jamesg1213
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 08:17:00
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Wave
Why do the big top 40 acts have to have a bunch of dancers; its became the band no longer exists. Sure they have a few people standing there but are they even playing and does anybody know who they are.
Why pay all these people to play in a band when you can have a DAW make the music for you. Early rappers could just grab the mike and start rapping didn't cost much at all.
Its all loops and samples and a Laptop now baby!
Is it all that bad? Not for me, I'm in love with my DAW?
It's really not that different to the late '60's/early '70's, when labels were churning out the hits using session players under a variety of 'band' names. At one point around 6 or 7 of the songs in the UK top 10 had the same singer under different aliases.
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spacey
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 09:07:39
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Wave
Jonbouy
Let me guess Mr Wave.
You are somwhere between late 40's and late 50's in age?
The kids today don't know what they are missing?
This 'Golden Age' of music mysteriously happened around the time of your late teens?
There's been nothing to touch it since?
Join the club mate you've just turned into what made your parents 'square' when they were the same age you are now...
Fuddy duddy is the new Rock and Roll get with the program down a bottle of tonic wine and enjoy. It's really not that bad. I just recently had my first kiss..................wearing my new full dentures. There are plenty of new firsts to be had every day...
Do you not realise you are just repeating what your parents were saying about the likes of Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye and Pat Boone or whatever when they were still calling the 'Top 40' the Hit Parade?
Point taken
I just think that the cheap sound is just that cheap.
Maybe the sound we are hearing is due to the $ drying up. Could anybody afford to have a big band behind them like Frank Sinatra did. I don't think so. When was the last time you went to a dinner dance like the "Club Babaloo" to see Ricky Ricardo and his Orchestra play.
Why do the big top 40 acts have to have a bunch of dancers; its became the band no longer exists. Sure they have a few people standing there but are they even playing and does anybody know who they are.
Why pay all these people to play in a band when you can have a DAW make the music for you. Early rappers could just grab the mike and start rapping didn't cost much at all.
Its all loops and samples and a Laptop now baby!
Is it all that bad? Not for me, I'm in love with my DAW?
I don't think your question was for research. I believe it was the lead-in to your statements or opinions about the condition of the music scene. Your last statements- "It's all loops and samples".... is a very narrow one that fits you in support of your "point" and only a segment of the industry. Should one choose not to limit their listening and learning pleasures to a marketing "top anything" list, as very many do, there is a fantastic choice available. When one considers the years of experience combined with the technological advances we have incredible choices to amaze ourselves with. One very fine example for your consideration- Pat Matheny "What's It All About". So I'll say; While you have your pleasure with loops and samples don't believe for one minute that there are not "real" musicians learning, performing and recording their music and supplying many listeners with some of the finest music ever written and recorded....well at the least that's how I see it. strange...when I go to edit for formatting correction the issues I see are not there...oh well. Probably doesn't matter anyway.
post edited by spacey - 2012/05/09 09:21:28
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RabbitSeason
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 10:13:51
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I have to agree with a number of statements:
1. Yes, it is all loops and samples. My kids (two boys under 10) like the current crop of pop/dance music. Artists like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Taio Cruz, Bruno Mars. It's not my favorite stuff, but I like to stay informed on the kids' interests.
So this means I listen to a lot of Top 40 radio. In Boston, this means the radio station Kiss 108. I love dissecting the songs, listening for the loops, counting the number of verses, lamenting the loss of a good "bridge" in any of these songs. Not every song falls into that trap, but too many songs appear to be a drum loop, a keyboard line, effects, and the singer who sang all of 3 lines which were then sampled/chopped/looped.
The songwriting itself can be too predictable. Even a good song like "We Are Young" by Fun! has the same (I think) I-vi-IV-V progression as the Penguins' "Earth Angel" from 1954. As does "Baby" from Justin Beiber.
My wife is always amazed how I can hear a song once, and then start to pound it out on the piano. I explain the re-use of common patterns, the idea of the 12-bar blues, but she still sees this as a "talent".
I try to expose my kids to all kinds of music, just to show them what's out there. I am making some headway, as my 9-year-old told me his current fave song is the Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots Pt. 1".
2. Songs like "Someone That I Used to Know" and "Pumped Up Kicks" are fantastic. Unfortuantely, I don't think they represent the salvation of current music. When I first heard "The Way" by Fastball, I thought salvation was at hand! Too bad, they were just another flash in the pan. In the meantime, I will continue buying every album by Fountains of Wayne.
3. The teeny bopper phenomenom is repeated every 2-3 years. It's success depends on (or comes from) that new crop of 8-12 year old girls. I saw an online article about Justin Beiber recently, and I was struck by how much he looks like a young Donny Osmond. Same healthy hair and teeth.
