Helpful ReplyWhat equipment do i need?

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musaed
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2017/10/18 16:28:17 (permalink)

What equipment do i need?

Hi there
I use sonar x2 and windows 7 64bit
What equipment do i need?
So what do I need if I want to record 3 track at the same time ?
And without latency
And with pre reverb and fx
 
1 for mic
2 for guitar
3 for keyboard
#1
AT
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 17:01:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/10/18 17:22:09
A 4-input audio interface (they only make them in mutiples of 2 or 4).
 
Such as 
 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US4X4
 
All interfaces have some latency - even if it is only the ADDA conversion (which is indistinguishable).  And my Tascam 20x20 latency through USB 3 is about 4 ms - the equivalent of playing guitar 4 ft. from the amp.  Even USB 2 runs about 6 ms on my Win 7 machine.  But most of us use the software mixer in the interface to get Zero Latency - the incoming signal is split into two and the one you listen to isn't shunted off to the computer but sent back out directly - mixed with your previously recorded tracks for you to play along.  The main problem is with amp models (which often have their own latency which adds to the delay), since you have to play through it for feel.  Reverb for vocals - many units (as the TASCAM) have a cheap fx unit built-in for such monitoring.
 
Good hunting 
 

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Sir Les
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 17:18:03 (permalink)
Well, as I am not the one who has all the answers....
 
First you need a good mind to trouble shoot, and read, and understand what you want out of your doings..,,,And then how to get or do is important , and reason for also to ponder why...if it comes to wanting it with sonar x2?...Hmmm...might be a issue to update eventually to...x3, and so on...until lifetime updates eventually are paid...for to get it doing for you...you need a pc...so they said, is all you need, no no no you need windows os?...well you might have to get a sound card with multiple inputs....Call her maiden marry if you wish?....And follow the instructions well.....And you will be in troubled waters asking ....WTF happened to my tracks???...when they vanish, or...the audio drops the driver for...Or, it just bugs out on you.., or the project gets corrupted by unknowns.....In this effort you seek to find answers for what equipment do you need?......The one given you is the mind and the body, and the life is in you...Not the machine....Is it a true answer you seek here?
 
Is all said here and there it will do for you..?...Consider using your head and body more so to make, or get to the founders of mayhem and RND is your baby to pick a choice or choose one of your liking...To prove it works or not is your choice to make...And less troubles will be with you......Surely?..or Sherly?...Ok, caller what you want to?....lol
 
I think a good audio mixer kind of setup , with onboard effects, or sends or inserts would do you wonders...usb or others are available with problems ...and hardware external effects tied to sends and returns and inserts, and back up machines of tape tied in, and other PC or computers working in unison to save save save the day...all working for you..might be a stretch in the wallet or your budget, if you have one for it, if you cannot figure out what you need.....
 
How are you going to figure out how to use it?...might be a already telling tale...most have here and there with it....So why bother?....adventure?....Just had to ask...before sending you hunting for...the buy buy buy listed ...Motu, and others are now making...Allen & health...and others no doubt .M audio, to the extreme best of the best..all say do some of making a good audio mixer/audio interfaces with PC connect for multiple in and outs...small or large is up to you....Is likely your best move to consider.
 
Why?...external effects tied to inputs, sends or inserts, reduce cpu load...internal built in the mixer is like also...so you monitor the mixing desk or board, and PC outs...and most is not all is outsourced to external gear...although some do use plug ins...and now you have the best of all of the sort...to sort out.
 
And routing...and so on...and power to run it..and payment for it...is your baby .....So, lots to say, lots to consider...cost seems to be the deciding factor in most of this....Or you win it doing remix contests?....
 
So they say many are on this wide path now...Look into the problems with it....And think hard about it...It can be rewarding to solve for, or make it be as it is...Or just learn how to make music first...with a instrument of your liking....And play....It sure cuts out all the other stuff...when you get to making it be...less of a cost, you reward yourself with the Truth...it is less trouble!
 
 
Just keeping it real for you before hand, and I am sure most will say...yeah!.
 
Cheers!

