What would really happen if there was an EMP attack? One done right. ??

Would we lose the last 25+ years of culture? I suppose no cars, trucks, or trains would run until the computers were replaced and making new computer parts would likely be a problem because I'm sure the manufacturing of new computers requires other computers. So, no food or anything else would be moving and the stores, pharmacies, etc would be bare within a couple of days.
If you happened to have an old car, pre-computer and you drove it you would likely be attacked and killed for the vehicle.
I guess all digital music and documents would be gone. I am not sure about CDs.
I'm sure I'm not thinking about other things that would be a big problem but "smart weapons" would likely not work. Checkouts at stores wouldn't work. Banking wouldn't work. All government records would be lost. Right?
 
What do you think in a scenario where someone actually was able to explode several EMPs over the USA and maybe some other places.
 
What would happen. Would it really be that bad? Would we lose all music that isn't analog? All e-books, all computers, all cell phones. Would it be the dark ages again for a few months?
I suppose mst guns would still work, at least the ones that don't require a fingerprint or something.
 
I am genuinely curious. I have read things but I don't really know. I do know that a LOT of people cannot eat without opening a can or a bag. I can but I am smart enough to keep my head low and perhaps camp out for a while.
 
So, what would really happen?
 
J
 

No. Why do "they" say that all digital media and computers would be fried? Is it just conspiracy theory? I am relieved...
 

 
J

jamesg1213
It would be like the 1970's. I liked them.

There would be Orange Sunshine and good music? Ok then!
 
J

It depends on how serious it was ...local isolated ? or a major grid grinder ?...
 
Life as some folks know would probably change in a very big way ..not for the better ...
Hospitals may have back up electrically .Even then for how long ? and who gets to get helped ?
Socially it would be a disaster in a large metropolitan city. No electricity , no way too communicate easily unless you have a hand crank radio to hear who else is effected in the scheme of GEO .
No more fresh water , no more food delivery's , no more transportation structure .
If you are an average Joe or Jane and choose to hoof it your status in the human food chain has just been reassigned to Prey .
Of course we all know that law enforcement and large agency's Like The Friends w Benefits agency that wanted to crack the Apple Phone  will have some sort of mobility ...
I have been exposed to riots and I can tell you fist hand there is no such thing as having a friend anymore ...
My dog will probably get shot for food unless I'm a quicker draw  .....
Seen this personally ...large groups of people will loot and do things they would never dream of doing ...
Organized gangs will make a power play and try to take control of resources ...food warehouses and  storage facilitys...
The average citizen will be under siege from all ends of the opposing social elements .
Getting the squeeze from the Bad guys and the ummm bad guys that are supposed to be the good guys say aren't they supposed to be following orders   ....
Who's giving them? that's what worries me ...
 
I have said enough ...that is only the tip of the iceberg ...   
 
 
 
signed
PPPssstt Este Loco  ...that 's what they used to call me back in the day before computers , hybrid cars and sobriety     

Power stations down, sewage treatment plants non-functional, all networks down (home, work, internet, phones, cable, satellite dishes, etc.), anything with non-Military shielded sensitive electronics fried, hospitals in trouble, refrigeration lost...
 
Not a pretty site for our electronically pampered nation!
 
But also one of the primary conspiracy theories for what's coming.

Conspiracy or reality?  Who knows.  I really don;t want to find out. Unless it's like some sort of worldwide zombie virus.... which, in that case, I'm tempted to say.... bring it on.
 
EMP is possible, I guess. It would take a suicidal nation to do it though. I'm guessing our military is well prepared to return fire from deep inside Cheyenne Mountain.  Just how damaging it would be depends on a large number of factors. One is distance.... the further you are from the point of detonation, the less damage you would incur. It also depends on how "hardened" the computers and electronic devices are.  If they are not running and at a distance, like cars, there might be no damage.
In a worst case scenario, where the enemy decides to hit hard and in multiple locations..... if successful, it would knock out the electrical grids in the USA. There are 3 interconnected grids. You could take out several major substations simultaneously and have the same effect without firing nuke missiles.  A dozen coordinated strike teams could do it too. 3 to 4 attacks on substations in each of the 3 grids at approximately the same time, would start a cascading effect of shutting down the grids. Overloaded transformers will either blow or trip like dominoes falling, effectively taking the entire system of 3 grids down. The result would be grid down nation wide.  It could be several weeks to months or even years before power gets back up depending on the method used to take it down and the damage caused in the process.  Without electricity.... we are instantly in the 1800's again. We do not have the transformers needed to repair the grid setting in a warehouse since it would likely be thousands of them needed. They have to be built, one at a time, in a factory...which has no power to run the machinery needed.

