Whatever's On Your Mind-Original

Author
Johnbee58
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 925
  • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
  • Location: Reading PA
  • Status: offline
2018/10/16 01:10:12 (permalink)

Whatever's On Your Mind-Original

Attempt at arranging a horn section here.  Yeah, I know you're going to be tempted to say the horns sound fake, but I did the best I could.  I worked hard on the arrangement so not withstanding the fake sounds I hope you'll at least like the arrangement.  Also using my "soul voice" which some people have said sounds better then when I try to sing straight.
 
Enjoy, if you can.  I know my stuff sucks big time compared to some others on this forum.
https://johnbowen.bandcamp.com/track/whatevers-on-your-mind
 
John B.

Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
 
 "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
#1

17 Replies Related Threads

    daryl1968
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10922
    • Joined: 2010/06/01 22:51:43
    • Location: Englishman in deepest, darkest Wales
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/16 08:53:12 (permalink)
    I really like this, definite shades of Steely Dan and yes, they sound fake but I do appreciate the horn arrangement.
    Mixwise, I think you could dial back the effect on your voice a tad. Good stuff though.
    #2
    Wookiee
    Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
    • Total Posts : 13284
    • Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
    • Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/16 17:49:16 (permalink)
    Do not put yourself down John at least you are trying, this works for me fake horns or not.

    You might like to have a read on this series of article's from Sound on Sound about arranging for Brass this part 1 from 2015, links to the other part 2,3,4 are at the end of the article.

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
    Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
    Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit
    Secondary  i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit
    CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8 
    #3
    Freddy J
    Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2334
    • Joined: 2009/03/09 21:05:54
    • Location: Lutz, FL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/16 18:34:20 (permalink)
    I agree with the comments above.  It is a great arrangement that you have developed for this song and kudos for your attempt with the horns.  Actually, they don't sound that bad to me and their placement is well done.  I too struggle with anything MIDI or synth.  I have been listening a lot to mainly sax playing focusing in on the breathing, timing and note changing, and that is hard to emulate using MIDI/synth. 
     
     
    #4
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/16 23:59:14 (permalink)
    Thanks Daryl, Wook & Freddy.  I appreciate your comments on the song and the horns.  I was contemplating posting this for several months but resisted because I'm so tired of having to apologize for my string and horn work.  What ticks me off is that most of the time they don't even comment on the arrangement.  They go right to how they sound fake and how much of a shame that is.  Some people have made me feel as if I have no right to even post a song with horns or string arrangements because it's some kind of sin that they don't sound real.  I'm just one guy.  I can't afford to pay real players and I'm just doing this for fun.  I've been trying for years to learn how to manipulate MIDI notes for realistic sounding instruments and I gave up long ago.  Not much on the the internet that you don't have to pay hundreds of dollars for just to learn.  I can't afford  equipment like a wind controller or a keyboard that can accept one.  I've given up on it and I appreciate people who can just use their imaginations and have the decency not to rub it in. 
     
    People tell me that the biggest problem is the lack of attack on the horns and I agree with that. I use Garritan Jazz & Big Band and they are not too big on attack in their samples.  It's as if they didn't build attack into them.  There has to be an attack on a trumpet or sax or trombone for them to sound real, I agree.  I can't build into a program what's not there, but I try.  Believe me.  I try!
     


    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #5
    bjornpdx
    Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 748
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 11:41:29
    • Location: Portland, Oregon
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/17 05:32:45 (permalink)
    Hey John
    Well I thought the horns sounded decent. I've had comments about my expensive string library sounding pretty fake when I thought they sounded great.
    Anyway, I like your song. It reminds me of Steely Dan because the arrangement is kind of tricky or maybe sophisticated is a better word. I had to listen a couple of times to appreciate what you did there. Very nice.



    Bjorn
    soundcloud.com/orygun
    www.bjornfredrickson.com
    https://store.cdbaby.com/Artist/BjornFredrickson
     
    Purrfect Audio Pro Studio, RME UCX
    Cakewalk by Bandlab,  Studio One,  Reaper
    #6
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/17 10:16:43 (permalink)
    bjornpdx
    Hey John
    Well I thought the horns sounded decent. I've had comments about my expensive string library sounding pretty fake when I thought they sounded great.
    Anyway, I like your song. It reminds me of Steely Dan because the arrangement is kind of tricky or maybe sophisticated is a better word. I had to listen a couple of times to appreciate what you did there. Very nice.




