Helpful ReplyWhat's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI?

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WallyG
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/05 18:00:51 (permalink)
batsbrew
there doesn't seem to be ANY trouble with studio one and midi............?!


I've looked high and low and I can't find any problems with MIDI in Studio One. In fact, I like it better than Sonar's implementation, especially the way they do Continuous Controller change lanes.
 
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CTStump
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/05 19:22:10 (permalink)
Studio One does support midi plugins, in round about way. I have used the Sonar MIDI plugins and kirnu cream(http://www.kirnuarp.com) but in it's own track.

The way to do it is load the plugin to it's own track(drag it to an open space) then in the track with the instrument you want it control set the input to the track with the plugin track. When you monitor make sure both tracks are active and the keyboard is set on the plugin track and any events are recorded to that track. You can automate both tracks so there is that benefit at least. Kinda like Sonar in reverse two tracks however the MIDi is on both if you make the input set the same.

It's really not too complicated. There is a way of doing a track to accept both the instrument and the plugin but it only works if the plugin is audio such as the old Revalver plugin(which I set up) by creating an instrument track than dropping the plugin on it,removing the instrument than dragging back to browser then dragging it back in on an audio track then Revalver will work.

There are ways to work around the handicaps within Studio One but it would be nice if they come up with a sensible way of doing MIDI plugins.

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anydmusic
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/06 15:35:16 (permalink)
WallyG
batsbrew
there doesn't seem to be ANY trouble with studio one and midi............?!


I've looked high and low and I can't find any problems with MIDI in Studio One. In fact, I like it better than Sonar's implementation, especially the way they do Continuous Controller change lanes.
 
Walt


Glad that it works for you.

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tenfoot
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/06 22:51:59 (permalink)
WallyG
batsbrew
there doesn't seem to be ANY trouble with studio one and midi............?!


I've looked high and low and I can't find any problems with MIDI in Studio One. In fact, I like it better than Sonar's implementation, especially the way they do Continuous Controller change lanes.
 
Walt


It is not that there is anything wrong with what is there. It is functional. It is just that it is not enough for some users. The graphic CC change display is useful for some purposes. For I others, it is a hot, fiddly mess, and a simple midi event list would be a far more effective tool.

Bruce.
 
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igiwigi
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/06 23:35:22 (permalink)
NO SYS EX that is the trouble with Studio 1
tenfoot
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/07 01:52:55 (permalink)
anydmusic
tenfoot
soens
A bit expensive ($149, $249, or $349) if you just want patch name capability, which Sonar already does.
 
I know it does a lot more but I already have a FREE patch/sequence editor for my rig.



...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the idea of this as a replacement for Instrument definitions a bit misleading? For one thing, it seems that this is in fact desgined to streamline the process of setting up definitions (patch name export), not replace it.
 
...


I certainly don't see Midi Quest as a replacement for good instrument definitions, I like that it makes managing them easy in Sonar but the fact that the process is convoluted in Cubase to the point where keeping them updated will require a bit more manual effort is not going to stop me using them and start having Midi Quest active when I don't need to.
 
I use Instrument Definitions to help me quickly find a sound that I can use that is already loaded in one of the modules that I have.
 
I use Midi Quest to edit the sounds and manage what is loaded in the modules.
 
If I have understood correctly Jeff is advocating a different workflow where sound selection is handled outside of the DAW using an Editor accessed by switching programs. Even though using Midi Quest I would only need one Editor that approach would not work for me.
 
I have Midi Quest version  11.0.3 which is the latest and is dated 2013 so a few years since the last update. I would agree that the website looks dated.




 
Makes perfect sense Graham. If they ever have a sale I will give it a run. I guess given that this software is really geared towards older hardware the lack of updates isnt that surprising. If it aint broke....:)
 

Bruce.
 
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CTStump
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/07 02:19:52 (permalink)
igiwigi
NO SYS EX that is the trouble with Studio 1


There is no MIDI in Studio One, in theory it interprets MIDI so messages are treated as a complete and different language and utilized in a way that mimics MIDI. It is also higher resolution than the MIDI Standard in control resolution instead of 0-127 it's 0-65,000+.

