What do I need to start recording?

Hi -
Ridiculously naive question, but I'm wondering if I will need anything else once I buy MC5 to help my son begin recording.

We have a mixing desk with USB connection and a standard desktop PC with onboard sound (no sound card). If I install MC5 onto this and connect the mixing desk, do I need a soundcard as well (or should the mixing desk be connected into a soundcard rather than into a USB port)?

So far we have just been using the mixer to connect guitars, keyboards and microphones and have the output coming through a single set of speakers, but they would like to begin recording some of their stuff and I'm not sure what the basic requirements are.

Regards, Steve.

Hi Beagle -
Thanks for the reply - I'll have a look around your website. The mixing desk is a Phonic Powerpod K-12 plus powered mixer, and I'm sorry I misled you - I thought it had a USB port in the back to connect to a PC but it doesn't. It's quite a complex piece of equipment but I'm now not sure whether it's suitable for recording from? It has standard audio out sockets which I guess will just connect into the PCs onboard sound.

We were given this mixer by a friend and it's been very good for playing directly through speakers, but I'm not sure it's the most suitable thing to use when trying to make and mix recordings.

As you can tell, I'm not starting from a position of great knowledge I'm afraid...

I use a Yamaha mixer very similar to yours. I can record with the on board card, but do not like the total sound with it. I use an M-Audio 24/96 delta card, and love it. What you need to think about is how many inputs you need. For me one or two is fine. If your son is going to record with friends you might want to upgrade at some point to a multi input interface.

Even though the mixer has many inputs it will only send out on stereo output so that means either one stereo track, or two mono tracks at a time. But that is a great place to start. look on the music town link on either mine or Beagles post, and under tutorials and tech notes, there is a thread about attaching to a mixer, follow those instructions.

Robomusic's point about the mixer only having stereo outputs is particularly relevant to MC; all versions of MC only allow 2-input recording, either 1 stereo or 2 mono (except MC Pro 24, which allowed 4).

that will be fine.  just remember as greg said that MC only allows TWO of those inputs to be recorded at the same time.  to get more inputs available simultaneously, you'll have to upgrade to Sonar X1 Essentials, Studio or Producer.

The Delta 1010 is a great card, and has a long driver history. The only thing to consider is how you are going to front that card. What i mean by that is it will still need some pre amps and or a multitrack interface to send all the inputs into a Software system. Some mixers have channel inserts and that works good, others do not. Mine does not have that so i am limited to one or two inputs. That is okay for now. I am looking to upgrade soon, as i am having more request to record friends.  Ask around a bit on the sonar forum, there are a few folks there using the 1010lt, and can give some input as to interfaces, or save up a bit more and get a nice USB or Firewire interface.

OK, well I'm learning a good lesson in humility here. I now know how my father-in-law feels when he can't get his computer to do what he wants to do...

I've installed the 1010LT and while awaiting the arrival of MC5 I just thought I'd try to get it working in the most basic way, and am finding I don't even have the vocabulary to describe what I can't get it to do. If you have time to help me feel a little less clueless I'd be grateful:

1 I set the card up in Windows multimedia/audio settings (m-audio delta 1010LT 1/2? there are a number of different 1010LT devices listed - I also tried the multi one)

2 First I thought I'd get it to behave like a normal soundcard, so for example to output music from a CD or even just some windows noises through some speakers. And I can't even do that. The enormous bunch of spaghetti that is 'break-out' cable no. 2 contains eight RCA leads (red and white in colour as I'd expect) which are analogue out. But how do I tell which are a pair, never mind pair number 1, 2 etc? They don't seem to be numbered. I've tried various combinations, plugging the other end into the powered mixer input with not a sound coming out of them.

3 I've got a microphone registering input but I can't really check it until I can get something coming back out.

The control panel (m-audio card software) is registering any music I play on the PC perfectly happily, but I can't see how to get any output and I have no idea how to choose or set up the RCA analogue output cables to play through headphones or speakers.

Apologies - I did mention that I know nothing didn't I?

you can set it up in windows as your primary soundcard so that you can use it for CD's and windows media player, etc.  BUT...
 