    Yeah.  I admit it's kinda busy, but that's the way Steely Dan tends to do things and they're one of the biggest influences on me.  From what I've been gathering over the past several years, it's extremely rare that somebody is able to convince listeners that MIDI performances from sample libraries are real.  I guess it comes down to a combination of a rare talent in that specific area along with expensive (professional) samples and equipment.  Something people in our relatively limited income area will probably never see.  I think even Hans Zimmer ultimately has to have a real orchestra do the finished work on his film scores.  That may be a good thing in that there is still work for real musicians.
     
    JB

    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #7
    Wayfarer
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 767
    • Joined: 2017/07/15 02:32:25
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/23 04:27:12 (permalink)
    You've got some of the best music in this forum, and your vocal is getting better all the time. This was the best I've ever heard it. I thought the horns were very convincing most of the time. The only thing I might reconsider is that Accordion solo at 2:41. It was a good solo, but I'm not sure an accordion is a good fit with the other instrumentation you've got going on. If that was a midi track, you might horse around with a few other instruments in there and see what it sounds like. Maybe a trombone?
     
    Bill
    #8
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/23 09:35:12 (permalink)
    Wayfarer
    You've got some of the best music in this forum, and your vocal is getting better all the time. This was the best I've ever heard it. I thought the horns were very convincing most of the time. The only thing I might reconsider is that Accordion solo at 2:41. It was a good solo, but I'm not sure an accordion is a good fit with the other instrumentation you've got going on. If that was a midi track, you might horse around with a few other instruments in there and see what it sounds like. Maybe a trombone?
     
    Bill


    Thanks Bill.  The "accordion" is supposed to be a tenor sax duet, but I can see how it could be mistaken for an accordion.  The vocals I used my "soul voice".  It's something I've used in a handful of my tunes.  Got the idea from Billy Joel.
    JB
    post edited by Johnbee58 - 2018/10/23 11:55:31

    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #9
    Lynn
    Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6112
    • Joined: 2003/11/12 18:36:16
    • Location: Kansas City, MO
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/10/31 18:57:44 (permalink)
    John, your music is increasingly becoming more sophisticated all the time as you learn the ins and outs of digital recording.  I hear, maybe, a little Chicago influence as well as SD.  Your voice fits the words very well, making this a pleasure to listen to.  I've started using Session Horns, which have a pretty good attack and release, but there are many programs that blur the distinction between real and fake.  Any way, your hard work is paying off.

    All the best,
    Lynn

    my songs
    www.soundclick.com/lynnwilson

    www.youtube.com/lywilson
    my videos

    Cakewalk by Bandlab| Sonar Platinum @ 64bits| i7 860 | 8 gigs ram | W10 @ 64 bits | RME FF 400
    #10
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/01 02:39:21 (permalink)
    Lynn
    ......... there are many programs that blur the distinction between real and fake.  Any way, your hard work is paying off.




    If you have the $$$$$$$ to pay for them. Or if you can afford several hundred dollars for a wind controller plus a keyboard controller that can accept them. I have many songs where I use horn & string VSTIs, but I hesitate to post them because I hate to hear the comments that the horns or strings sound fake.  Yeah, it may be obvious but it's like rubbing it in.  What good does it do to point it out?  It only hurts.  Very often they don't comment on the arrangement which I work very hard on.  Just the "the horns sound a bit fake" or "it would be nice if that was a real sax".  It hurts.  I can't do anything about it, so I stopped posting them.
     
    Anyway, Thanks, Lynn!
    JB

    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #11
    emeraldsoul
    Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1836
    • Joined: 2009/01/02 23:16:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/01 03:30:01 (permalink)
    Well the arrangement is a standout, I think most of us agree there. And you have clearly given the horns a lot of attention , and they are so well placed in the arrangement that had you not disclaimed them as "fake" that I probably wouldn't have noticed or cared.
     
    Cool comparisons, the Dan, Chicago, and I'd add early Level 42 but no one really knows them so whatever the hell these days.   :)
     
    If I can venture outside the music and give you an overall song comment? I think in spots, you may have too many words going on. Lyrically it's quite dense with a lot of syllables coming at the listener in a short period of time. I have no real right to critique your word choices, as that's the personal expression of your idea here. But as a listener I was struggling a bit - the music wants to groove, and does! But in spots it's like the words were requiring a lot of attention to parse, and so the grooviness is not supported by the cadence of the lyrics.
     
