Lunatique
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When will the envelop selection get fixed?
I hate to always be complaining, but this is another issue I have been bringing up since several versions ago, and it's still not fixed.
I work with envelops extensively since I add MIDI expression data with them, as well as automate volume and other stuff. The problem is that how envelop selection of node and curves are really, really clumsy. It's very easy to select the wrong thing, or end up selecting all the nodes when you only want to select one, or selecting the clip instead of a curve, and so on. Maybe there's a way to execute these moves accurately and reliably every time, but I've been using Sonar since version 2 and it's still problematic even now after all these years, and I use envelops heavily on every project.
Can we please work on this problem and get it fixed once and for all? One idea I have is simply to have toggle buttons where if I toggle one button, it'll completely ignore everything but the envelop, so that I don't accidentally select a clip instead of the envelop. Then, another toggle button allows me to NEVER accidentally select more than one node at a time, unless I'm holding down the CTRL or SHIFT button.
If this is already possible (or other workarounds), then please tell me and I'll apologize, but really, this is one of the most frustrating things about working in Sonar, and it's right up there with the lack of easy pianoroll navigation I mentioned previously in another thread.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 07:30:46
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You can try the Envelope tool which only selects envelope data. I also find the selection of envelopes and nodes to be annoying and frustrating. One thing I do that makes it easier is that I always lock the "position" of clips before I do a lot of envelope work.. that way I can not inadvertently move the clip. This is a perennial complaint about SONAR. Anyone who has used envelopes and nodes in other program seems to immediately recognize how clumsy the process is in SONAR. Furthermore I think this symptom is evident when you use any of the clip edit tools as well. The "hot map" or "target" areas that activate the tools like "slip edit" or "fade in" are tiny... so even if you know where to place your cursor to activate the smart tool it acts dumb until you get it in just the right place. I hope the new smart tool is smarter than the old smart tool. Maybe they fixed all this with the skylight™ upgrade? best regards, mike edit spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/11/16 07:57:26
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 07:52:21
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It's all much better in X1. There is no accidentally selecting the clip, etc.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 07:56:18
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YEAH!!!!
Group Hug!!!!
Thank you Brandon!!!
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SongCraft
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 08:08:22
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Jose7822
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 08:13:32
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Awesome Brandon!
This is one area with MUCH needed improvement. Can't wait to try the Smart Tools myself :-)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 08:36:00
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This is good news indeed!!!
No news on pricing from Digital Village yet though :-(
All the XI packages are marked as TBA
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bitman
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 09:23:59
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That's worth the $99.00
Excellent news.
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John T
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 09:34:10
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Bristol_Jonesey
This is good news indeed!!!
No news on pricing from Digital Village yet though :-(
All the XI packages are marked as TBA
Other UK retailers are all around 375 for the full thing, and 89 for the 8.5 Producer to X1 Producer upgrade.
post edited by John T - 2010/11/16 09:35:36
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AT
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 09:48:48
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Excellent, Brandon. Nice to know you bakers are listening, even if you don't fix every little thing I needed done yesterday. ;-)
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Lunatique
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 10:06:48
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Me = Stunned.
Thank you Cakewalk. This is one of the best news I've heard about Sonar in a very long time. Now if we could only get that easy navigation in pianoroll I posted about in the other thread, Sonar would be just about PERFECT. The other minor little things I could totally overlook if I could only have accurate envelop selection and easy pianoroll navigation.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 10:41:10
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John T
Bristol_Jonesey
This is good news indeed!!!
No news on pricing from Digital Village yet though :-(
All the XI packages are marked as TBA
Other UK retailers are all around 375 for the full thing, and 89 for the 8.5 Producer to X1 Producer upgrade.
Oh... thanks John. I've always used DV in the past - wonder why they're so slow in announcing prices?
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Jason Gray
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 10:51:50
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Me also happy with this Improvement i got fed up , with selecting the clip in stead of automation or trying to home in on one Specific piece of automation on a busy/automated track section. And + 1 On your other thread lunatique, Just hope automation Drawing tools and Moving /copying will be Simplified and improved on, In the future. Sonar is so near In terms of being an unbeatable DAW.
post edited by Subjacent - 2010/11/16 10:52:56
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Jose7822
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 11:24:22
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What about envelope layers, do we have those in X1? :-)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 11:25:48
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Bristol_Jonesey
John T
Bristol_Jonesey
This is good news indeed!!!
No news on pricing from Digital Village yet though :-(
All the XI packages are marked as TBA
Other UK retailers are all around 375 for the full thing, and 89 for the 8.5 Producer to X1 Producer upgrade.
Oh... thanks John.
I've always used DV in the past - wonder why they're so slow in announcing prices?
Looks like I'll be buying from Dolphin.
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 11:27:10
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Jose7822
What about envelope layers, do we have those in X1? :-)
Yes. There will be a video very soon explaining all this. 
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Psalmist35
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 11:34:13
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Jose7822
What about envelope layers, do we have those in X1? :-)
Yes. There will be a video very soon explaining all this.
