When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone

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VuL4o
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2013/12/04 04:33:29 (permalink)

When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone

When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone, 
 
I use 1 track for drums 
1 track for guitars on which i use ts808 vst then le 456 engl emulator then poulin lecab 2 add  4 different guitar impulses one eq and reverb and its okay but if i duplicate the track all hell breaks loose .
 
Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 (2.26GHz) 6 gb ram ddr 3 win 7 asio drivers for lexicon lambda external audiointerface.
Intel graphics card HD 8500 or 8700 not sure any advise ?
 
As you know for recording metal i need at least 6 tracks 4 guitars 1 bass 1 drums and 2 vocals .. this is the minimum. If it goes so bad on 3 tracks what do we make of 6 ... please advice me what to do ... im thinking of chaging the pc, but this one must be covering the requirements however this looks simillar to when u wanna play a game that minimum requirements are those and u have them but lets say the game for instance is real time strategy and there is a big battle the videocard and pc are not handling it too good ... does the same principle applies here ? or does it have to do something with my audio drivers
post edited by VuL4o - 2013/12/04 04:43:08
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    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 04:42:30 (permalink)
    As you know for recording metal i need at least 6 tracks 4 guitars 1 bass 1 drums and 2 vocals .. this is the minimum. If it goes so bad on 3 tracks what do we make of 6 ... please advice me what to do ... im thinking of chaging the pc, but this one must be covering the requirements however this looks simillar to when u wanna play a game that minimum requirements are those and u have them but lets say the game for instance is real time strategy and there is a big battle the videocard and pc are not handling it too good ... does the same principle applies here ? or does it have to do something with my audio drivers.
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 04:44:53 (permalink)
    It sounds like you're taxing your CPU. Are your meters high when this happens? Is there any difference if you increase the buffer size/latency?.
    #3
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 04:47:51 (permalink)
    when i open task manager says cpu usage 60 70 percent and above, i think there is a difference because i first tried switching on 64 bits but sounded kind of latenced very slim barely noticeble but after returning to 24 it went ok but still the other issue persists
    #4
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 05:12:08 (permalink)
    Extreme low latency settings will always tax your system more. It really sounds simply as if you're running into the limits of your computer/CPU. The combination of things you're doing (expecting super low latency, using lots of VST FX per track) is designed to make it difficult for your CPU.

    I would suggest, if it's possibly for you, to increase the buffer size/latency and see if that helps. You may have to use some form of direct monitoring to hear yourself during recording though, because playing with a lot of latency isn't very nice.
    #5
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 05:13:43 (permalink)
    I dont think it will help ... if it is simply cpu problem ( as far as i see it ) thats the most reasonable case, i need a new pc :) i guess 
    #6
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 06:08:59 (permalink)
    OR i could use another more stable daw - for instance reaper but ... i already have sonar x 3 producer and i dont want to change it for something else ... 
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 07:44:00 (permalink)
    60-70 % CPU usage tells it all, IMO. That high consumption practically always causes dropouts and such. Amp sims can be especially CPU hungry.
    You need to plan your tracking workflow so that you can freeze tracks or disable some VSTs when recording new tracks.
     
    What you say about 64/24 bits is a little confusing. Your OS and the version of SONAR are 64 bit versions, I assume (?). That is a totally different thing than recording using 16 bit or 24 bit setting. 24 bits is recommendable, and that is not resourcewise a crucial point compared to recording in 16 bits . SONAR handles everything internally in 32 bits as default, IIRC.
    Or are you talking about the 64 bit double precision setting in SONAR?

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    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 09:18:27 (permalink)
    So in other words i need to boost my CPU speed somehow or get a new machine ... because disabling and enabling tracks ill loose where I'm at or what am I singing/playing nd stuff
    #9
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 09:31:58 (permalink)
    Before you go throwing money away, take some time and try and find out exactly what the problem is, thne you can formulate a plan for solving it.
     
    What are your buffer settings?
    What driver are you using, and have you updated it recently?
    What is the reported round trip latency?
    What happens if you bypass all of your Fx plugs (hit 'E'). If it's ok when doing this then all you need to do is a bit of pre-planning.
    Get all you tracking done & finished before inserting any Fx plugs at the lowest latency you can mange. Then you can jack your latency up when mixing because at that stage, it really doesn't matter if your latency is 2ms or 200ms

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 09:34:43 (permalink)
    VuL4o
    So in other words i need to boost my CPU speed somehow or get a new machine ... because disabling and enabling tracks ill loose where I'm at or what am I singing/playing nd stuff




    You don't lose anything. Read the manual about freezing/bouncing etc. Your machine can run loads of audio tracks, it's some of the VSTs that are the problem. Then, when you get in the mixing stage, you can raise the buffers and use heavier VSTs when latency is no longer an issue.
    Also, you can for example disable EQs and reverbs of recorded tracks, or use lighter versions etc. 
     