4. Elvis and the Beatles were great, but that didn't mean the acts that followed were going to be as good. I am constantly amazed at how great Bob Marley's music was, and how ho-hum every reggae act has been since.
Okay, that's all I got. Hopefully this made some sense, but I am also in the middle of a "last of the Easter candy chocolate high".
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Moshkiae
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 10:37:08
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Hi,
Yes, there are a lot of nice things in the Top 40, or Top 10, or Top 1000!
So what?
You're going to let that run your tastes, mind and choices?
Oh well, 1984 ... more, is all we're here for ... (Roy Harper!) ..
And then we have the balls to complaint that we can't "make it" and do better with our own music?
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Moshkiae
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 10:53:17
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DuckSeasonMy wife is always amazed how I can hear a song once, and then start to pound it out on the piano. I explain the re-use of common patterns, the idea of the 12-bar blues, but she still sees this as a "talent". It is a gift. As much as I love music, I am probably tone deaf ... but I can fly and live and die with the notes, chords and such ... because they take me away faster than anything else. For folks like me, it isn't the notes, because when you fly, and make love, you don't see the notes ... you see the experience and work for more and to see it better and sometimes more exciting and what not. I'm actually rather mathematical and can be methodical, at least in interpreting what I see and describing it --visually -- but if you ask me the note I played? I can't tell you, and I have tried to learn it a thousand times ... it won't stick! I can (likely) tell you where my hand was ... again ... visual ... and be close enough to it ... but it might not sound the same, although at that point I should be able to find it, logic would suggest. But for me, music is not mechanical ... because it is 100% visual! Now you know why a lot of popular music and top ten is not that great for me ... you are supposed to believe something just because someone told you and the music supposedly illustrates that feeling? ... you're kidding me, right? That is so naive, it's not funny!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Jonbouy
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 11:11:22
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But for me, music is not mechanical ... because it is 100% visual! Thank goodness for LED lighting in studios these days.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 11:20:43
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Jonbouy
But for me, music is not mechanical ... because it is 100% visual!
Thank goodness for LED lighting in studios these days.
Especially since they are standardized?
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57Gregy
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 11:27:53
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Now you know why a lot of popular music and top ten is not that great for me ... you are supposed to believe something just because someone told you and the music supposedly illustrates that feeling? I think popular music is popular because people like it, not because someone told them to like it. I think perhaps you don't like popular music because someone told you you shouldn't like it.
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bapu
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 11:29:25
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57Gregy
Now you know why a lot of popular music and top ten is not that great for me ... you are supposed to believe something just because someone told you and the music supposedly illustrates that feeling?
I think popular music is popular because people like it, not because someone told them to like it.
I think perhaps you don't like popular music because someone told you you shouldn't like it.
Circular arguments will get you nowhere.
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jamesg1213
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 12:41:49
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Moshkiae
For folks like me, it isn't the notes, because when you fly, and make love, you don't see the notes ... you see the experience and work for more and to see it better and sometimes more exciting and what not.
I'm actually rather mathematical and can be methodical, at least in interpreting what I see and describing it --visually -- but if you ask me the note I played? I can't tell you, and I have tried to learn it a thousand times ... it won't stick! I can (likely) tell you where my hand was ... again ... visual ... and be close enough to it ... but it might not sound the same, although at that point I should be able to find it, logic would suggest.
Learn the notes Pedro, seriously. You'll never get anywhere with it otherwise. Learn the notes, learn the scales, learn about harmony, and pretty soon you'll able to play along with all those guys 'flying'..they've all learned the notes, and they know them inside out and backwards, that's why they can 'fly'.
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Wave
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 13:14:14
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57Gregy
Now you know why a lot of popular music and top ten is not that great for me ... you are supposed to believe something just because someone told you and the music supposedly illustrates that feeling?
I think popular music is popular because people like it, not because someone told them to like it.
I think perhaps you don't like popular music because someone told you you shouldn't like it.
I've have read that you can be programmed to like a certain music by repeated playing of that style. For example: Your parents may not like your music because they were not exposed to it the way you were. Big Radio when it keeps playing the same style of music over and over the young listeners will except it as the norm and like it. Example of how things can be changed: Metal was killed by rock ballads; Motley Crue's hit single "Home Sweet Home" in 1985. I believe it stayed on MTV #1 for like six months and was the longest MTV #1 video. Big money wanted a piece of that action. Metal groups had to put out rock ballads and go unplugged etc..... this let the fan base down and slowly destroyed that music scene (not by choice just happened that way). I'm just going by what the artists of that time period have stated (they should know). Many Top 40 radio stations are owned by the same companies and I believe they can and do change the course of music by what they decide to play. This is a double edge sward for the radio stations. If they've got the people liking the style they are broadcasting (even though it's garbage). If they try to change over the sound to something; say better - they will loose listeners to there competitors. So it takes a real shocker of a #1 hit to change the course of music (as I have stated in my 1st post). No shocker has come along since Rap because nobody can come up with a new sound that has not already been done. We've had Death Metal, Gangsters, Druggies, Hound Dogs, Big Bands, Country, and the list goes on and on but nothing new since the mid 1980's. Who is going to be the next big thing? Have we finally run out of Ideas? Are we going to be stuck with the same old sound forever?  Thats what I'm talking about.
