amiller
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 876
- Joined: 2006/01/28 19:54:49
- Status: offline
What, where to insert mastering plugin?
Do you guys insert a mastering plugin on the Master buss or do you bounce to a stereo pair and insert the master plugin there?
I'm getting some pops when I insert Izotope Ozone on the Master and select certain presets.
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
|
SuperG
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1371
- Joined: 2012/10/19 16:09:18
- Location: Edgewood, NM
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/15 13:31:55
(permalink)
amiller
Do you guys insert a mastering plugin on the Master buss or do you bounce to a stereo pair and insert the master plugin there?
I'm getting some pops when I insert Izotope Ozone on the Master and select certain presets.
If you're getting pops, you'd probably want to bounce it to a new track and mute everything else.
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/15 13:35:26
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Sijel 2016/03/18 09:51:01
Could mean your CPU is spiking. Ozone is pretty heavy as plugins go. You could do as you say and work with a simple stereo WAV, or increase latency/buffer size to see if easing up on your CPU helps.
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/15 13:41:32
(permalink)
Hi. When I put something on my Master Bus while tracking, I make sure it is not something cpu heavy. When mixing, I raise the AI buffer, to compensate for look forward plugins that is cpu heavy.
All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/15 14:02:24
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Sijel 2016/03/18 09:51:23
Ozone's a CPU guzzler. Bump up your buffers to their maximum and you should be OK.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
SuperG
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1371
- Joined: 2012/10/19 16:09:18
- Location: Edgewood, NM
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/15 23:43:00
(permalink)
bitflipper
Ozone's a CPU guzzler. Bump up your buffers to their maximum and you should be OK.
.....which is why I'm still blinking in disbelief at the performance meters in this new i7-6700 PC of mine. I use Ozone all the time. After 5 years, my old PC was getting a bit long in the tooth.
|
amiller
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 876
- Joined: 2006/01/28 19:54:49
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/17 16:53:27
(permalink)
bitflipper
Ozone's a CPU guzzler. Bump up your buffers to their maximum and you should be OK.
So, where do I do that? When I look at the asio driver settings in "Preferences" the buffer setting is greyed out.
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/17 16:55:11
(permalink)
ASIO buffers are set with software provided by the audio interface manufacturer.
|
KingsMix
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 498
- Joined: 2015/08/20 00:56:10
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 01:53:44
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Shambler 2016/03/18 07:54:02
Bounce to stereo wave file, open new project and import stereo track. Then do your mastering with Ozone inside this new project. Like many have said here, Ozone is a CPU guzzler. You can spend time trying to get it to work without glitches inside your current project, which is subjective depending on how many tracks , plugins etc. that you have in the project , which all affects how smooth Ozone is going to run, but the easiest thing to do is just mix down your wave, open a new project and master it in the new project.
post edited by KingsMix - 2016/03/18 02:16:15
|
Boydie
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 370
- Joined: 2010/02/28 14:55:04
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 03:49:57
(permalink)
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
PCs are so powerful nowadays I think the lines between mixing and mastering can be blurred a little
Incidentally, I now have a great mastering chain saved as a Pro-Channel preset, which I can load in to any project or use on a stereo WAV
I basically have one instance of Ozone 6 set up with eq, exciter, dynamics, imager --> then I have the option to use the tape emulator (or other fx within the pro-channel using fx chains) --> then I have another instance of Ozone 6 with the post-eq and maximiser
This setup allows me to add fx "within" the Ozone 6 change without having to run it in standalone mode
The only thing I lack is the volume matching bypass feature of Ozone as I need to bypass everything, which I would like to do in one click but I can't add pro-channel buttons to groups
To check out my music please visit: http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic Specs: Vortex Laptop i7-3740QM (2.70GHz) 6MB, 32GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3, 240GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, 750GB SEAGATE MOMENTUS XT HYBRID, BluRay, USB 2 & 3, Firewire, Audio Interface: M-Audio Fast Track Ultra + Focusrite VRM Box
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 04:43:27
(permalink)
Boydie
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
This is how I usually do it myself. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 06:52:15
(permalink)
Zargg71
Boydie
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
This is how I usually do it myself.
All the best.
Likewise 
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
gustabo
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2591
- Joined: 2009/01/05 17:32:38
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 09:50:26
(permalink)
I bounce the mix to stereo and pull the bounced track into a new project with Ozone 7 Advanced on the master bus for mastering.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 10:09:08
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Geo524 2016/03/18 13:31:14
Bristol_Jonesey
Zargg71
Boydie
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
This is how I usually do it myself.
