What is some good reference cds for mixing rhythm/lead acoustic guitar in the same song?

^topic. Since I often use the same guitar for both, I often end up lots of clashes. I usually resolve by panning, or somethings I can eq-out of the difference... but other times, it's difficult.

I figure if I went out and got some reference cds, I could at least compare my stuff to them to see how I'm doing.

I think my biggest problem is playing lower notes in my leads. If that note is played at the same time as a chord, it clashes. I could play higher notes, but sometimes you really do want that lower note ;)

just download some of my music and you'll be golden.

Well, here is what I got:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/acoustic_eq.mp3

Some of the guitar parts are a little tinny to avoid clashes. I could get a much naturally deeper sound, as this is mini jumbo.

Basically my strategy was to pan the lead to one side, because centering it caused a lot of problems. I also used stereo imagining to further push the small section of frequency range that was causing problems to the sides of the stereo image while keeping the rest of the frequencies panned normally.

I really don't know if that is the answer. One side sounds unbalanced, like it's missing lower frequencies as a result of this correction.

I'll have to wait a bit to check out your song. I tried, but it says that there is an error. I think soundclick is having problems ;)

I'm listening on computer speakers that are 12 inches apart so I didn't hear the panning.

Always avoid drastic panning. Stay at 10 to 20% or so at most when there are only 2 guitars.

I think the song I referenced ... both are straight up the center.  Also I try to avoid the stereo imaging if the track is mono and only has 2 things in it.

People starting out often try to cover their lack of skill with FX, and really, that is the wrong way to go. I see it a lot with singers, but it applies to anything. FX are like spice, a little, used properly, goes a long way. Try to get the mix sounding good before you add anything to it in the form of FX.

For guitars, a bit of reverb and proper EQ to separate the instruments sonically from each other is really all you need on a basic guitar tune.

Zuma


Then it sounds like you panned too hard and I would also lay off the stereo imaging... why do you want to push everything to the side? You have to take a careful look/listen at competing frequencies and gently EQ and even adjust volume levels to get them to sit properly. Panning hard left and hard right is not the answer. Try panning the lead L or R about 30-35% and make sure the lead and rhythm guits are not competting at the same frequencies and/or volume level.

It's the rest of the stereo imaging mostly. The rhythm and lead are 25% L/R. I think I did a .4 or .6 boost to the 180-250hz range in the stereo imager.

Yep, I probably did overdo the stereo-imaging. I didn't widen the whole frequency range though, just the bass region.

Here's the link

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/acoustic_eq.mp3

Ok. I'll listen when I get home. Sage advice too form Guitarhacker about pulling back on FX. Too much reverb will obscure everything and make separation, especially with guitars, all but impossible.

A technique I've used when mixing acoustic lead over acoustic rhythm or finger picking, is to clone the lead part, compress the heck out of the clone, then bring that up just under the original. Seems to give it a little more 'punch' and clarity without going overboard on the volume.

James

Okay, I raised the volume of the leads a bit. I think it sounds worse personally, especially in some areas. It drowns the rest of what's going on, but maybe that's what everyone wants.

I also fixed some volume problems in the bridge -> last chorus. It's a little hazzy in this area. I'll have to work on it a bit more later.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/acoustic_eq.mp3

I don't really plan on adding any vox or anything. The song is pretty much as is. I don't sing, and the leads are meant to be the vox.

Listening on cans now.... it sounds good. The lead is slighty to the R. and the level is good to my ears.  I would actually raise it a db or two...in my opinion, the lead could stand a bit higher in the mix.  but... that's your call.... did you also thin out the rhythm guitar a bit?.... maybe it's the cans bit is sounds a bit "lighter"... to me.  and I can clearly hear both guitars and they sound good.

YOU have to figure out what you want it to sound like... you asked for advice.... I offered from MY point of view.... how I would mix it....if it was on my DAW

Is there supposed to be a "rain" sound in the beginning....? 

 I would consider putting in a bass... maybe even an old upright bass "fiddle" like in bluegrass....

The lead is to one side because if I don't do that, the mix will not be spacially balanced. I can't have the rhythm on on side and the lead in the center, because the other side will be empty (nothing to really fill in the space... at least at the beginning of the song anyway).

Another reason I don't want to jack up the lead volume is because it's going to bring in the big 180-250hz frequencies... and then I'm going to have to chop more out of the rhythm, or make the lead sound more tinny. I've tried it, but I don't like the sound of either.

I would ordinarily increase the lead volume, especially vocals, but in this case, I used the same guitar for both parts.

I think a bass could be interesting, but I don't have a bass guitar, nor am I really that good at writing bass lines.

Well, I raised the volume a bit in a few of the sections. I was definitely loud enough already in the bridge and in the last chorus section.

And yeah, that's supposed to be rain. It actually is, from outside. In the last versions, I did nothing to it. This time, I trimmed out a lot of the bad mud.

I still think there's a few spots where the boom of the lead conflicts. It's noticeable if you crank it. I don't know Sonar won't let automate the waves ssl eq. I won't let me automate any of my plugins at all.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/acoustic_eq.mp3

acoustigod

Scottytunes


My best stereo imaging happens when I use stereo mics on the acoustic. They get panned left and right equally (8:00 and 4:00) and the lead guitar goes straight down the middle.

I agree. That's what I did for this tune:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/another_acoustic_tune.mp3

But with tune that we are talking about in this thread, I wanted a more intimate feel, and a lot of guitars at the beginning just didn't seem right :/

Agreed. That other tune sounds great. Sounds like you have 3 guitar parts in there.

I'm using 8.5.3 I believe. I haven't got the new one yet.

Rounding off the top end on the rhythm guitar effectively making it darker was a good move. I would even round it some more and make it sit back in the mix slightly.

Other things to try

1. Opposite delay for both parts and pushing them both a little farther apart on the dry signal. The delays will create a nice spread.

2. Make a second copy of the rhythm and pan on L the other R now slip one or the other about 7ms. That pushes them way out and away from the center. Then drop the lead down the middle.