rontarrant
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What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
I keep hearing rumours about VST plugins than can be used for selecting, mixing and matching lead guitar samples into a lead line for a song. But finding them is difficult because I have no idea what they're called. I've searched for "guitar sequencer" and several other terms, words and phrases and I get about one or two usable hits for each. I've been searching for two days. Please feel free to jump in at any time and tell me what I'm talking about. 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 04:11:20
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 04:54:48
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Sanderxpander
I don't know about lead lines really but do you mean stuff like Virtual Guitarist (2)?
http://youtu.be/KfaPgp1pS3I
Thanks for the reply, Sanderxpander. That looks to be all about chords whereas I'm looking for a way to do a screaming lead break. The only reason I'm considering it is because I'm not much of a lead player. I can handle simple, melodic stuff, but this particular song cries out for something bordering on the insane and I just don't have the skills. So, bottom line: No, I don't think that's it. I did spend some time checking out virtual guitars (Ample Sound's offerings as well as Steinberg's) but they all seemed to be oriented toward doing chords rather than lead lines. What I'm looking for would involve (I think) pre-recorded bits of guitar and can be dragged-n-dropped onto some kind of scale/matrix thing to build a solo. I don't know; maybe it just doesn't exist.
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lfm
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 05:48:44
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"screaming lead break" hmmm.... automatically and doing something unique to fit your song...hmm.... I would just practice and do it on keyboard with pitchwheel until it fits somehow. A heavily distorted synth works pretty well I think or guitarsamples if you got it. Or look at advanced arpeggiators that you can program partly or to the level you want. That would have ability to stay in a key of the song and give sopmething to work with. You can generate melodylines from chord progressions in tools like Jammer Pro. It has some randomness to it and generate a different line every press of a key. Or look up Van Halens site and see what he charges... ;) Jokes aside, there are sites that offer their onlineservices and they have guitarplayers as well as full session musicians. I found this review at SOS for such places: http://www.soundonsound.c...les/onlinesessions.htm or just google "session musician work online" for plenty suggestions.
post edited by lfm - 2013/10/19 06:41:23
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 05:54:43
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I'd reach out to forum member Danny Danzi.
He is an excellent player and I'm sure could, for a small fee, write & play something that fits in with what you need.
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jerrypettit
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 12:46:04
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Band in a Box will generate solos for you. I usually "generate" a couple different ones AND slog through doing one myself, then comp. Ehh...
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jerrypettit
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 12:46:04
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Band in a Box will generate solos for you. I usually "generate" a couple different ones AND slog through doing one myself, then comp. Ehh...
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Dude Ivey
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/19 18:25:33
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Check out Ministry Of Rock 2. I think u can do pretty much anything with that. Its not a drag and drop type thing but the demos online sound pretty cool.
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indravayu
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 11:38:52
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As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.
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mettelus
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 11:42:45
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+1... for some things "computer only" has (sometimes extreme) limitations... as a guitarist, this thread made me cringe in a severe way as well :(
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Grem
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 11:52:27
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indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.
Some just don't possess the talent. Some will never have the ability no matter how hard they try. I think he has a great idea as far as the drag and drop thing. If I was a programmer I'd be on this.
Grem
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 13:07:58
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Thanks for all the feedback and ideas, guys. Lots to research and try out.
Note to the cringing guitarists: My apologies, guys. I'm a guitarist, too and it pains me that I can hear what I want in my head, but don't have the skills to record it. I thought of asking a guitarist to jump in and do a track, but I'm not sure if I could get it across or not.
-Ron T.
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ampfixer
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 13:15:24
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I remember an interview with Frank Zappa. HE said that he only hired musicians to do the things he couldn't do himself. That's why he had Steve Vai in his band.
A man's got to know his limitations.
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bapu
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 14:54:42
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ampfixer
I remember an interview with Frank Zappa. HE said that he only hired musicians to do the things he couldn't do himself. That's why he had Steve Vai in his band.
A man's got to know his limitations.
