What is this complex chord?

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mattplaysguitar
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2013/03/11 19:24:18 (permalink)

What is this complex chord?

I'm joining a Barbour Shop singing group and we are going to do a cover of Nearer My God To Thee which has some very nice, complex 9 part harmonies. But there are some chords in it that REALLY stand out to me. I want to know what they are and what they are made up of. Can any of you pro's help me out? You can hear the section here:

http://www.infinitelooper...rpHcA&p=n#/118;131

Thanks!
post edited by mattplaysguitar - 2013/03/11 20:07:36


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 19:47:32 (permalink)
    There is nothing dissonant about any of the music in that section. Funny how one hears it that way but to me it sounds very inside and rather sweet. You would have a real problem with some seriously dissonant Jazz chords. (Dominant b9 #5,#11, Minor Major 7 #11 etc..)


    Matt later when I get a chance I will transcribe the chords for you.

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 19:57:32 (permalink)
    I'd agree with Jeff there is nothing dissonant about that at all.  It's in D minor about the 3rd octave on the piano in terms of pitch, I think please correct me Jeff.  I'm still learning this stuff and it goes to F, then G.  There seems to be an octave up to D4 back to C then back to G and F 3rd octave on the piano.  But again please correct me Jeff.  Sorry Matt if you have no idea what I am talking about, I'm doing first year theory at uni, so I'm just playing along.  Looking forward to hearing if I came close.

    Peace Ben 
    post edited by BenMMusTech - 2013/03/11 19:59:13

    Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 20:20:28 (permalink)
    Title changed! Something in the lower notes sounded kind of dissonant to me, but I guess not!

    That would be great to see it transcribed, jeff. Thanks! Just the first chord is fine, I just want to know what all the notes are that make it up from a music theory perspective but I don't care about the actual notes as such. There are one or two notes in there that give it this kind of metallic feeling to me which I love.

    Ben, Dm sounds about right to me for the fundamental components, but what are the other ones in there!?!?!

    I know this piece uses up to 9 voices simultaneously. I don't know if all 9 are being used in this section though. I have a recording of a vocal performance of this song which is AMAZING but I don't think I can really put it up publicly as it's not mine. The notes that I really want are even more extreme in this vocal version I have. Maybe I can put up a snippet of if in a private link if you want to hear this section performed vocally.


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    BenMMusTech
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 20:51:58 (permalink)
    Hi Matt, its as I said we start in the third octave on D, unless I'm not watching the right bit and the high notes are as I reported G, a perfect 4th in a d minor scale, then F, a major 3rd on a d minor scale and I think there is a C note in that higher phrase as well.  I think that's it.  I'm not sure I know what you mean by chord because the cello doesn't play a chord.  Nor am I hearing the nine voices in that part but again I might be watching the wrong bit.  Please correct me if I am wrong Jeff.
     
    Peace Ben

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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 21:59:16 (permalink)
    Ah sorry, Ben. I miss-read your previous post. I thought you were referring to the notes that came after. My bad! I've played around with this and I think you might be right. D, G, F sound like the basis for it which would be a Dmbb5 I think? And then I think there is a C in there too which would make it a Dm7bb5, yes?

    The vocal performance one I am listening too sounds slightly different as I think it has an F for the root note too I think which would make it a F/Dm7bb5? I think it might be the double flat 5 and the slash chord combined which is giving the particular tension feel that I am looking for!

    I kind of just put it in the too hard basket and didn't try to work it out myself on a piano... Turns out it doesn't look too hard after all! Thanks!


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    BenMMusTech
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 22:44:48 (permalink)
    Hi Matt, yes def a c in there.  Wow your going past my theory level with those double flattend 5ths.  Yes I used my Ipad piano to work out the basic notes, so no not to hard.

    Peace Ben

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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 23:32:24 (permalink)
    Haha, I did research to learn that double flat 5th terminology ;) Simply a 5th, but flat, twice, which makes it a 4th, but with no 5th being played.

    So I actually just got sent the music score. Turns out we were both wrong. It is made up of 9 parts officially (at least in the vocal version, not this Cello version). We have:

    Solo:           F5
    Tenor:         F5
    Lead:          Eb5
                       Bb4

    Baritone:    Bb3
                       G3
    Bass:          Eb3
                       Bb2
    Bass Extra: Eb2

    This is of course for the vocal version. I think the PianoGuys version doesn't have those extra low bass notes in it though. Oh and the Solo is playing the same parts as the Tenor, though he is singing some different words and there are a few bits sung differently in the vocal version.

    Of course I am looking at a different score so it's entirely possible that these are not the notes used on that video! But I did play them on my iPhone piano thing and it did seem to fit.

    Just skimming through the sheet music and some of the bass notes go down to a C2!!! What insane Bass singer does that?!?!


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    The Band19
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 23:35:51 (permalink)
    Barbour shop takes a lot of discipline... And a lot of talent.

    Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/11 23:52:07 (permalink)
    The Band19


    Barbour shop takes a lot of discipline... And a lot of talent.

    This is them:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYR7SzVXd8


    I believe they won two golds which took them to America (from Australia) or won two golds in America or something recently. Definitely a lot of practice to get tight, but the coaches are great. There are a LOT of very knowledgeable people in the group with a big bunch who are pushing 70-80 years old so have a few years experience under the belt!


