When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart?

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redbarchetta
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2013/03/20 22:52:36 (permalink)

When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart?

So, i was just playing around with Superior Drummer. Rather than having it create individual tracks for each piece of the kit, I just had it make one midi track.  After playing around for 15 minutes or so I've come up with a cool groove that I like, but want to edit the snare drum and what not... Is it too late to go back and break it apart now and have each piece on it's own track?


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23 Replies Related Threads

    noynekker
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 22:58:54 (permalink)
    You can edit / select individual drum pieces in PRV, if you have it mapped.
    Also you can run (process) CAL program "Split Note to Tracks" to put each midi note on a different track for editing.

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    #2
    bluzdog
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:03:36 (permalink)
    Split notes to tracks .cal will  make a track for each individual note ( kit piece ). Check this out: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013155

    Rocky
    #3
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:05:05 (permalink)
    Sweet, thanks guys! 


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    #4
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:21:43 (permalink)
    Hmm... not as easy as I thought it would be...  Right now, I only have one track, it's a simple audio track... It has both the midi data and the audio data.  The cal script wants me to give some input 

    1) Source track ... easy enough
    2) First destination track... I told it track 2, however there is no track 2.  So, do I need to create a bunch of empty tracks? If so, what type?
    3) Destination Channel.  It defaults to 0.  I'm not sure what I should put here. I'm not using a midi device, just Superior Drummer
    4) Destination port. It defaults to 1.  Again, not sure what to put here.

    I click on the ok button again, it starts to churn then I get an error prompt saying   The following tracks can not be routed to: Split Note A1 Would you like to continue. I took a chance and said yes, but and all that did was totally mess up my sweet groove I had going on.


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    #5
    bluzdog
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:24:50 (permalink)
    Just pick a first destination track that does not exist. Cal will create all the tracks it needs.

    Rocky
    #6
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:28:03 (permalink)
    Thats what I did.  It ripped it apart and tore it to shreds... Tried to play it back and it sounds nothing like it did. I need a hug. 

    Is there a chance the CAL script needs to be updated?  It was not in the location where you guys said it would be. it's not under edit anymore, it's under the Process menu now.  This leads me to wonder if the script might be out dated???


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    #7
    noynekker
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:33:05 (permalink)
     . . . might have to Right click on track, then click "split instrument track" to separate the midi and audio.
    (you can always use "make instrument track" to get back to simple instrument track.)

    Destination channel is the desired midi channel.
    Destination port . . . depends on you midi device (how many midi ports do you have, if in doubt . . . try port 1)

    ... hopefully you didn't save over it lose your sweet groove

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    #8
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:34:34 (permalink)
    Ok, I will see if I can put humpty dumpty back together... BTW, I opened up the cal script... It's been around for a while... Here are the comments at the top.



    ;
    ; Split Note to Tracks.cal
    ;
    ; This routine modifies a source track, splitting it by note# into 
    ; separate destination tracks. Only notes are split ... all other 
    ; track parameters (Controllers, Tempos, Meters and Markers), 
    ; if any, remain in the source track.
    ;
    ; Use this routine for splitting up a drum machine or other type 
    ; of instrument track where voices are assigned by note number.
    ;
    ; = Courtesy Red Nile Productions 1993 (714)498-7515 CIS:70044,2733
    ;
    ; = Modified 12/10/93 by Greg Hendershott at user's request to
    ;   have this display notes as names (like C#5) rather than numbers
    ;   in the track names.  Caveat: The note names always use sharps
    ;   and assume BaseOctave=0.



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    #9
    bluzdog
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:41:41 (permalink)
    Cal has been around at least since Sonar 1, probably longer. To be honest I haven't used it in a long time. I remember it being easy and working like a charm. I hope you get it worked out.

    Rocky
    #10
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:44:50 (permalink)
    Oh well... No biggie.  I should easily be able to recreate it.
    I just need to remember which clips I chose.

    I will say this though, it's peaked my interest in learning CAL.  I've seen one small page about CAL, but it had basically NO information at all about it.  


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    RobertB
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:47:29 (permalink)
    Unless X2 is very different, it will only create one MIDI source track anyway. You can insert a synth such as SD with multiple outputs, but that's not the same thing.
    You can split the drums out to different MIDI tracks if you want, but for me, it's better to have all of the drums in one MIDI track. It's much easier to see how the notes relate to each other and make timing/velocity adjustments in one track.
    But it's good to explore your options, and if you find that a particular approach works for you, by all means, run with it.

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    #12
    bluzdog
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/20 23:47:29 (permalink)
    noynekker


    You can edit / select individual drum pieces in PRV, if you have it mapped.
    Also you can run (process) CAL program "Split Note to Tracks" to put each midi note on a different track for editing.