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#3
musaed
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 17:33:06 (permalink)
Thanks guys no i konw how! But if i want to sing and hear reverb in real time ? is there equipment for that also ?
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musaed
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 17:45:34 (permalink)
AT
A 4-input audio interface (they only make them in mutiples of 2 or 4).
 
Such as 
 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US4X4
 
All interfaces have some latency - even if it is only the ADDA conversion (which is indistinguishable).  And my Tascam 20x20 latency through USB 3 is about 4 ms - the equivalent of playing guitar 4 ft. from the amp.  Even USB 2 runs about 6 ms on my Win 7 machine.  But most of us use the software mixer in the interface to get Zero Latency - the incoming signal is split into two and the one you listen to isn't shunted off to the computer but sent back out directly - mixed with your previously recorded tracks for you to play along.  The main problem is with amp models (which often have their own latency which adds to the delay), since you have to play through it for feel.  Reverb for vocals - many units (as the TASCAM) have a cheap fx unit built-in for such monitoring.
 
Good hunting 
 


How can I use line in stereo with that US-4x4 USB O,o


#5
Sir Les
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 17:52:23 (permalink)
Some PA's have spring or digital reverb...some amps also, some external reverb units also, small one by Alesis...and so on...as internal hardware most mixing boards that have onboard effects have also a reverb you can send input to...And, x2 is buggy...so...you might want to upgrade...but, it might work for you..?..and the audio interfaces with UAD could be a solution..real time is being sought to have with some audio interfaces now being tooted...So, lots to research....Which is the best way?...its the one that offers most routing and possible sure bet results, to sure gear, and test works well enough...is a mixing board with lots of sends and inserts....You put the gear in to that, and unfortunately ...PC with windows oS is locked in by Cakewalk...x2 is just my experience being way to buggy to be trusted to handle.
 
So again, it is about putting into a small yet robust package...And not putting it into only Windows might help more so be something to think out first.
 
As a mixing board or good audio interface, with some multi effects units tied to the mixer...will sing on any platform when setup...with the Proper Daw behind it.
 
And all the Daws have issues in sort differing regards...So learning is a must...how to use, and a Multitracker mixing board/recorder with all the bells and whistles inside..??..cuts out the OS of mayhem....So, it is up to you to find the best of....all I can say...most if not all will need power conditioning units to reduce power spikes, on the dirty electrical....That is a for sure!
 
The rest is on the world wide wed...And some youtube open box kind of showing, or NAM shows, and the use of or setup trying to...and then ...You come saying...what caused this or that....Is next!
 
Cheers!

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#6
Sir Les
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 18:08:28 (permalink)
Just think outside of the PC windows OS..:  something that ties to any Computer, or needs none, but can do all...and has effects built into, and has sends and inserts also..with Phantom power on some or all tracks...good to very good AD/DA, and Hard drive recording or Mirco cards to record onto..good pre amps....Usually work very well, and you can track with a computer also...thus you get a back up, and a solution for all if not most...here: https://www.sweetwater.com/c1008--Digital_Multitrack_Recorders
 
Thinking beyond Cake and coffee!
 
Cheers, and good luck.
 

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AT
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 18:10:13 (permalink)
The front inputs should be combo ins, suitable for XLR (mic) lines or 1/4 inch (line ins).  Just plug the left output into input 3, and the right output into 4, and route each input to the appropriate track in SONAR.

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there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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musaed
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 18:24:06 (permalink)

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bitflipper
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 18:30:24 (permalink)
You won't be able to do that without a hardware investment: a new interface with integrated fx, a mixer or an outboard reverb unit. Computers just aren't fast enough to use software reverbs in real time.
 
If you're not interested in upgrading your interface to one that features built-in reverb or an effects loop for inserting an outboard reverb, you'll need to process your channels before they go into the interface. The simplest and probably least-expensive way to manage that would be with a mixer that has built-in effects and at least 3 outputs. Something like this will do ($200), you'll just have to utilize one of the "monitor" outputs as your third channel.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#10
Sir Les
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/18 18:33:16 (permalink)
I believe he needs a four input device or more, as you said AT...best cost to price and function ratio...Be to ponder out what is available in doing it all?...without too much bugginess, and troubles beyond the said wanting to do with....Was my point being put right?
 