You'll need the owner's manual to figure out which cables are which.  I would suggest setting it up with just OUTPUT 1 & 2 for your stereo speakers, but without the manual I can't tell you which ones those are either.

but don't select MULTI as your output for windows, select the first audio analog 1 & 2 outputs.  MULTI, IIRC is for monitoring mix (kind of like the soundblaster "what you hear")

also, you say you've got a microphone registering input, did you set up the 2 jumpers on the PCI card for the 2 MIC inputs?  they need to be set correctly for you to have a microphone preamp.  and again, I can't tell you how to set them because I only set them once.  5 years ago.  you'll need the manual.

Pre amp..... a device that takes the weak mic signal and boosts it a bit .  Some mics have a very low output and need to be boosted.

There are dedicated pre amps, but many people will use a small mixer board to do the pre amp job. The dedicated pres can be rather expensive, but they impart a unique color to the amplification that the users are looking for. A mixer will boost the signal but often doesn't add a coloration to the sound.

Some interfaces have built in preamps. My Focusrite is one brand that has really sweet pres built in.  Look in the user manual and it will tell you if there is a pre in it. If there is not mention of a pre it likely doesn't have one.

If you plug in a mic and can not get a strong signal, you might need a pre.... but,  Be sure all the software settings are up to proper levels before buying a pre.

Many of the interfaces have a software control panel where you set the input levels.... be sure that these are turned up.

NOTE: don't overlook the windows sound mixer window since that can also affect the soundcard IF it's in the signal loop to the card.

Thanks both. Crikey, I thought home recording was just about musicians plugging in some instruments and pressing 'record'. Didn't realise you needed to be a rocket scientist...

well, and like I said, most of that stuff I talked about above isn't even computer related - that's all stuff you have to know just for plugging equipement together for playing or recording - no computer required.

Once you get it set up, it will be (should be, maybe ) as easy as plugging in, setting the correct input for the track, maybe hitting a switch on the interface for phantom power or instrument level, clicking Arm, setting the record level, then clicking Record.
I've found it much easier than tape recording. No rewinding to the beginning for 2 minutes while you twiddle your thumbs, waiting.  No searching the tape for that middle break you want to redo (set a marker at that break and simply select that marker to rewind to). Second chorus a little weak? Just split it out, delete it and copy the good first chorus to the second.
Having trouble getting that lead guitar part right? Loop record that section on different tracks and pick the best one, or different parts of each track to make one killer guitar solo.
It's so simple even I can do it. Barely graduated high school, never went to college, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a few years ago.

Thanks for that Greg. I think you understate the expertise you've absorbed over the years though. Coming at it from the beginning I have a fresh respect for audio engineers and the knowledge you take for granted!

Hey Steve,
 Just looked up the input possibilities on your 1010LT.
  You have the following input options: XLR inputs / RCA line inputs / SPDIF inputs.

You'll probably use the RCA line inputs. The Guitar or Bass will need to be conditioned to line level to connect to your RCA Line inputs.  A preamp would probably suffice, but many here use a line level mixer (unlike your power mixer) to condition their inputs.  You could also mike your guitar or bass amp using the XLR mic inputs.

If you plan on using your Yamaha midi Keyboard, you will need to load the drivers for the keyboard into your computer. Make sure you load the most up to date drivers for the Operating System that is on your computer.
Once the software is installed and the keyboard (hardware) is connected up, MC5 should recognize your midi keyboard. Good luck.
 

Thanks both. Just to make sure I'm not misunderstanding, can I recap:

One suggestion is to use the two XLR inputs. This would involve buying a jack adapter for the guitar inputs - something like this?

Alternatively I could use a preamp to interface between the guitars and the 1010LT? Presumably then, a preamp has a quarter inch jack socket to plug the guitar into, and then an RCA output to connect to the 1010? Is there a chance you could link to an example of this kind of equipment?

Finally I could use a line level mixer. Again I guess that this would enable you to plug one or more quarter inch jacks into it, and have the output connected to the soundcard via RCA jacks? Again, would it be possible to suggest a make or link to an example? At the moment it feels like I keep missing a vital ingredient and not being able to get going.

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.