Seriously in deep poo.  Not many folks know how to live and survive in that kind of world. In 3 days, all the food in the supply line is gone. Gasoline isn't available either.  10 days in people are panicked and starting to eat things they would never think of eating. 30 days in, starvation starts to kill off the people unable to get food. At about this same time, lack of water for sanitation has lead to 3rd world diseases like cholera and dysentery making a return to this land. Lawless gangs will be roving looking for food, water, food, guns, ammunition, and anything else they want or need. They will kill to get it. Telephones, both land line and cell are not going to work. Calling 911 would be useless since the govt especially at the local levels and state as well as federal levels will be in a similar situation. So you can't count on the police to come to your aid.  On the good side of that, the IRS will likely have lost all your records.
If the power is off for 12 months or more, some people familiar with this kind of scenario estimate that 90% of the population will be dead from one thing or another. Mostly disease or starvation.  This of course does not factor in what any of the rest of the world would be doing during this time. If they are affected as well, because our govt was able to nuke them back.... they will have their own issues to deal with. However, if they are still operational, they will obviously become a player in the issues we are having to deal with as well as the problems directly caused by the grid down.

And it really wouldn't necessarily have to be terrorists with a plan or rogue nations with EMP's. Our sun is very capable of creating a first class Carrington Event all by itself. It did that back in the mid 1800's and all we had at the time were telegraphs. It set some of the telegraph stations on fire and melted the wires on the poles.... In fact, quite recently, there have been some sizable coronal mass ejections that missed our planet by mere days and had the potential to wreak havoc on our civilization. On those Carrington events, we do get a few days notice fortunately.

Should one of those events happen and we are "grid down" for more than a few days..... I would definitely miss being able to play music on the computer and to record.... but I probably wouldn't miss it too much. I'd be too busy fighting of the roving herds of zombies wanting to eat my brain and hunting for food on a daily basis.

J , I'm gonna have to give it more thought before I do a counterpoint ...
I think Herb hit a few key points ..
Kenny

webbs hill studio
as a failed hippie I remember the realisation that the utopian,supposedly alternative  subculture we all aspired to would be a prime target if the faeces hit the fan.
in the 70`s I wrote a paranoid short story, during the oil crisis,recruiting nurses and warriors to defend the "farm"-it finished with pre mad max hordes roaring over the hill. 
 
at the time there was not the dependency on the net for all things-it was the power grid and the fuel that fed it that mattered by then,fuelled by the post war boom and strung out over vast distances,ripe for sabotage.
now we have the internet and how fragile is that?
seriously-blind freddies dog can see we have outlived our nadir as the ultimate agrarian animal and there are just too many of us and too many to come.
I am sitting here in the house I built,with my own water,power and sewerage,eating the last of the mandarins,knowing that the nearest supermarket is walking distance away.
you can see my solar panels from the highway-they stick out like dogs balls.
welcoming the walking hungry-who needs zombies-hunger is our natural state.
thanks for reminding me.....more coffee.
or maybe I have had too much already?
cheers 