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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/12 00:10:52 (permalink)
    Ok so I found this vocal version I have been talking about.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9UsDl5gSuo


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    BenMMusTech
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/12 00:45:36 (permalink)

     

    Just skimming through the sheet music and some of the bass notes go down to a C2!!! What insane Bass singer does that?!?!

     
    I can get to B2 with some power and quite a lot of omph, if that is what you can call it!!  Ok not as nice as the vocalist in the link which I am listening to but I still can hit that not, I can also hit f5 as well!! Ha Lol, sorry I'm letting my ego out.
     
    The problem here matt, is this sounds totally different to the cello piece you linked.  By the looks of things the cello is peice is in a different key but again I might be wrong and I am looking forward to Jeffs opinion on this.
     
    Peace Ben

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    spacealf
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/12 02:55:35 (permalink)
    (notes) E, D, E, G (with some weird A note also in there predominant(loud)) chords that will fit when chords start: (Fmaj7+9), (G7, Am7), (Fmaj7+9), (G7 with a Dm7, E7 with odd notes added like D). Something like that but added 9ths, maybe 11ths, 13ths with transition notes in the chords. Not exactly though. (G7 with a Dm7 means notes in chord, G, B, D, F, A, C, E). Stuff like that.

     
     
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/12 05:14:05 (permalink)
    mattplaysguitar


    Haha, I did research to learn that double flat 5th terminology ;) Simply a 5th, but flat, twice, which makes it a 4th, but with no 5th being played.

    So I actually just got sent the music score. Turns out we were both wrong. It is made up of 9 parts officially (at least in the vocal version, not this Cello version). We have:

    Solo:           F5
    Tenor:         F5
    Lead:          Eb5
                       Bb4

    Baritone:    Bb3
                     G3
    Bass:          Eb3
                     Bb2
    Bass Extra: Eb2

    This is of course for the vocal version. I think the PianoGuys version doesn't have those extra low bass notes in it though. Oh and the Solo is playing the same parts as the Tenor, though he is singing some different words and there are a few bits sung differently in the vocal version.

    Of course I am looking at a different score so it's entirely possible that these are not the notes used on that video! But I did play them on my iPhone piano thing and it did seem to fit.

    Just skimming through the sheet music and some of the bass notes go down to a C2!!! What insane Bass singer does that?!?!


    So your chord is something like an Eb9 with no 7th

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    sharke
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/13 11:50:32 (permalink)
    Jealous! I was in a barber shop quartet about 12 years ago and still have fond memories. When everyone is singing perfect pitch and you hit those harmonies, it's almost a religious experience....the hardest part IMO wasn't the complexity of the chords, but the modulation, especially if you're singing the 7ths or the 9ths. I found some of them hard to wrap my head around. 

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    Beagle
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/13 14:53:27 (permalink)
    matt,
    I love this website:

    www.gootar.com

    click on the "perfect pitch" icon.  you get something like 30 seconds of free use, but you can always refresh the browser and get another 30.

    you can enter any notes you want and it will tell you what chords you have and any alternate names.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    jb101
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/13 16:35:57 (permalink)
    Not listened to it, but looking at the notes you listed, gives the chord E flat add 9.

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    sharke
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/14 02:27:46 (permalink)
    Beagle


    matt,
    I love this website:

    www.gootar.com

    click on the "perfect pitch" icon.  you get something like 30 seconds of free use, but you can always refresh the browser and get another 30.

    you can enter any notes you want and it will tell you what chords you have and any alternate names.

    Years ago I wrote a program for the Amiga computer called "Fretknot" which was a guitar fretboard chord/scale utility. You could select notes on the fretboard and it would tell you every possible chord that those notes matched perfectly, as well as all possible chords those notes were part of, and all possible chords which were part of those notes. Then it would tell you which scales were associated with those notes as well. It was great for chord substitution and modulation ideas, and would even give you hundreds of "next chord" suggestions if you gave it a chord you were stuck on while writing a song. It made the coverdisks of a couple of Amiga magazines at the time and I thought it was the bees knees, but of course then the PC explosion happened and there were a ton of similar programs out for Windows within no time. I think you can probably get a ton which run on your phone these days. 

    James
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    Philip
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/14 02:53:02 (permalink)
    That's pretty awesome Sharke!  Great thread Matt!

    (My knowing the ins and outs of chords + performing barbershop quartet harmonies is evolving more and more.  Hopefully my various choirs can increase such harmonies ... which for us is slow but promising)


    I have one know-it-all musician (my elder son) ... oft I sing a harmony ... he copies it or pitch bends his singing to his *inspired* rant.  And the blind leads the blind, etc.  


    But some of the 3/4 beat songs, like "Amazing Grace", are easier to do barbershop harmonies, IMHO, and sweet vocal stacks.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    sharke
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/14 17:18:51 (permalink)
    Our favorite was "Yes Sir, That's My Baby." Really catchy tune, easy to learn, lends well to barbershop harmonies and it has a killer modulation into the last verse. 

    James
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    spacealf
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    Re:What is this complex dissonant chord? 2013/03/17 15:48:37 (permalink)
    Transpose it a step down then, hearing seems to be off anymore since I am older and oder now. What a minute!

     
     
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