09
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Oh, I love then both! No question about that.
I have made some of the fatest, most controller intensive patches I have ever heard, much less played, with Rapture.
I also have some beautiful mutated string patches I translated from Kurzweil format programs into .sfz's for Dimension Pro.
They are both great synths!
Doc_DROP
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