I was a failed Hippie too but really I was one of Zappa's phony Hippies (popping up in every town... We're Only in it For the Money) I made it to SF in '68 for a few days but joined the "counter culture" in 1970. I was just there for the party. It was one heck of a party too!!!
These days I just work, or worked. My wife works. I try to live responsibility. I try to give to those in need, what is more important? Life is short. Still, I have a problem with the idea of people taking from me but not really so much me but from those who depend on me. I'd like to think I could and would "turn the other cheek" and "go two miles is compelled to go one". I have not been tested that way though,,, but I will not sit aside and see others abused... it is hard to think about. We all die. I hope to die well. not trying to save myself but it would be my wish to die for someone else... since I have to die anyway. Since death comes to everyone I think the martyrs death would certainly be the best way to go.  That's my thinking anyway.
So, I'll protect if I can but if it's just me I'll abandon, give, try to live and forgive. What else is better? We are all so self centered. Some may think they are not, but I think we all are.
Well right now I'm watching Lynyrd Skynyrd playing Pronounced and Second Helping on TV... good stuff.
Good times for now... who is the guy who replaced Hughie?
 
J
 

Guitarhacker
Conspiracy or reality?  Who knows.  I really don;t want to find out. Unless it's like some sort of worldwide zombie virus.... which, in that case, I'm tempted to say.... bring it on.
 
EMP is possible, I guess. It would take a suicidal nation to do it though. I'm guessing our military is well prepared to return fire from deep inside Cheyenne Mountain.  Just how damaging it would be depends on a large number of factors. One is distance.... the further you are from the point of detonation, the less damage you would incur. It also depends on how "hardened" the computers and electronic devices are.  If they are not running and at a distance, like cars, there might be no damage.
In a worst case scenario, where the enemy decides to hit hard and in multiple locations..... if successful, it would knock out the electrical grids in the USA. There are 3 interconnected grids. You could take out several major substations simultaneously and have the same effect without firing nuke missiles.  A dozen coordinated strike teams could do it too. 3 to 4 attacks on substations in each of the 3 grids at approximately the same time, would start a cascading effect of shutting down the grids. Overloaded transformers will either blow or trip like dominoes falling, effectively taking the entire system of 3 grids down. The result would be grid down nation wide.  It could be several weeks to months or even years before power gets back up depending on the method used to take it down and the damage caused in the process.  Without electricity.... we are instantly in the 1800's again. We do not have the transformers needed to repair the grid setting in a warehouse since it would likely be thousands of them needed. They have to be built, one at a time, in a factory...which has no power to run the machinery needed.

Seriously in deep poo.  Not many folks know how to live and survive in that kind of world. In 3 days, all the food in the supply line is gone. Gasoline isn't available either.  10 days in people are panicked and starting to eat things they would never think of eating. 30 days in, starvation starts to kill off the people unable to get food. At about this same time, lack of water for sanitation has lead to 3rd world diseases like cholera and dysentery making a return to this land. Lawless gangs will be roving looking for food, water, food, guns, ammunition, and anything else they want or need. They will kill to get it. Telephones, both land line and cell are not going to work. Calling 911 would be useless since the govt especially at the local levels and state as well as federal levels will be in a similar situation. So you can't count on the police to come to your aid.  On the good side of that, the IRS will likely have lost all your records.
If the power is off for 12 months or more, some people familiar with this kind of scenario estimate that 90% of the population will be dead from one thing or another. Mostly disease or starvation.  This of course does not factor in what any of the rest of the world would be doing during this time. If they are affected as well, because our govt was able to nuke them back.... they will have their own issues to deal with. However, if they are still operational, they will obviously become a player in the issues we are having to deal with as well as the problems directly caused by the grid down.

And it really wouldn't necessarily have to be terrorists with a plan or rogue nations with EMP's. Our sun is very capable of creating a first class Carrington Event all by itself. It did that back in the mid 1800's and all we had at the time were telegraphs. It set some of the telegraph stations on fire and melted the wires on the poles.... In fact, quite recently, there have been some sizable coronal mass ejections that missed our planet by mere days and had the potential to wreak havoc on our civilization. On those Carrington events, we do get a few days notice fortunately.

Should one of those events happen and we are "grid down" for more than a few days..... I would definitely miss being able to play music on the computer and to record.... but I probably wouldn't miss it too much. I'd be too busy fighting of the roving herds of zombies wanting to eat my brain and hunting for food on a daily basis.