And Jean Lu Ponty And Flo and Eddie And Peter Wolf And And And
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slartabartfast
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 17:39:17
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I am a bit confused. You seem to be looking for something that will play a guitar the way you would like to play it, but you lack the technical skills. That sounds like you just need to step record or write a midi track in piano roll or staff view. You do not need any special VST device to do that. Of course you are then subject to the limits of sampled or simulated/modeled guitar on a softsynth or rompler, but with enough work you can probably get a very good sounding electric or a passable sounding acoustic guitar.
If you have no idea what you want the guitar to do, but are looking for the computer to compose something for you...good luck.
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mettelus
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/20 18:11:14
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Which version of SONAR are you running? Reason I asked was the "flip side" to my comment earlier... I came across a video on Celemony's site last week where they did something similar to what you are asking. It was titled "Guitar in the Style of Tom Morello" and it under the "Tutorials" tab... http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=videos If you have X3, then you might want to check that video out. What was interesting about this video was... the person played essentially the same note to the "pace" of the solo... and threw in a few bends and other "rhythmic elements." They then took this solo in Melodyne Editor (I believe) and tweaked it in some *extreme* ways. It started out as just a handful of notes being played to the pace of the solo pretty much. Now the "flip side" to my earlier comment... I had a musician friend over when I was watching that video and I began laughing.... when they asked why, I said "What they just created is impossible to actually play!" LOL... even in the video they said something like "For the end part ... phrase that sounds almost impossible to play."  Edit: I had to watch that again to get another chuckle... they even put a little sound bite at the end running the final product through Guitar Rig's wah.
post edited by mettelus - 2013/10/20 18:42:58
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 06:14:28
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ampfixer
I remember an interview with Frank Zappa. HE said that he only hired musicians to do the things he couldn't do himself. That's why he had Steve Vai in his band.
A man's got to know his limitations.
I agree whole-heartedly. Although, I suppose one could make a strong argument for pushing one's limits as well. 
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 06:18:41
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slartabartfastI am a bit confused. You seem to be looking for something that will play a guitar the way you would like to play it, but you lack the technical skills. It doesn't sound to me like you're confused. slartabartfastThat sounds like you just need to step record or write a midi track in piano roll or staff view. I've done this in the past; I was hoping to find a faster way, is all. slartabartfastIf you have no idea what you want the guitar to do, but are looking for the computer to compose something for you...good luck. Okay, now you sound confused. 
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 06:43:23
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mettelusWhich version of SONAR are you running? X1, unfortunately... Or NOT so unfortunately, depending on your POV. mettelusthe person played essentially the same note to the "pace" of the solo... and threw in a few bends and other "rhythmic elements." They then took this solo in Melodyne Editor (I believe) and tweaked it in some *extreme* ways. It started out as just a handful of notes being played to the pace of the solo pretty much. Something similar could be done with DSP, couldn't it? It might not be as accurate, but after running it through an amp plugin, it might sound reasonable at least.
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Tom Riggs
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 09:08:11
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If you can play what you hear in your head slower. Then play it that tempo and then speed it up.
I think you could do this with Audio Snap as long as you are prepared to do the work.
I would export a mix to a new project. Import it into a new project set to the same tempo as the project you are working on. Then enable AS on the imported clip. set AS to follow project tempo. Then just slow down the tempo of the project and practice till you can play it at that tempo.
You could practice speeding it up till you find your limit. Then record your guitar track.
comp if necessary. Then bounce the comped track to a new track.
Enable AS on this new track and set it to follow the tempo. Then change the project tempo back to the original.
if this all works then you can bounce the new sped up track to another track and then export that track to import into your original project.
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vanblah
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 09:54:35
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You may just be looking for samples or loops. Google guitar solo loops.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 09:59:42
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☄ Helpfulby Mistergreen 2013/10/23 10:07:22
Bristol_Jonesey
I'd reach out to forum member Danny Danzi.
He is an excellent player and I'm sure could, for a small fee, write & play something that fits in with what you need.