    For example, in the area :40 to  :55   it's like you are singing a busy horn line. It's a good horn line, though! Also 2:20 - 2:35 ish.
     
    That said, I liked your phrasing in the chorus a lot. The words in this part have a cool wrap-around thing going on
    "You don't have to grieve 
    Love you can get from 
    Me I'm all you need 

    Try to see through me 
    All you mean to me "
     
     
     
    Just .02 from some hack in his mind palace.  :)
     
     
    Again, the arrangement is very creative, you nail the pop-jazz style. Absolutely keep 'em coming! 
     
    cheers,
    -Tom
     
     
     
     

    A work in regress:
    www.studiusinterruptus.com
     
    Cornbread - video   audio
    A Very, Very Troubled Soul - video   
    Kilometers Davis - video   audio
    Mayans (Face in the Crowd) - video  audio
    The Sweet Slow Fade - video
    #12
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/01 09:52:30 (permalink)
    emeraldsoul
     
    If I can venture outside the music and give you an overall song comment? I think in spots, you may have too many words going on. Lyrically it's quite dense with a lot of syllables coming at the listener in a short period of time. I have no real right to critique your word choices, as that's the personal expression of your idea here. But as a listener I was struggling a bit - the music wants to groove, and does! But in spots it's like the words were requiring a lot of attention to parse, and so the grooviness is not supported by the cadence of the lyrics.
     
    For example, in the area :40 to  :55   it's like you are singing a busy horn line. It's a good horn line, though! Also 2:20 - 2:35 ish.
     
     
    Just .02 from some hack in his mind palace.  :)
     
     




    No worries, ES, and thanks for your feedback.  I guess at times I was getting carried away by the groove on those spots.
     
    JB

    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #13
    markno999
    Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1448
    • Joined: 2007/08/27 18:09:30
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/01 15:21:40 (permalink)
    John,
     
    Good song, had a couple listens through and found it very enjoyable.   I wouldn't sweat the "fake horns" a whole lot.    Anyone can buy a sample library, however, not everyone has the ability to write or arrange music.   I think your horn arrangements are really good.    Many people I know do all their arrangements with stock MIDI plug samples because they are much less system intensive, later when done you can always swap them out for something more convincing if necessary.    
     
    If you are worried about it, I am sure there are people here on the forum that would be happy to run your MIDI parts through a hi-end horn sample program so you could hear the difference.   The main thing is you have the arrangement, the expressions, hits, falls, etc.. convincingly programmed and that is the hard part.   
     
    Regards
    #14
    thegaltieribrothers
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 297
    • Joined: 2011/07/28 14:18:38
    • Location: birmingham, united kingdom
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/11 13:41:33 (permalink)
    Level 42, Steely Dan, Billy Joel-esque you're in good company.
     
    I thought the horns sounded good.
     
    Thanks for sharing.
     
    Good Job!
     
    paul
    #15
    dougk1824
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 264
    • Joined: 2017/01/13 11:55:22
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/12 13:47:57 (permalink)
    This is a cool funky tune - I really liked the bass line.  I thought the horns fit well in the mix - made me think of vintage Chicago. Nice job on vocals - really liked that ending.
    #16
    Johnbee58
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 925
    • Joined: 2014/06/21 10:45:53
    • Location: Reading PA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/13 15:04:53 (permalink)
    Mark, Paul & Doug-Thanks so much for taking the time to listen.
     
    John B.

    Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
    NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
     
     "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
    #17
    kevinwal
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1066
    • Joined: 2007/07/27 19:07:43
    • Location: Rogers, AR
    • Status: offline
    Re: Whatever's On Your Mind-Original 2018/11/22 15:44:55 (permalink)
    Nice arrangement, catchy tune with interesting chord changes. Gotta say, I really enjoyed this. I agree with the comment about lyrical density. It's absolutely fine in the verses and in the (really awesome) pre-chorus, but my ear wanted to hear a bit more flowing, less rhythmically complex melody in the chorus to make it stand out and to engage me with a new rhythm dynamic (and to give me a rest!)  Donald Fagan is a master at that kind of thing.
     
    The mix was nice and clean too. I'd probably not pan some of the vocals so hard but that's just me. Great tune!

    Kevin Walsh
    My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen!
     
    EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core
    256GB SSD, 2TB HD
    Windows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03
    MOTU 8Pre Interface
    #18
    Jump to:
    © 2018 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1