 
...Reasons below, in my details might be averted...and by experience be converted?...lol
 
Cheers,,,Oh I tried the latest Platinum version....WTF.....be mindful...it could take the rest of my life waiting!

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2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
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57Gregy
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/19 20:00:29 (permalink)
I use a Yamaha MG 8/2FX mixer.
I plug all of my mikes and instruments into my audio interface, the Focusrite Saffire.
The audio output of the Saffire goes to my mixer, which has reverb, so everything I hear has reverb, while recording or playing back.
You also have a Yamaha mixer and an audio interface. 

Greg 
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#12
Cactus Music
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/19 22:24:23 (permalink)
So your listening to Bass with Reverb on it ??

Johnny V  
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#13
musaed
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/19 23:21:42 (permalink)
57Gregy
I use a Yamaha MG 8/2FX mixer.
I plug all of my mikes and instruments into my audio interface, the Focusrite Saffire.
The audio output of the Saffire goes to my mixer, which has reverb, so everything I hear has reverb, while recording or playing back.
You also have a Yamaha mixer and an audio interface. 


Great and simple answer thanks man
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bitman
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 01:18:37 (permalink)
If you can stand to run your mics and instruments through a mixer before they hit the daw. then a mixer with direct outs on some or all the channels so you can use those outs to drive the daw, run the daw at any convenient latency and monitor the mics and instruments via the headphone jack on the mixer in analog real time.
 
This is how I do it. I monitor the sources directly, adding any effects using hardware reverbs in the mixers aux sends and returns or onboard if available. I don't "print" the effects just monitor the sources with them.
 
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57Gregy
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 04:24:55 (permalink)
Cactus Music
So your listening to Bass with Reverb on it ??




Sure. Why not? This is just when tracking and it's after the DAW, so it's not in the track.
Frankly, with my hearing loss, I can hardly hear the reverb anyway, unless I solo a track or really crank the 'verb up.

Greg 
I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
Everything is better with pie. 

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#16
tlw
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 15:03:50 (permalink)
bitflipper
You won't be able to do that without a hardware investment: a new interface with integrated fx, a mixer or an outboard reverb unit. Computers just aren't fast enough to use software reverbs in real time.


Get round-trip latency to under 10ms, or for most people under 15ms, and it’s perfectly possible. And modern computers should be able to handle that, given a good interface with good drivers. Making sure the reverb used doesn’t add latency is important as well, of course.

There’s also the half and half way of doing things where the direct signal is monitored directly through interface or mixer and the DAW is used just to add the reverb. That way while you might get a tiny increase in delay time for the early reflections part of the reverb you bypass any excessive latency as far as the direct signal is concerned. At worst it just pushes back the perceived “walls” of the reverb’s virtual room a few feet.

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Audioicon
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 15:22:07 (permalink)
Cactus Music
So your listening to Bass with Reverb on it ??


Nice!
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Cactus Music
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 17:56:04 (permalink)
Hey Greg,  I guess if you're used to it and you keep it at a low wet mix you might not even notice.  I need the bass real tight to keep my timing on, reverb makes stuff sound sloppy and to me it is distracting. Each there own for sure. I don't track vocals with Reverb myself as I need to hear my errors and reverb masks the details. But I've had clients who seem to perform better when they have that wall of sound in the phones. 
Since I stopped taking on clients I removed my Lexicon MX 200  from my studio rack and it now lives in my live performance rack. 

Johnny V  
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#19
57Gregy
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Re: What equipment do i need? 2017/10/20 19:18:24 (permalink)
Timing? What's that? 
You have a point, and I do have the reverb set low.
I simplified my set up a little in my suggestion to musaed; I really have the audio outputs of my MIDI keyboard plugged into the mixer and the audio outs of the interface, too. I use all MIDI from the keyboard until I'm done (?) and then select soft synths if I think I can find a better sound. I have a pretty old, underpowered DAW computer and don't want to stress it too much when recording.
So, I can turn off the reverb on the MIDI channel of the mixer. I'll try that and see if I notice any 'tightening' of the bass.
Thanks!

Greg 
I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
Everything is better with pie. 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
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