M_Glenn_M
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What does "out of phase" sound like?
I hear lots of cautions about it but until I hear an A/B example of it I won't know it when I hear it. Anyone have such a thing?
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John
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 16:12:19
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In the most obvious version is when you have speakers that are 180 degrees out of phase by mismatching the ground on one. The sound is not clear and the direction of it is vague plus some frequencies disappear. In a DAW it it can make the entire sound disappear due to cancellation. What often happens is poor stereo imaging. Phase as such has no sound like IM distortion or harmonic distortion. But it is a distortion.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 16:25:30
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Thanks. I feel I have a good grasp of the theory. I just don't have any examples? IOW Theory vs experience
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AT
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 16:53:48
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https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by Caa2 - 2017/05/01 20:37:06
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guitarmikeh
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 17:28:11
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do as mike says and then move one clip a few samples in either direction and then listen to the diferance
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Bub
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 18:44:14
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Sometimes it's not always obvious you have a phase problem. It used to be easy to check for suspected phase problems when the phase button was on the track. It's hidden in the inspector now since X1.
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tunekicker
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 20:40:51
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There are a few things that can be confusing. Sometimes you really do have a phase problems. Other times it's actually more of an issue with polarity (which is usually accompanied by minor phasing too.) Examples of phase vs. polarity: 1. A snare drum that is miced top and bottom will almost always have a polarity issue if you don't flip polarity on the bottom mic. 2. When micing a guitar amp with a close mic and a distance mic you're creating a time difference between the two mics, and physical distance creates differences in timing- i.e. phase. For phase issues it is best to visibly align timing or use a delay like the one in Channel Tools to adjust. For polarity it is also best to visibly align timing or use a delay like the one in Channel Tools, as issues with polarity often imply small issues with phase, too. Of course, for this you will also need to flip polarity, so make sure to use that button in Sonar's mixer, then when aligning visually look for a mirror image (when one goes up the other should go down- that's what polarity means.) Phase and polarity will sound different depending on whether you're talking mono, stereo, etc. In mono it will have less bass frequencies and sound hollow. Phase issues in stereo can lead to the same hollow sound but aren't as obvious. Polarity issues with stereo (one channel has opposite polarity) will make things sound wide and doubled. Think about drum overheads. If you generally mic the drums so the snare is in the center that's where it should be. If one channel has reverse polarity the snare will sound off to one side. It's quite a party. :-) Peace, Tunes
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jm24
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/05 21:13:19
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The main problem is: "Out-of-phase" is an incorrect description of the issue. And has been for years. Some idiot (prolly an advertisement guy), many years ago, used the wrong word. The correct term is "reversed polarity." Phase is about the relationship of wavs. FYI: There is no such thing as a polarity shifter. references: http://www.emusician.com/techniques/0768/its-only-a-phase/143776 Phase vs. Polarity It might be useful at this point to quickly address a common misconception. Phase and polarity do not describe exactly the same thing. As we''ve looked at already, phase is specifically about timing. When you have a phase problem, you have a problem between the timing of two things, such as the distance between two mics or latency between two DAW tracks. The term out of polarity refers to two waves that may actually be in phase (i.e., they started at the same time), but whose energy is moving in opposite directions. Polarity does, indeed, relate to the shape of a wave and how it combines with others, but a problem with polarity is not related to a time offset between two similar waves the way phase is (see Figs. 4a and b). The effects of the two are often similar: When two sounds have opposite polarity, they look and behave like two sounds that are 180 degrees out of phase. But the solutions to the two problems are different, so it can be useful to differentiate them. ===================== http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--02/14/2002 First, we need to make sure we understand the distinction between polarity and phase of signals. Polarity speaks more to how the positive and negative wires are connected. Phase speaks more to a relative TIME differential between two signals. ==== http://totalproaudio.stevebunting.com/30/basics/phase-or-polarity/ The problem is that to invert the phase of an electrical signal simply does not make sense, and what is most commonly meant is actually a polarity inversion. =========== This is another example of why fundamental science education should be a top priorty. NOT math and science. SCIENCE does not require math. And Math should not be a prerequisite for science classes. Math is a tool, like pencil and paper, and crescent wrenches. Science is a way of observing the universe. A sister to Art.
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mleghorn
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Re:What does "out of phase" sound like?
2012/05/06 15:28:34
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The easiest way to hear it is to switch the positive / negative connection to your speakers on one of the channels (left or right), then play anything through your speakers.
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RozzERZz
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 14:20:09
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Was looking for ages to find some audio examples and came across this site:
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Cactus Music
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 14:34:02
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Thanks for the post JM I guess we are all guilty of using the term out of Phase when we should really be saying the polarity is reversed like in the example of speaker pairs. One example of phase ( timing ) is in live recordings where the drums leak into the vocal mikes or visa versa. The result is is you play both tracks they will be abnormally dead. You'll find flipping the polarity on one brings them back up in the mix.
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scook
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 14:36:00
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pls check the date before posting
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RozzERZz
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 14:37:42
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Yeah I did, but I figured no one else had replied with any audio examples and this thread was on the first page of google when I was looking for an answer, so thought it still might be helpful to some people!
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interpolated
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 16:21:44
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Remember the old Beatles recordings with instruments very hard panned. Imagine those sounds were supposed to sound stereo.
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liinnerd
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 16:40:07
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Use sonitus phase on a track in combination with a phase meter. Adjust the phase and listen to what it does while you see the correlation meter move toward the negative side.
post edited by liinnerd - 2017/05/01 18:23:10
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Kamikaze
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 17:04:50
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Out of phase is when your ex tells you that she works in the day and you work in the evening and you aren't contributing to each other
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tlw
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 17:39:25
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2017/05/01 17:40:17
There's no need to look for audio examples of phase problems, an example is really simple to create yourself. Load a full-kit stereo drum loop into an audio track. Drag it out a few times and loop it. Load Channel Tools into the fx bin. Then play around with the L and R phase-flipping switches in the top left box. And the Delay parameters, but only one side of the stereo image at a time. That should give you all plenty of out-of-phaseness to be going on with. You can also load any commercial or your own finished stereo audio into a Sonar track, put the Channel Tools on it and phase flip away.
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davec69
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 18:40:31
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thedukewestern
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/01 22:34:13
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quantumeffect
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Re: What does "out of phase" sound like?
2017/05/04 02:43:47
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Phase concerns show up in several different ways when mic’ing a drum set. A couple that I notice are (a) with 2 mic’s capturing the whole kit (cymbals in particular) and (b) 2 close mic’s on one drum. (a) 2 mic’s capturing the whole kit When I mic the whole kit I use an A-B spaced pair technique. That is, 2 overheard mics facing downward to capture the cymbals about 6 feet apart from each other … 1 on each side of the kit roughly equidistant from the snare. If you stand in a room and hit a good cymbal it will have an initial attack and then a smooth decay. My goal is to get the mic's set to minimize phase issues and get the recorded cymbals to have this beautiful decay: CRRrraaaassssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh If you don't get the mic's set up correctly you end up with audible phase issues that sound like a rising and falling wooshing sound in the decaying cymbal wash: CRRrraaaassssshhhhwwooosshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwwooosshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (b) 2 close mic’s on one drum Here the drum is close mic'ed from the top and bottom with the 2 mic's (at least to some degree) facing each other. Typically what you do when mixing the 2 tracks down to 1 ... is to listen to them with the polarity matched for the 2 tracks and then flipped for the 2 tracks. One combination will usually sound hollow and the other combination will sound fat.
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