    I have a weaker PC than yours, and I can build 40 track projects (50/50 audio and MIDI) without problems.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/04 10:35:48 (permalink)
    I agree. Freezing tracks/fx and finding ways to work with higher latency settings can make a HUGE difference. Also, looking back to your first post, it is not usually recommended to keep a reverb plugin as an insert on each track individually. Reverbs can be very cpu hungry. Specific cases aside, you put a 100 percent wet reverb on a buss and create a send to that buss from each channel you need reverb on. While you may still end up with multiple reverbs (I usually have at least three) this should still save you a lot of cpu versus putting a reverb on each track. Not to mention it will probably help the sound of your mix.
    #12
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/05 05:42:04 (permalink)
    Well how am i soposed to play what i want to play if i dont use the effects at real time i cant really understand what will be at the end ( that is for bypass vst ) as for latency and buffering i cannot afford to have latency because some of the stuff cannot be played at that kind of latency for instance at 180 tempo when u play alternate picking from 6 tones ull get 3 or 4 max with latency , but i have another thing in mind ... i am having an valve amp build for me and have a friend that hase the same thing and the only thing he does ( he has all his effects from the outside ) he imputs and records the signal ... so no vsts no **** ... so i Think that if i do that everything should be fine right ? But the thing is the way im working i will travel and i need a laptop that will do this for me ... or at least a pc ... can you please advise fome kind of machine that will do the work for 10 12 tracks no more than that 
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    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/05 05:45:48 (permalink)
    Have another idea - to use cakewalk features on reaper ( but i cannot imput pro channel or tape emulator or stuff ... ) i have both , already have paid for the producer edition ... i feel totally screwed  :D 
     
    #14
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/05 07:21:03 (permalink)
    Okey soo i did Ive log on to reaper ive put 1 channel ez drummer 2 channel guitar  vst ts 808+le 465 (fireball simulator) + le cab 2 on which i add 4 different sounds + reverb + eq  for now seems then i duplicate this track .. when i play them at the same real time bugging its ass off , turn of one record the other and play a solo on it its ok ... then i put a 3rd track again all hell breaks loose i remove couple of the features on the 3rd track and leave it just on ts808 vst ,,, barely standing with 80 % dropout on sonar it would have been on the second track ... sooo what now to play with the latency buffering fast /safe ? 
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/05 12:07:04 (permalink)
    I hate to tell you, but you simply can't get what you want - super low latency and a ton of VSTs on your tracks - especially on your recording track. In that case, yes, you do need a new system, and while it will help a lot it will be easy to tax that too if you keep stacking VSTs. How about using a simple Overloud TH2 preset for your recording track, and switching to your custom fx chain later during mixdown, when you can affors higher latencies and frozen tracks. Also try freezing AD once you've set it up.
    #16
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 06:18:14 (permalink)
    Okey im already thinking of buying new pc not laptop could you tell me what type of parameters do i need to work good towards great not just to start up the program
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 06:33:30 (permalink)
    You have 3 options:
     
    1. Build one yourself, to your specifications (cheapest solution)
    2. Buy an off the shelf machine (more expensive)
    3. Use one of the many specialist DAW builders, 2 of which frequent this site (most expensive option)
     
    Give us some idea of budget and intended use. i.e. is it just you recording yourself, or do you want to record whole bands/drum kits etc

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    #18
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 08:35:29 (permalink)
    VuL4o
    Well how am i soposed to play what i want to play if i dont use the effects at real time i cant really understand what will be at the end ( that is for bypass vst ) as for latency and buffering i cannot afford to have latency because some of the stuff cannot be played ....... 




    Don't get stuck in the bypassing, freezing and bouncing are much more relevant, and they're mentioned in several posts already.
    And you don't need to bypass, say, the amp sim you're recording, but some other FX on the other tracks. You don't need a convolution reverb or a linear phase EQ on a monitored accompanying track.
     
    Whatever system you build for yourself, you can crash it with overload if you don't learn the basics of how to use them.