Sysex dumps are not interpreted at the moment but are being requested so may happen, may not.

External hardware sound genetator's are becoming less important as Software VSTi's so it may not be at the top of the list of priority's. Not to say it shouldn't be considered but in this day and age it really isn't that high so in my opinion their development resources should be devoted to more needed attention to functionality.

I know I will called out on this by some saying they absolutely can not work without saving a SYSEX dump(Live Sonar users and project studio's, Producer's)with their projects but why not just render the track like any studio would do. They wouldn't keep a SYSEX file in the master just a render unless they have a headsup on a future remix, even then there would be notes of settings including patch info, etc..

I would suggest not using Studio One solely if that is essential to your work and use Sonar as that can accept dumps. Shouldn't be stopping anyone from having both in "This day and age".

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tenfoot
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/07 06:38:57 (permalink)
In this day and age, why do people still assume midi is only used to control synths?
 
Rhetorical question. Software is never improved by defending its limitations.

Bruce.
 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/14 02:18:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/01/14 03:03:06
A powerful editor would easily be a substitute for instrument definitions.  After all you are wanting to select patches and maybe edit them in some way and an editor can do that in spades.  I have several and I am doing that now.  Even though editors are using SYSEX to communicate with the synths they can be used in tandem with Studio One. You can define the same midi ports from Studio One and an editor to the one synth. They will both happily talk to it.
 
I agree though that Quest currently is not an ideal solution for a few reasons.  One is that it is very expensive and what if you only need a few editors instead of the ten thousand they give you for the full price.  And also as some have said here they are not fully up to date with the latest hardware synths either.  Although probably being addressed in the new version to come.
 
They need a different business model because I have say 4 editors or so now and might only need another 3. There needs to be a cheaper way to able to just buy a few of them. 
 
To those who think hardware synths have gone away they are wrong.  2017 was a bumper year for hardware synth releases.
 
And also to those who are concerned about the non musical uses for midi then it is a moot point.  After all it was invented for musical reasons first.  Granted it has been used for other applications and that is great but not a good a good reason to knock a DAW just because to cannot handle another use that only very very very few are needing. Then you get the DAW that can do it.  Simple as that.
 
If Presonus are developing further midi development in Studio One it will be for musical reasons first. That is for sure and rightly so.

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Snehankur
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/14 13:00:57 (permalink)
I am not being able to drive external MIDI instrument.
 
 
I hae a Roland A800 and Yamaha Motif Rack connected to my DAW PC
I have tested with MIDI-OX. I can play the Motif From A800.
In SO3 -I have taken an Instrument Track
Input A800. Output Motif.
MIDI part got recorded from A800 without routing to Motif, thus no sound.
While playback the same.
 
I am not being able to configure, I think.
Any help please.
 
Regards
Snehankur
Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/14 13:39:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Snehankur 2018/02/03 12:32:00
In Studio One you need to create an external instrument e.g. the Motif Rack. It seems you have correctly created a controller device. Have you created an instrument device now which allows you to send to the Motif. The icon has the slider and the two knobs on it. This is an instrument. Not the keyboard icon. That represents a controller sending into Studio One. You now have to set up and instrument to receive data from Studio One. In the SEND TO box you need to assign the Motif rack there.
 
During recording you have to have the input monitoring on i.e. the little blue button on the track header in order to hear it. Having the record button engaged will only record the data but not pass it on to the synth. Playback should be fine though without input monitoring on.
 
I see that you have asked on the Presonus forum as well. That is good.
 
 

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Blades
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/14 14:02:25 (permalink)
A little input here from someone who is working with no external instruments except my drum brain, which happens to be a Pearl Mimic Pro at the moment (coming from Rolad TD-20).  I never found Instrument Definitions to be terribly useful, but only really ever had one "external" synth, which was ironically on a card inside the computer and  used an editor for it, which was WAY better.  In that case, it was XGEdit for an old SW1000XG card and it worked so much better than any of the instrument definitions or Sonar control panels (can't even remember what they were called, but we ugly and clunky at best).
 