Cheers, Wave
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spacey
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 13:26:46
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Wave
but nothing new since the mid 1980's. I wonder how Generation X feels about that? So their flagship band in 1991 with Kurt Cobain was just old hat?
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foxwolfen
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 13:53:38
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Gahhhh, I hate when I come to a thread late. All the good answers are already taken. I agree with JamesYoyo, Jules, and James1213. I think its just as strong and schlock ridden as it has always been. The top 40 is and will always be "lite". "My Sherona", while a huge hit, is not any better than "bad romance" by Lady Gaga. If you think however that it is not changing, or evolving, then you should listen to Skrillex. This band is huge here, they are doing colabs with all the greats... and the music (called dubstep) would have been shot down here as "noise". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AyJyoiH5-k (Skrillex comes in at about 120)
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Jonbouy
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:15:46
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and the music (called dubstep) would have been shot down here as "noise". LOL Both Dubstep (directly) and Rap (The idea of using MC's) of course being evolved from Jamaican Roots music of the 60's... More tonic wine Shad? Just pull up a rocking chair and join in old pal... Trying to be hip just makes the kids laugh even more, we have to go with the flow. Acceptance is the key.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/05/09 14:17:32
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Mooch4056
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:17:30
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Lady gaga makes me want to laugh, cry, throw up, cheer, curse, snap my fingers, be angry, confused, and smile all at the same time.
Kinda the same way bapu makes me feel I suppose
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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jamesg1213
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:26:20
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Mooch4056
Lady Gaga
Funny how she always comes up in these conversations, when the oldies are grasping around for something 'modern'...she writes a mean pop song, and sounds great live. All the other 'stuff' is just showbiz, it gets her noticed and is no worse than Elton John's excesses.
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Jonbouy
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:30:28
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Music has always moved out of a development of what has gone before alongside current localised cultural influences. That progression hasn't changed since the piano was invented music is still as artful as it has ever been even if the means of production is rapidly changing. The Sex Pistols for example occured out of the same principle of traditions of any old English folk music. By that same token you could blame Henry VIII for pioneering punk.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/05/09 14:35:24
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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julibee
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:42:13
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spacey
Wave
but nothing new since the mid 1980's.
I wonder how Generation X feels about that? So their flagship band in 1991 with Kurt Cobain
was just old hat?
Gen X'r here, stifles a sarcastic *yawn*. Sooooooo boooooring, that Grunge stuff when it first came out my Senior Year in High School. I mean, we'd heard it all before. Can't figure out why it changed EVERYTHING..... *end sarcasm*
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julibee
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:43:23
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And NIN. That was pretty f'ing new.
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Jonbouy
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:57:04
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Strange but true. I'm getting featured on certain playlists in London and the South East with a style cross-between Seasick Steve and Deep Electro after cooking up a track based on the random concept that McQ introduced of 'Corn Syrup' that I put up here as a joke a few months back. One of my kids liked it and it went kind of tiny viral after her Facebook crew got wind of it I followed it up with three more similar tracks and they've been sort making their way round several clubs as sort of a comedy cult feature. Sure it's no big deal but if it carries on much more it's getting to a point where I'm gonna need to sign up to a small label to get some representation...lol. I kind of hoping it'll just fade away though. Thing is if I did a PA at one of those places I'd likely get arrested for 'grooming'... All of us are product of our own time and experience you can't get away from it you just have to go with yer own flow rather than worrying about the current state of the 'industry'.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/05/09 15:03:14
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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spacey
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 14:57:05
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julibee
spacey
Wave
but nothing new since the mid 1980's.
I wonder how Generation X feels about that? So their flagship band in 1991 with Kurt Cobain
was just old hat?
Gen X'r here, stifles a sarcastic *yawn*.
Sooooooo boooooring, that Grunge stuff when it first came out my Senior Year in High School. I mean, we'd heard it all before. Can't figure out why it changed EVERYTHING.....