Wow... I now am sure if anything like this happens it will be time to repair to the deep woods and stay hidden, living off squirrels, deer, opossum, dandelions, poke salad, and if in the deep south or coast swamp cabbage. There is a lot to eat in the woods. Most mushrooms that grow on trees are edible. Pine nuts. Acorns... it is doable but not comfortable.... no buffalo robes to be had. We would make it if we react with intelligence and not with waiting on someone else to help.
Thanks Herb.
 
J

I could prepare, but I think I'll just be one of the first casualties instead.  Having already lost everything once, I don't want to barely survive in an unenjoyable world.

For those following the New World Order stuff, the "Elite" already have tunnels and other underground shelters ready everywhere.  The next step is mass depopulation.  Heck, FEMA has already supposedly commandeered several Walmarts and turned them into processing areas plus there are lots of videos out there showing millions of plastic coffins (good for up to five bodies each and stackable) readily accessible for the event.  Yay.  

jbow
Does it take a faraday shield to protect or would a lead lined box protect some chips and thumb drives.
 
I didn't think about the electricity and water... that's what I meant. What am I not thinking about. I have water purification tabs and know where a spring is within walking distance. I have plenty of .22, .40, 00 buck, 
I don't really want offensive weapons but defensive. I'd love to know how to make a sort of Claymore... just in case.
Like I said, I am not a prepper,  .....I know how to keep a low profile. I keep a little rice and beans, not a lot but enough for a week. I know to fill the tubs and all bottles, to keep the water in the toilet tanks and water heater.
 
Thanks, I hope it doesn't happen but it is SUCH an easy thing to do. A low orbit, low yield nuclear device is all it takes. Three or four in the right places and we, if we are right... are in trouble.
I wonder how long it would take to get the food and water going again.. and electricity.

Good points
 
A microwave oven is a faraday cage of sorts. Lead lined isn't necessary. Google it and there's a bunch of info on how to make them. It's not hard or expensive. I've seen them made from metal garbage cans.
just a few more things to consider.
So.... in a survival situation, your first concern is to have a positive mental attitude...PMA.  Next, you need shelter of some sort if you're bugging out (more on that later).  Your next priority is water. Food is way down the list. 
 
remember the rules of 3.  
you can survive.....
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter (under adverse conditions.... think wet cold rain in the woods without shelter)
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

Clean water is critical. You die quickly without it and if you're drinking dirty water with parasites and bacteria, it's a painful, unpleasant way to expire. Use rain water to flush the toilet... you can even bathe in rain water. Don't drink it unless it's treated. And make water do double duty.... after washing clothes, use it to flush the toilet or water the garden.
 
Guns..... critical to have them and plenty of ammo for each. minimum of 3k rounds for each. A small firefight will burn through the ammo quickly. More importantly, during this sort of scenario, you will need stealth. Firing any gun, let alone the big calibers, is something that anyone within a mile can easily hear. Even the sound of a 22 shot carries a long way in the country and especially at night. Whether it's the govt or the bad guys and they might be one and the same if martial law is declared which is very likely during grid down. You need some silent forms of defense and a means to take game silently.  Bow and arrow or even a crossbow with bolts gives you a much smaller sonic footprint. I prefer a crossbow. It shoots and functions like a rifle and is unbelievably accurate, but slightly louder than a bow, but certainly much quieter than any gun except suppressed rifles of small caliber. I stopped firing 2 bolts at my target since I split more than my share of bolts... they are that accurate.  Also, consider getting a suppressor for the firearms. Smaller caliber rifles and pistols when suppressed are as quiet as a Crossman BB rifle. Also consider one of the "adult" pellet air rifles with the factory suppressors built in. Those things will blow your mind.  Supersonic muzzle velocity and whisper quiet.  A strong sword is a nice quiet weapon but does require some prior training.

On Claymores and other assorted booby traps.... have the knowledge but do not implement it until it's absolutely necessary.  Trip wires with shotgun shells are nice early warning devices, but all those trip wires and booby traps are dangerous and some are illegal currently.  A really good source of information on this sort of thing is available in book form at almost any military surplus store. I prefer books over the internet for this sort of research. No grid, no internet.