All that said, I will truly miss the Cakewalk drum maps.  I used them for every recording for the midi data I recorded from my Drums.  In Studio One (which I am adapting to), there are maps to a degree - you can map the notes to names and a few basic things, but the parts I see most missing are:
 
Notes that have no "length".  Drum notes don't have duration and don't need to be shown as such.
Velocity tags ON the note instead of just in the controller pane at the bottom are very useful for quick and accurate adjustments.
BIG: Limiting the notes shown in the midi view to ONLY those that are mapped is a HUGE help in looking at a drum track rather than having to see all of the in between notes that will never be used/recorded.
 
I didn't really use the IN to OUT mapping to change one note to another to control different sample libraries or instruments, though I'm sure that those were useful to others.
 
I will try to put in a FR over at Presonus, but it doesn't seem likely that I'll get a lot of ground there since there is an overwhelming amount of Sonar Whining over there as it is and I've had issues even getting Sonar folks to adopt the Drum Maps.  I even created tutorial videos on how to use the feature, how to set it up, etc, but lots of people still stuck to the old Split Notes to Tracks CAL, which is far inferior in my opinion.

Blades
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Jeff Evans
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/14 23:27:28 (permalink)
Drum mapping can be achieved using the chorder midi effect. There is a video on it somewhere. Instead of one note triggering a chord, one note can easily also be set to trigger another note.
 
If you have many midi notes in one event it is possible to just highlight say all the kick drums only. They turn to a bright colour while all the others are greyed out. Meaning making it very easy to just edit the kick drums if you want to. 
 
In the Musical functions menu there are options to delete short notes and also delete double notes.  In the delete double notes mode though only one of the doubles is deleted and the other is left behind.  Double notes can happen for a variety of reasons.  The main one being some sort of midi loop being setup and an input note trigger causing a second note at the same time to be recorded.
 

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Blades
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/01/15 02:53:41 (permalink)
Jeff.... Nice workarounds for parts of the drum map concept. Please check out the video on my web site for the way that an older version through current of sonar handles drums maps.

The main things I am looking for are listed above and I found that there is actually already a fr for it asking for similar things with 250 or so votes.

Blades
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Snehankur
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/02/03 12:32:53 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
In Studio One you need to create an external instrument e.g. the Motif Rack. It seems you have correctly created a controller device. Have you created an instrument device now which allows you to send to the Motif. The icon has the slider and the two knobs on it. This is an instrument. Not the keyboard icon. That represents a controller sending into Studio One. You now have to set up and instrument to receive data from Studio One. In the SEND TO box you need to assign the Motif rack there.
 
During recording you have to have the input monitoring on i.e. the little blue button on the track header in order to hear it. Having the record button engaged will only record the data but not pass it on to the synth. Playback should be fine though without input monitoring on.
 
I see that you have asked on the Presonus forum as well. That is good.
 

Thank you Jeff.
Its working fine.
Regards
Snehankur
Craigster91
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Re: What's the Trouble With Studio One and MIDI? 2018/08/01 00:08:09 (permalink)
Amicus717
 
...For what it is worth, though, SO3's midi implementation is an exercise in concise brilliance when compared to Samplitude's. I own Samplitude, and have used it enough to develop a good basic understanding of it, so I figured it might be worth trying as a primary replacement for Sonar. So I've been really digging into the program this week. Tonight, I spent an hour trying to figure out how to set up a multitimbral instance of Kontakt, and I thought at one point I was going to have an aneurism. The GUI designers at Samplitude put extra effort into making the process as unintuitive as possible without actually breaking the software. 
 



Whoah! Here's a TIP worth applying: 
If there is any Samplitude feature you don't know how to use, spend the first 10 minutes searching for and then watching a Kraznet video where he explains how to do it. Then spend the rest of your hour using the feature and enjoying Samplitude (instead of banging your head). 
For Multi-Outs using Kontakt, see this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXQrHfiOpH8
 
And then get back to work!
:^)
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