All the best.
Likewise
I'm going to fly the flag for not doing it this way. Just a personal view, of course, but here's my argument. The longer you listen, the more things to change you will find. And there is no upper bound on this. You can literally go for as long as mortality allows. Maybe the hi-hat could be louder. Maybe the bass could be more prominent. Maybe the thing on the left could go on the right. Will any of this have any impact on how much it connects with an audience? Well, after a certain point, no. All the real value of a mix, I think, happens in the first few hours. After that, you're just prevaricating. And possibly even making things worse. I like to get the mix so it's exciting, and then either master it, or hand it over to someone else to master, and mark it DONE. If, during the mastering process, I think, "hmm, maybe we could have had the shaker 1/3dB louder", my default decision is "ah well, who cares". Very occasionally, there'll be something that makes me think, "no, really need to go back to the mix on this". This is extremely rare. None of that's because I'm a god-like mixing wizard; I'm not. But I do know a lot about one thing, which is how to finish stuff. And a good way to finish stuff is to not keep giving yourself easy back-doors and room to lose both your original vision and your nerve. If the current record has a flaw, make note, and resolve to do better on the next one. I think that's key to two things that I'm guessing we all want: both to get stuff done, and to get better at doing stuff. And I've seen this many times: someone who has spent years working on music, has started a hundred things, and finished none. I really believe it's good to learn how to live with your decisions. Nothing will ever be perfect. You will never be 100% happy. Something will always niggle at you. That, right there, is the price of creativity. So while people are saying you can blur the line between mixing and mastering, well, sure. You can. You can, alternately, build a massive wall between the two, with heavy security and unleashed attack dogs. I think the latter tends to be far more productive.
post edited by John T - 2016/03/18 15:17:11
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
jackson white
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 283
- Joined: 2008/02/19 21:35:13
- Location: BOS
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 11:11:07
(permalink)
John T All the real value of a mix ... happens in the first few hours. amen, before rigor mortis sets in and a corollary learned the hard way trying to recapture demo magic with a 'professional' recording. biggest delta comes with knowing your gear well enough to focus on performance instead of perfection. ... still working on it.
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 11:13:00
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby kevinwal 2016/03/18 15:10:42
gustabo
I bounce the mix to stereo and pull the bounced track into a new project with Ozone 7 Advanced on the master bus for mastering.
Lots of folks do it that way. One benefit is you don't need to adjust your buffers. It's also great when you're mastering a collection of songs and want to hear them side by side or fade one into another for a CD album. But for a single song, there's a major drawback: not being able to tweak the mix as part of the mastering process. Wait a minute, you're thinking, mastering and mixing are separate processes! Well, mastering often reveals problems that are best resolved in the mix. For example, you brighten and compress the full mix but now your cymbals are too prominent, or emphasizes vocal sibilants. A good mastering engineer can deal with that, but it will involve compromises that would be unnecessary if the source tracks are adjusted in the mix.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 12:08:19
(permalink)
John T
I really believe it's good to learn how to live with your decisions. Nothing will ever be perfect. You will never be 100% happy. Something will always niggle at you. That, right there, is the price of creativity.
This however, is one of the problems I face to often. But something I am trying to get better at. Well put, John. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Boydie
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 370
- Joined: 2010/02/28 14:55:04
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 12:28:17
(permalink)
@JOHN T
I agree with your general point but I disagree that this is a reason not master on the "master bus" of a mix
In all things "creative" there must be an element of self control but at any stage in the process you could keep striving for perfection and not move on (recording, performance, mixing, eq, mastering etc. etc.) so whilst I agree that committing to something is good practice I agree with the comment BitFlipper makes about fixing the mix rather than the master
Luckily we have lots of options with SONAR to suit how each of us work
To check out my music please visit: http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic Specs: Vortex Laptop i7-3740QM (2.70GHz) 6MB, 32GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3, 240GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, 750GB SEAGATE MOMENTUS XT HYBRID, BluRay, USB 2 & 3, Firewire, Audio Interface: M-Audio Fast Track Ultra + Focusrite VRM Box
|
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 647
- Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
- Location: UpState, NY
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 13:25:10
(permalink)
John T
Bristol_Jonesey
Zargg71
Boydie
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
This is how I usually do it myself.
All the best.
Likewise
I'm going to fly the flag for not doing it this way. Just a personal view, of course, but here's my argument.
The longer you listen, the more things to change you will find. And there is no upper bound on this. You can literally go for as long as mortality allows.