You rule, thank you for thinking of/mentioning me kind Sir! :) For those of you depressed about this thread, I lost a gig to this 2 weeks ago: http://www.prominy.com/demo/SC/video/Underwater_World.html The client felt it was better to have his friend program what he was after in that software...which was more money than I would have charged him for a solo section. It really bothers me to see how cheap people are when they really want something done right. I get an email a week later that he changed his mind and wanted me to create the part......I told him to go to the beach....and pound sand up his butt! If you're gonna lose a gig, go down in flames while keeping your dignity! LOL! :) Anyway, something like Prominy may be worth looking at, rontarrant. Personally, you'd be better off just hiring someone to play what you need instead of $400.00 plus expansion packs for that thing. You can ask in the Coffee House forum if anyone would be interested in playing on your piece as well. Quite a few great players who may play on it for free for you. -Danny
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mettelus
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 17:41:45
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I will admit that the sound of that is rather impressive. I wouldn't be upset at all if this becomes the major plug-in slated for X4 pro
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phrygiann
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/21 21:23:18
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Or you might be thinking of the arpeggiator . X2 has dont know about x3.
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 11:12:11
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Tom Riggs
If you can play what you hear in your head slower. Then play it that tempo and then speed it up.
I think you could do this with Audio Snap as long as you are prepared to do the work.
I would export a mix to a new project. Import it into a new project set to the same tempo as the project you are working on. Then enable AS on the imported clip. set AS to follow project tempo. Then just slow down the tempo of the project and practice till you can play it at that tempo.
You could practice speeding it up till you find your limit. Then record your guitar track.
comp if necessary. Then bounce the comped track to a new track.
Enable AS on this new track and set it to follow the tempo. Then change the project tempo back to the original.
if this all works then you can bounce the new sped up track to another track and then export that track to import into your original project.
Yup, that sounds like a good approach. Thanks for the suggestion, Tom.
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 11:16:55
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vanblah
You may just be looking for samples or loops. Google guitar solo loops.
I don't know why I didn't think of that particular combination of words, but I found a bunch of stuff. Thanks, vanblah.
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rontarrant
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 11:24:04
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Danny DanziAnyway, something like Prominy may be worth looking at, rontarrant. Personally, you'd be better off just hiring someone to play what you need instead of $400.00 plus expansion packs for that thing. You can ask in the Coffee House forum if anyone would be interested in playing on your piece as well. Quite a few great players who may play on it for free for you. Thanks, Danny. I'm really not trying to put musicians out of work; I hope I didn't put that idea across. Hell, I made a living as a musician for almost two years, so I'm very much in favour of musicians making a living. It was one of the best times of my life. Composing on spec puts me in a position where I have to do it all myself as cheaply as possible. Right now, I make far more money as an actor and that ain't saying much. And you're right, it's not worth buying a $400 plugin when a session guitarist could likely to it for half that, if not less (depending on what's needed, of course). I'd even consider it this time if it wasn't for the complexity of the song. I don't write/read music and so I'd have to get it across with gestures, words and humming. I doubt anyone who even understand me.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 11:37:12
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Start by trying to write what's in you head on the piano roll.
Most synths contain a reasonable guitar-like sound to start you off (try the Pentagon, or Dimension Pro)
Some of them might even include hammer-ons & pull-offs.
You can easily set the bend range to say an octave if you're wanting Vai-esque dive bombs in there.
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Grem
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 12:13:26
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Good info Danny. There was a lot of key switching going on in that demo. I mean a lot! You would have to be a very good keyboardist and very familiar with that program to do what we saw in that demo.
Step recording with it may be an option. But I am thinking the learning curve and xpacks would really start adding up to "Is this really worth it?"
Grem
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jeebustrain
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Re: What's that Thing Called? You Know, that Thing?
2013/10/22 12:27:45
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indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.
Heh, as a drummer, the 9000 other threads about drum machines, midi patterns, and drum sound replacement do the same. Fortunately, I've moved on.
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