*end sarcasm*
It must have been Kurts use of loops and samples that sailed them to the top. In truth...none of it means a thing to me. Before, during or after. Never could figure out the marketing or the whys or why nots when I was into "it". I just took the money and ran.....let the wizards figure it out while I counted my stash.....all memories now and that's a good place for them and me. :)
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foxwolfen
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 15:36:20
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A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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trimph1
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 15:39:44
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@Fox...oooohhh...ooooohhh!! Like me then....a curmudgeonly soul!!
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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foxwolfen
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 15:39:59
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julibee
And NIN. That was pretty f'ing new.
Nah... NIN rode the coat tails of bands like KMFDM, Bauhaus and Ministry. I never had much respect for them... they were industrial/goth "lite".
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Wave
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 15:48:13
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spacey
Wave
but nothing new since the mid 1980's.
I wonder how Generation X feels about that? So their flagship band in 1991 with Kurt Cobain
was just old hat?
That sound died with him. That is the biggest complement I can give the man. It was in his head; special to just him. Others could only try to copy. It was his gift - R.I.P. Kurt Cobain
Cheers, Wave
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daryl1968
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 15:58:39
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Wave
spacey
Wave
but nothing new since the mid 1980's.
I wonder how Generation X feels about that? So their flagship band in 1991 with Kurt Cobain
was just old hat?
That sound died with him. That is the biggest complement I can give the man. It was in his head; special to just him. Others could only try to copy.
It was his gift - R.I.P. Kurt Cobain
All due respect to you and Kurt Cobain but to say that he invented a Genre and it died with him is just wrong. All musical styles are just a development of another. You can trace what Nirvana did right back to bands like The Doors, The Animals, even some of the darker Beatles stuff. Draw a line from Nirvana and you get to bands like the Stone Temple Pilots, Blur, Jane's Adiction
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craigb
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 17:49:01
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Jonbouy
Strange but true.
I'm getting featured on certain playlists in London and the South East with a style cross-between Seasick Steve and Deep Electro after cooking up a track based on the random concept that McQ introduced of 'Corn Syrup' that I put up here as a joke a few months back.
One of my kids liked it and it went kind of tiny viral after her Facebook crew got wind of it I followed it up with three more similar tracks and they've been sort making their way round several clubs as sort of a comedy cult feature.
Sure it's no big deal but if it carries on much more it's getting to a point where I'm gonna need to sign up to a small label to get some representation...lol. I kind of hoping it'll just fade away though.
Thing is if I did a PA at one of those places I'd likely get arrested for 'grooming'...
All of us are product of our own time and experience you can't get away from it you just have to go with yer own flow rather than worrying about the current state of the 'industry'.
Ya! Bouy MC! Yu gotz beatz! (Heck, if Rebecca Black can make a million with that auto-tuned turd Friday, then I say go fleece 'em Jon!)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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julibee
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 18:50:56
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foxwolfen
julibee
And NIN. That was pretty f'ing new.
Nah... NIN rode the coat tails of bands like KMFDM, Bauhaus and Ministry. I never had much respect for them... they were industrial/goth "lite".
It's true... Except that I had never heard of Ministry or Bauhaus or KMFDM or Skinny Puppy or Nitzer Ebb... Until after I first heard NIN on the radio, and went searching. In reference to the OP, I think NIN may have been the only one of those mentioned to hit the top 40. I heard Ministry on Sirius the other day, and my initial reaction was to laugh... I thought "THAT was 'hard'?"! I remade an old industrial mix tape that I had in the 90s the other day on Spotify... It's no where near as dangerous as it used to sound. NIN still sounds pretty hard core to me. You're just bein' crotchety again. :D (edit for typos)
post edited by julibee - 2012/05/09 18:57:26
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julibee
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 18:56:01
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I would certainly agree that All these bands can trace back to another, earlier sound. Its about evolution, not the big bang.
Wonder if the key to top 40, then, is to take an old idea and make it new again for those who haven't had the pleasure?
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Wave
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Re:What happend to Top 40?
2012/05/09 19:54:57
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julibee
I would certainly agree that All these bands can trace back to another, earlier sound. Its about evolution, not the big bang.
Wonder if the key to top 40, then, is to take an old idea and make it new again for those who haven't had the pleasure?
You've got a great point. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix, Deep Purple and such were all cult groups for the most part before classic rock stations. I found out about them from word of mouth. "Hard rock" hit big in the 80s. But the Radio Top 40 did not play the hard rock they were playing Madonna and a guy with a monkey named Bubbles; both whom little kids adored. You could here the metal groups on MTV headbangers ball. The reason MTV played them was because they were video ready with the long hair, drums, whaling guitars (they could put on a show that the others could not so easily do). MTV was a big help bringing back hard rock in the 80s. A genre from the late 60s and 70s.
Cheers, Wave
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