Maybe the hi-hat could be louder. Maybe the bass could be more prominent. Maybe the thing on the left could go on the right. Will any of this have any impact on how much it connects with an audience? Well, after a certain point, no.
All the real value of a mix, I think, happens in the first few hours. After that, you're just prevaricating. And possibly even making things worse.
I like to get the mix so it's exciting, and then either master it, or hand it over to someone else to master, and mark it DONE. If, during the mastering process, I think, "hmm, maybe we could have had the shaker 1/3dB louder", my default decision is "ah well, who cares". Very occasionally, there'll be something that makes me thing, "no, really need to go back to the mix on this". This is extremely rare.
None of that's because I'm a god-like mixing wizard; I'm not. But I do know a lot about one thing, which is how to finish stuff. And a good way to finish stuff is to not keep giving yourself easy back-doors and room to lose both your original vision and your nerve. If the current record has a flaw, make note, and resolve to do better on the next one.
I think that's key to two things that I'm guessing we all want: both to get stuff done, and to get better at doing stuff. And I've seen this many times: someone who has spent years working on music, has started a hundred things, and finished none.
I really believe it's good to learn how to live with your decisions. Nothing will ever be perfect. You will never be 100% happy. Something will always niggle at you. That, right there, is the price of creativity.
So while people are saying you can blur the line between mixing and mastering, well, sure. You can. You can, alternately, build a massive wall between the two, with heavy security and unleashed attack dogs. I think the latter tends to be far more productive.
I couldn't agree more. In the past I''d spend hours, days on a mix only to find that my first 3 (usually) were the better ones to begin with. So many other things could've been accomplished with the time lost.  These days I pay more attention to the tracking phase, arrangement of instruments, the parts being played and spend less time mixing.
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
|
Chregg
Max Output Level: -51.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2382
- Joined: 2010/02/22 06:14:27
- Location: Perth, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 13:50:35
(permalink)
John T
Bristol_Jonesey
Zargg71
Boydie
If I am mastering my own mixes (or mixes I have made from raw tracks submitted by clients) I will do my mastering within the project on the "master bus" so that if required I can go back to the original mix and tweak anything "on the fly" rather than trying to "fix it" in the mastering
This is how I usually do it myself.
All the best.
Likewise
I'm going to fly the flag for not doing it this way. Just a personal view, of course, but here's my argument.
The longer you listen, the more things to change you will find. And there is no upper bound on this. You can literally go for as long as mortality allows.
Maybe the hi-hat could be louder. Maybe the bass could be more prominent. Maybe the thing on the left could go on the right. Will any of this have any impact on how much it connects with an audience? Well, after a certain point, no.
All the real value of a mix, I think, happens in the first few hours. After that, you're just prevaricating. And possibly even making things worse.
I like to get the mix so it's exciting, and then either master it, or hand it over to someone else to master, and mark it DONE. If, during the mastering process, I think, "hmm, maybe we could have had the shaker 1/3dB louder", my default decision is "ah well, who cares". Very occasionally, there'll be something that makes me thing, "no, really need to go back to the mix on this". This is extremely rare.
None of that's because I'm a god-like mixing wizard; I'm not. But I do know a lot about one thing, which is how to finish stuff. And a good way to finish stuff is to not keep giving yourself easy back-doors and room to lose both your original vision and your nerve. If the current record has a flaw, make note, and resolve to do better on the next one.
I think that's key to two things that I'm guessing we all want: both to get stuff done, and to get better at doing stuff. And I've seen this many times: someone who has spent years working on music, has started a hundred things, and finished none.
I really believe it's good to learn how to live with your decisions. Nothing will ever be perfect. You will never be 100% happy. Something will always niggle at you. That, right there, is the price of creativity.
So while people are saying you can blur the line between mixing and mastering, well, sure. You can. You can, alternately, build a massive wall between the two, with heavy security and unleashed attack dogs. I think the latter tends to be far more productive.
+1000 treat mixing and mastering as separate processes, 2 different hats
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 13:59:51
(permalink)
Chregg
+1000 treat mixing and mastering as separate processes, 2 different hats
That's another good point, yeah, that I'd not really touched on. If you're still twiddling with the mix, then your mind is not properly in "big picture" mode.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 14:22:31
(permalink)
I have been known to put Ozone on the master buss on occasion. Its a cheat to me and I don't think its the best way to do things but like many I will rush the process because it can be done. I do have my own mastering Sonar template I use to properly master a song. Its just sometimes fun to see what one can do with Ozone on the master buss of a mix. The template has about a dozen plugins all turned off except the ones for analysis and I engage each as needed. This also includes some PC plugins too.