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    chuckebaby
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 08:57:00 (permalink)
    freezing doesn't bypass anything, it just freezes all movements to that channel EG; you cant make adjustments to vst's, exc.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 13:38:42 (permalink)
    That's very true for track freezes, but freezing the synth removes the synth from RAM and prevents all CPU calls to it. Could be important for heavy duty synths - Kontakt, BFD, Omnisphere etc

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    John
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/06 17:51:15 (permalink)
    A different approach may be in order. Try using a mic recording your amp and use a stomp box with DSP.  

    Best
    John
    #22
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/08 12:08:39 (permalink)
    Guys like i said i have already tried bypaasing the effects on the second track on first track im playing guitar plus 1 pedal vst 1 vst amp 1 vst cabinet with 4 impulses and 1 reverb and eq when i build the second track 1 VST IS AS FAR as i go witbout lagg ... i want to record myself for now ... after time when i have the money to build a studio it will be different thing my price top is 450 Us but im in Bulgaria prices are different here however i am orientated in bying a pc not laptop couse its always better alreasy have a 40 monitor as foe using mike i can do that but my amp is not ready yet ... Just give me if possible please pc parameters for good to great performance that will be great for now and i will keep trying bypass
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/08 12:30:25 (permalink)
    1. A good low latency soundcard with ASIO drivers and a high Z input for your guitar.
    2. The Intel 3770 quadcore I7 is at a very sweet value for money spot - great performance and not ridiculously expensive.
    3. Get a 64 bit OS and at least 8GB of RAM, if possible do it so you have two RAM slots free for later upgrades.
    4. A dedicated SSD of about 120 GB for your OS and host DAW is nice as it will really speed up boot time and system responsiveness. It's not exactly required though.
    5. Get at least a 7200RPM HD for audio recordings and sample collections etc. Much better would be to get one regular HD dedicated for audio recording and another drive (SSD) for your sample collections and VSTs.
    6. Video cards don't really matter that much but don't crap out with the very cheapest. Dual outputs are almost standard but you can also get triple if you like. As a rule of thumb, NVidia based cards run a little cooler than ATI ones, which means less noise from any cooling and longer component life.
    #24
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/08 15:06:14 (permalink)
    VuL4o
    Guys like i said i have already tried bypaasing the effects on the second track on first track im playing guitar plus 1 pedal vst 1 vst amp 1 vst cabinet with 4 impulses and 1 reverb and eq when i build the second track 1 VST IS AS FAR as i go witbout lagg ... i want to record myself for now ...

     
     Did you try freezing or bouncing? You've only mentioned trying bypassing. OTOH, if you have only two tracks, first with FX disabled, your PC should be able to handle it.
     
    Also there are VSTs that can be very problematic on some systems. My system, for example, can't tolerate Melda Harmonizer at all. Are you perhaps using Perfect Space as the reverb? That alone could be the problem. You shouldn't use it when tracking, if you're short of horse power. Also, I don't know if it's "normal" to use 4 cabinet impulses at the same time (I did not know it's possible).
     
    Then again, do you bypass clicking the bypass button in the VST? AFAIK that doesn't free any RAM, you need to bypass the FX bin (I'm not 100% sure I remember this correctly).

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    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/08 15:46:53 (permalink)
    I use 4 cabs for guitar i plan on using 2 at left and 2 right for fuller sound but even if that is the case i must add bass drums and 2 for vocals and if i only add one more it crashes i use all sonar plug ins bit on both sonar and reaper same thing i think i need atleast i5 processor
    #26
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/08 17:17:47 (permalink)
    I said this before, but why can't you use a simpler setup during tracking, e.g. a simple Guitar Rig or TH2 preset that sounds somewhat close to what you need, then switch to the big chain and click freeze.
    #27
    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/09 02:35:36 (permalink)
    Because guitar rig and amplitube are heavyer than simple amps sounf bad and are slower and more latenced and i know how to bypass not sure if i know about freeze is there an article about freezing and if i push freeze what happens to the frezed channel is it muted
    #28
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/09 03:30:19 (permalink)
    VuL4o
    not sure if i know about freeze is there an article about freezing and if i push freeze what happens to the frezed channel is it muted



    No need for special articles, just study the manual and tutorials.

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    VuL4o
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    Re: When I load Addictive drums or EZ drummer + several vsts - starts cutting the tone 2013/12/09 07:28:49 (permalink)
    As far as i see bouncing es realtime mixing but muting the original tracks and adding 1 new track with the mixed so far product and you continue to work on top of it with additional tracks, i used to do the same thing have drum and guitars or bass mixed then add few more instruments ,,, but isnt that incorrect to the entire mix ?
    #30
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