garygml
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What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
hi guys anyone have any idea what the standard noise level of a song is
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gswitz
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 06:58:32
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Well, standardized where? The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) has created waves of measuring loudness so that an evenness can be implemented by radio stations without the most compressed track appearing the loudest. https://tech.ebu.ch/loudness A person named Bob Katz has suggested standardizing on -20 dB for movies and classical music, -14 for Jazz and Rock, and -12 for pop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-system He does take away the - sign when talking about these. I use -14 most of the time because it sounds good to me. When I watch netflix, I often monitor EBU and I can say that movies vary considerably in their volume. They are often louder than -20 measured using EBU 128, but the walking dead comes in considerably below (nearly -25). I think that helps get the surprisingly loud noises.
post edited by gswitz - 2015/03/07 09:31:19
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 08:34:24
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And when you're talking about the loudness level, it's RMS level. You'll get nowhere watching the peaks.
You can simply check the RMS and peak levels of any song you like yourself by importing them to SONAR or any audio editor.
You use the word "noise", but I assume you are not talking about the noise level/dynamic performance of the gear (/noise reduction), but the level of the actual signal.
The limiting level many use (for loud mixes) is around - 0.03 dB, and it shouldn't be louder than that, if you think about, say, converting it to an MP3. And as mentioned, peaks don't make a mix loud.
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garygml
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 08:50:17
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Sorry if I mislead anyone I'm mixing a song & I want to know what is the level it should be when converting to mp3
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Anderton
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 09:43:41
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It's not a good idea to normalize everything to 0 when converting to MP3. The encoding process can increase the level above 0 and cause distortion. The pricey-but-excellent Sonnox encoder compensates automatically, but otherwise you'll need to do trial-and-error. I'd recommend starting with peaks hitting no higher than -1.5 dB, converting, and seeing where the peaks end up.
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gswitz
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 11:23:43
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Anderton
It's not a good idea to normalize everything to 0 when converting to MP3. The encoding process can increase the level above 0 and cause distortion. The pricey-but-excellent Sonnox encoder compensates automatically, but otherwise you'll need to do trial-and-error. I'd recommend starting with peaks hitting no higher than -1.5 dB, converting, and seeing where the peaks end up.
Wow, Anderton! I was using -.3 or -.4 but never -1.5. That's a lot really! I've never noticed a problem with my mixes. I don't normally mix too hot anyway, so, it might be hard to catch an imperfection. That's a ton of headroom to leave though, imho.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Cactus Music
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 13:41:47
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And as gswitz and Kalle are saying, Average RMS level is what you need to look at, not peaks. A song could have the snare drum peaking at 0 and be only -22db Average RMS so will sound quiet.
This is why mastering is another level of expertise.
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Anderton
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 15:28:53
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gswitz
Anderton
It's not a good idea to normalize everything to 0 when converting to MP3. The encoding process can increase the level above 0 and cause distortion. The pricey-but-excellent Sonnox encoder compensates automatically, but otherwise you'll need to do trial-and-error. I'd recommend starting with peaks hitting no higher than -1.5 dB, converting, and seeing where the peaks end up.
Wow, Anderton! I was using -.3 or -.4 but never -1.5. That's a lot really! I've never noticed a problem with my mixes. I don't normally mix too hot anyway, so, it might be hard to catch an imperfection. That's a ton of headroom to leave though, imho.
The Sonnox plug indicates how much it had to reduce level to avoid clipping. I often see -1.2 dB. Bear in mind, though, that the MP3 still reaches 0 or very close to it. FYI the same thing can happen with Acidized loops. A loop that doesn't distort at one tempo may distort when stretched as the crossfading/mixing can create peaks not in the original.
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konradh
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/07 16:36:33
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Craig is an expert on this.
I mix with peaks between -5 and -3 if I am going to send the mix to a mastering engineer. I want him/her to have some headroom. The mastered product I get back is usually around -0.1.
What Katz says is great, but if you mix at -14, people will think something's wrong because your music is so quiet. A healthy debate about loudness is good, but if consumers have to get up and adjust the volume when your music comes on, they won't be happy.
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garygml
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/08 03:17:40
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Wow guys I feel a bit blown away... U guys are fantastic.... Might post a question about the universe ses what happens lol 😀😀
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Jeff Evans
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/08 03:36:58
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The real issue is there is actually NO standard for rms levels for finished masters. The good thing about the movie sound world is there is and it is -20 dB rms. But as far as CD's goes it is anyone's guess.
We are trying to educcate clients and hopefully things will move to a more reasonable standard level but konradh is very correct. I do a lot of mastering myself and if I created K-14 masters most of my clients would not be very happy at all.
-16 seems to be a level that iTunes will work nicely at (as long as 'Sound Check' is switched on though)
I have mastered up as high as -8 to -6 dB rms for the Hip Hop guys around here and they are happy. But it takes a serious limiter to do it though. (like PSP Xenon but at a price!)
I really like going for -10 dB rms though. It seems to combine loudness with punch and transients if done well. Depends on the music too.
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Anderton
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Re: What is the standard Db level for a mixed song
2015/03/08 11:35:56
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