In this case its a situation of do as I say not as I do. LOL
|
amiller
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 876
- Joined: 2006/01/28 19:54:49
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 14:28:26
(permalink)
Good stuff...thanks guys! 
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 14:30:01
(permalink)
I have to side with John too. I do sometimes slap a Waves L2 on the master bus for loudness and peak limiting but to actually master your own music is almost a contradictio in terminis. You mix until you think your mix sounds good. The mastering engineer who gets your song checks things like "is the overall sound too harsh or boomy" and "how is the stereo image" and "how does it compare to other tracks in the genre". This is all stuff you're doing during your mix phase too. The point is to have someone else with a fresh look and a lot of experience check these things. It makes no sense to me to first mix to where you think it sounds great and then slap on another compressor and EQ and think that you can suddenly have a fresh perspective and an objective ear.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 14:49:57
(permalink)
Yeah. When I'm mastering my own mixes, which comes up for largely budgetary reasons, I like to finish the mixing, leave them alone for a week or two, and then do the mastering as a completely different step, in a completely different frame of mind.
I think there's been some muddying of the waters in recent years about exactly what "mastering" means, mind you. If you want master bus compression effects on your mix, then by all means, do that in your mix. That's not mastering, though, or at least not in my book.Going back and forth between you master bus processing and your general processing... well, that's mixing.
Mastering is preparing the final files for duplication and digital delivery, mindful of the context (ie: is this an album / ep / single track / for use in film / something else). This will often involve some sonic changes, but ideally, we should be delivering an optimised version of what's already there, not "correcting" it.
As a matter of course, I generate a vinyl master, a CD master, and a download / streaming master. I also derive mp3 files from the streaming master. Sometimes people might not want all of those, so of course I check. Have delivered three albums for vinyl this year already though, interestingly enough.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 15:15:20
(permalink)
Some people ask whether you need a mastering engineer if your mix is where it should be. My usual answer is I've never a heard a mix that a good mastering engineer couldn't improve to some degree. As a result I always used professional mastering engineers until 1989, when the mastering engineer for many projects (Randy Kling) said "You don't need me any more." My mixes had (finally!!) reached a point where they needed just a little EQ and dynamics touchup, so more and more, I'm doing that in the master bus and generating a master, then using Studio One to assemble the masters (if applicable) into an album, balance levels, check for flow, etc. However, because I work on projects in parallel, I have the luxury of being able to leave projects alone for an extended period of time. I'll take my mixes and put them in a portable player, and listen to them at various times. If I hear something that bothers me, I know that it will only bother me more in the future if I don't fix it. So I go back to the project, make a tweak, run off another mix and again, listen over time. If I leave a few weeks between listens it's like being able to have a fresh set of ears because I've heard so much other stuff in between. For example I've done one more iteration since posting the preview to my "Neo-" album. Over the course of doing the album, I tended to use less and less vocal processing; so two songs done early on with more processing sounded out of place in context. I went back and changed the processing so the vocals had a more "direct" sound, which I think improved the album's impact. If nothing else, this illustrates that everyone has different techniques that work for them. But, if someone was to choose only one way of working, I'd recommend John's
|
Chregg
Max Output Level: -51.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2382
- Joined: 2010/02/22 06:14:27
- Location: Perth, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 15:22:19
(permalink)
John T
Chregg
+1000 treat mixing and mastering as separate processes, 2 different hats
That's another good point, yeah, that I'd not really touched on. If you're still twiddling with the mix, then your mind is not properly in "big picture" mode.
i think people loose perspective working like that
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 15:31:22
(permalink)
I know I do. It's important to manage your own cognitive biases and weaknesses.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
Chregg
Max Output Level: -51.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2382
- Joined: 2010/02/22 06:14:27
- Location: Perth, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/18 16:55:18
(permalink)
i mix into compressors in every mix, for the glue, thats it
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What, where to insert mastering plugin?
2016/03/19 23:11:47
(permalink)
I don't do anything at all on the master bus, myself. I know some people really like to mix into a master bus compressor, but I personally find it too confusing and unpredictable. Not saying it's a bad thing, just my brain doesn't work that way.
What I *do* do is have a lot of things going into buses other than the master bus, and do compression / parallel compression on certain groups of sounds. I like to have a parallel bus with kick, snare and bass, for example. I'll often have a compressor on a backing vocal bus, as well as compressors on the individual vocal tracks. But compression for "glue" is all done before hitting the master bus.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|