    Like Noynekker said........You don't really need to split the notes to edit them in the Piano Roll View. In fact it may be easier to keep the midi file all together.
     
    Rocky
    #13
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 00:01:02 (permalink)
    Well, my goal was to do some EQ and compression on the individual pieces. In hindsight I should have just used Superior Drummers mixer for that. But hey, I wanted to play in Sonar. 


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    RobertB
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 00:13:13 (permalink)
    OK. That's the audio side, not MIDI.
    Don't use Simple Instrument Track.
    Instead, insert SD with MIDI Source Track and All Synth Audio Outputs.
    Within the SD mixer, you can direct each drum to a specific output . Each output will have its own audio track.
    Insert your effects in the FX bin of the audio track(or send to a bus with the effect in place).
    What you are wanting to do is basically the point of multiple outputs.


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    noynekker
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 00:25:19 (permalink)
    Midi would be useful for adjusting velocities, and timing / groove . . .
    but since you're wanting to work with tracks that only need EQ and Compression . . .
    like RobertB says - this can best be done in audio, with effects plugins, and mapping each kit piece to individual tracks.

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    Kev999
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 00:28:01 (permalink)
    I agree with RobertB.  You need to route the different drums to different outputs within Superior Drummer and these outputs to separate tracks in Sonar.  I've never used Superior Drummer so I can't offer precise details.

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    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 00:47:59 (permalink)
    Thanks again guys... I'm still getting my feet wet on how to get MIDI drums setup properly in Sonar. 


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    chuckebaby
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 01:19:24 (permalink)
    rush man,I got 2 videos on setting up sonar, there in my sig.
    the "triggering session drummer with a drum machine" video is aimed directly at this.

    you might have been able to go in to the synth rack and changed the properties from stereo source to all synth outputs stereo.

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    #19
    redbarchetta
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 01:49:52 (permalink)
    Now u tell me.  I'll watch them tomorrow


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    Jones Studio
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 09:49:30 (permalink)
    I recommend 'Toontrack SOLO' "it's free" and you can add the midi file and have just kick (or any individual part) or combo such as kick and hi hat or kick hi hat and toms...you can refine your drums as well. http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=25
    #21
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 11:24:58 (permalink)
    I use Battery 3 for my default drum synth, but the principles should apply to any drum synth.

    What I did was to create several custom kits, where I started with whatever particular kit sounds worked for the given project.  So, I would open whatever kit was going to be my base kit for the project, but I would choose the Battery 3 version with all of the available outputs - 32 of them.  

    Then, for each drum cell I was planning to use, I set the output channels so that each drum cell output to a different output channel.  I then saved the kit with an indication that it had multiple outs in the naming of it.

    Them in Sonar, I created a special project template where I created a Track Folder for Drums, and within that track folder I had a single midi track for all drum midi data, and then inserted a bunch of audio tracks, one for each drum cell from the custom kit I had created.  

    After naming each of the audio tracks for the corresponding drum kit cell, I saved the project as a template, so that I could start new projects for this particular drum kit and have all of the above all preset for instant access to all of the settings and track-routing.  I also did some basic level settings for the kit as a whole prior to creating the project template.

    Using the above approach, I capture all midi data in one track, which can still be easily edited, and then I have each drum/cymbal routed to its own audio track.  This gives me complete control over each and every kit piece, for effects and levels, and I have no issues in editing the midi data either.

    Please note that Cakewalk intends that you should NOT use a drum map to create midi clips using the Step Sequencer.  If you try to do it, you will have many problems trying to go back and do editing, so just do not se drum maps with Step Sequencer.  I created a little mapping of my custom drum kits that lists the note numbers for each of the kit pieces, and that makes data entry and editing easy - I just look up the proper note number for whatever drums a particular midi clip wll use.

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    robert_e_bone
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 11:27:19 (permalink)
    redbarchetta


    Oh well... No biggie.  I should easily be able to recreate it.
    I just need to remember which clips I chose.

    I will say this though, it's peaked my interest in learning CAL.  I've seen one small page about CAL, but it had basically NO information at all about it.  

    I recently had the same notion to look into CAL.  To the best of my knowledge, it is no longer supported, as far as creating new scripts.  They do still run the older ones, but it is not worth looking into at this point, in my opinion.


    Bob Bone



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    #23
    bluzdog
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    Re:When inserting a midi drum track, is it to late to break it apart? 2013/03/21 22:48:50 (permalink)
    Can't you get SD to route it's outputs to seperate tracks? Then you can use audio tracks to adjust the individual  components to taste. I think you do it when you load the VSTi, select multiple outs instead of stereo. I don't have Superior so I can't check it out. It works that way with Addictive Drums. Just trying to throw out some ideas.

    Rocky
    #24
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