You may not consider yourself to be a prepper or even want to be one, but that was a way of life for our grandparents. It simply means being prepared and being self sufficient.  Remember your grandmother's pantry and root cellar? Unless they were city folk, they didn't have a drug store on the corner or a super market around the block. Medical supplies were stored until needed and a general store visit was a once a month thing. We have gotten used to having everything available in the store when we need it.  Everyone reading this should have a minimum of 3 months worth of canned and dry goods on the shelves for each member of the family. More is better because you know some of your relatives and friends won't have any.  Try learning a few of the old time skills. Learn how to cure meat to preserve it without refrigeration. And don't forget about toilet paper. 
 
Start slowly.... don't panic. The first goal is to stock up on enough food to last for 2 or 3 weeks for everyone in the house. When you hit that.... work on something else for a time, buy ammo or build some things, then start back stocking up for 3 months....taking it in steps. Don't let it overwhelm you but do keep on track. Will it happen this yeah?  Hopefully not. Perhaps next, or in 5 years?  Who knows. It may never happen. Here's how I look at prepping. I do it as an insurance policy of sorts. We all buy insurance that will likely never be money we recoup. But it's there in case we need that help. So, the food we store up..... if it's canned goods, rotate through the stock. In other words, use it but replace it so it doesn't expire. The dry goods will last decades. So, in 10 or 15 years if the zombie apocalypse hasn't started yet, eat the beans and replace them at that time.

Bug in or bug out? I hear lots of folks talking about bugging out. My first thought is that they are clueless. If I lived in a city, that would likely be my choice too.... BUT.... you have to have somewhere to go. You can't just wander up on someone's land out in the country and decide you're gonna stay there. There are very few publicly owned lands in the east. Out west maybe, but that is generally some serious wilderness and unless you know how to live off the land, you will die quickly out there. Wandering onto someones land is a good way to die. They will think you're there as an intruder or marauder intent on taking their food and water and shelter/home. So if you're gonna bug out, have a plan and a place to go. Bugging in is the better idea, but that entails being ready, willing, and able to defend it and those there with you. There is power in numbers. You can not defend your position by yourself because you have to sleep. You need help and preferably some of those people will have the skill set needed.... think ex military and LEO. Keep a low profile. Don't be dumping empty food cans in the back yard. That's a big sign telling everyone you have food.
Whether you bug in or out is a decision you must make and remember that nothing is ever written in stone.... be flexible. You might have an overwhelming force come against you and the only decision is to grab what you can and run.
 
As far as the question...When will things get back to normal after such an event?   Perhaps never. But most certainly, at least not until the electrical grid is back up and running.

Here in NC we have hurricanes and most recently, an ice storm. We were without power for 66 hrs in that ice storm. We have been close to 7 days without power after hurricanes in the summer.  I have a generator and can keep the lights on and the refrigerator running and with the like minded folks, we make it through.  The man who runs the gas station had the tanks filled the day before and the day after, he was pumping gas using a generator to run one or two pumps.
 
Cash only.... something else to consider.... money and a means to barter. If the economy is in collapse.... banks are closed.... grid down the bank computers are not working nor are the ATM's... you better have a plan and some cash. And there's also the possibility that the US dollar is worthless.... so the only thing the paper money is good for is burning to keep warm.... how are you going to be able to get the things you need?  Solve this and plan accordingly.
 
Our local 911 emergency center has a motto.... The first 72 is on you. It will take them a bit of time to get things organized so you have to be able to survive for 3 days on your own.  Use common sense and you'll likely be OK.

jbow

kennywtelejazz
J , I'm gonna have to give it more thought before I do a counterpoint ...
I think Herb hit a few key points ..
Kenny

There may not be a "counterpoint". Not from you...
 
J

Please explain , I have been super busy doing music and creating videos ...
I'm not exactly sure how to interpret your not from you comment
 
Kenny

Guitarhacker
 
 
3 hours without shelter (under adverse conditions.... think wet cold rain in the woods without shelter)
 
 

 
Pfft. Try being a gardener, in Scotland, in the Winter. I can spend all day outside in adverse conditions. (I do wear gloves, mind you, I'm not Chuck Norris..)