Awesome! This news alone will most likely convince me to get X1
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A1MixMan
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 12:25:00
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I remember in one of the X1 videos I watched that you could select which piece of information to work on without touching the others. That should make it alot easier to work with. Can't wait for X1. This is just what Sonar needed. Thanks Cake!
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ba_midi
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/16 13:01:36
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Jose7822
What about envelope layers, do we have those in X1? :-)
Yes. There will be a video very soon explaining all this.
Geez, Seth - you're making my heart start to pound! Woo hoo! I don't know if you're willing or can answer this yet-- but if we move a MIDI clip that has automation associated with it on the Audio track, will the automation move with the clip now?
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/11/16 13:04:06
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cmusicmaker
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 05:38:21
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A1MixMan
I remember in one of the X1 videos I watched that you could select which piece of information to work on without touching the others. That should make it alot easier to work with. Can't wait for X1. This is just what Sonar needed. Thanks Cake!
Yes...Robin Kelly goes into more detail on it here. That definitely looks easier than the current 8.5.3 approach :-)
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Lemonboy
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 06:27:10
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cmusicmaker
A1MixMan
I remember in one of the X1 videos I watched that you could select which piece of information to work on without touching the others. That should make it alot easier to work with. Can't wait for X1. This is just what Sonar needed. Thanks Cake!
Yes...Robin Kelly goes into more detail on it here. That definitely looks easier than the current 8.5.3 approach :-)
Yes I think that looks like a huge improvement, you only need two or more envelopes on a track in 8.5 and things aren't so hot. Also Mike's tip about locking the position of the clip is a good one (Although i always forget to unlock it after!) Andy
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 07:08:24
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Bristol_Jonesey
John T
Bristol_Jonesey
This is good news indeed!!!
No news on pricing from Digital Village yet though :-(
All the XI packages are marked as TBA
Other UK retailers are all around 375 for the full thing, and 89 for the 8.5 Producer to X1 Producer upgrade.
Oh... thanks John.
I've always used DV in the past - wonder why they're so slow in announcing prices?
Yes, I've just called them, and they cant even say if they are going to have boxed versions in on the launch day? Their website says call for details too ! Shows how unimportant Sonar X1 is to them in the big scheme perhaps. There was I willing to place a pre-order and collect myself on the launch day. No way if they can't tell me when they are going to actually have it in.....
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 07:11:59
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"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 07:27:52
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Hi Brandon, I will do that, great suggestion, many thanks. DV should be one of your major partners to market in the UK, I was disappointed with the lack of customer information so close to the launch, perhaps you can pass on the info to your sales and marketing colleagues as I am sure they would want to know. "Call DV for info" OK, then "Sorry, no info" is not going to cut it in this competitive world, I'll call Roland UK as you suggest but right now like Bristol Jonesey my order is likely going to the guys at Dolphin up in Liverpool even if I have to pay and wait a day or so for delivery. Cheers Garry EDIT: To bring the thread back on-topic, the smart tools and the promise of more efficient envelope editing has swung an early upgrade for me too
post edited by The Kiosk Project - 2010/11/18 07:31:42
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Jose7822
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:34:27
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Jose7822
What about envelope layers, do we have those in X1? :-)
Yes. There will be a video very soon explaining all this.
Wow!!! I honestly didn't expect you to say "Yes" to this, given we haven't gotten any clues of it in the videos we've seen so far. But this is REALLY great news Seth. Can't wait to see the video now :-) Thanks!
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:41:09
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Jose,
To be clear, there are no automation lanes if that's what you are referring to (I'm not sure), but there are much more easily managed layers of envelopes in X1.
You can see a brief example in the sticky Keyboard Mag interview demo post up top.
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Jose7822
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:51:21
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Brandon,
Thanks for responding. Yes, Automation Lanes is what I was referring to (sorry I wasn't very specific). But maybe the approach you've implemented in X1 does something similar to make editing envelopes easier. Still looking forward to try it out myself, though I still think you guys should implement envelope lanes since it enables to see all of them at once instead of having to filter through them. This is just an assumption since I haven't gotten a chance to see the videos you're talking about (and they seemed to be currently unavailable). I'm still very excited about X1 and am looking forward to play with it. Keep up the good work!
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:55:04
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Jose7822
This is just an assumption since I haven't gotten a chance to see the videos you're talking about (and they seemed to be currently unavailable). I'm still very excited about X1 and am looking forward to play with it. Keep up the good work!
Hi Jose, I just checked and the videos are playing fine for me. Using FF btw.
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Jose7822
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:58:47
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Yeap, you're right. It is working with FF. For some reason it says the video is unavailable when using IE, weird.
Thanks, I'll check 'em out now :-)
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benstat
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Re:When will the envelop selection get fixed?
2010/11/18 08:58:57
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
Jose7822
This is just an assumption since I haven't gotten a chance to see the videos you're talking about (and they seemed to be currently unavailable). I'm still very excited about X1 and am looking forward to play with it. Keep up the good work!
Hi Jose,
I just checked and the videos are playing fine for me. Using FF btw.
I had that problem (it says something like the videos are currently unavailable), but there is a link on the same page which says 'CLICK HERE'. Click that and a new browser window pops up with the video in it.
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