Which DAW has Adobe Illustrator-like envelopes for modulation?

Maybe an odd question in the Sonar X1 forum,  but er... afaik Sonar won't...

1. let you edit modulation with envelopes (?) and...

2. even if it did, the envlopes aren't easy to edit, not as easy... as you can edit lines in Illustrator!

I am totally sick and tired of drawing and editing modulation data in the controller pane of the piano roll of Sonar 8.5. I never liked it and never will. It's too clumsy, not exact enough, etc. etc. I wonder if X1 has better options for that. If not, I'd like to know if there is a DAW that lets you edit modulation data with ease and very precise. I've like to be able to use curves and so and (VERY IMPORTANT) to simply drag a certain part of the modulation up or down (which afaik can't be done in Sonar 8.5). If something isn't quite right I have to redraw an entire curve... I want to be able to drag a curve like you can in Illustrator.

I am moving towards orchestral music (bought Albion, amongst others) and immediately I get sick and tired of the way I have to edit the modulation data. So please tell me there is a better way to do this (in 8.5 or X1) or tell me which DAW I should use for that...

EDIT
I suddenly wondered if something like Sibelius might be easier for creating orchestral music...? I never write down music, but I certainly can. I wonder if you can enter information for soft and crescendo and so on in Sibelius... but then VERY exact, as if you are entering modulation data...? Are there any alternatives?

You can do that in Sonar. Right click, select Envelopes - MIDI - Modulation. Voilà.

If you need predefined curves, you can select some by right-clicking on the envelope between 2 nodes.

Ableton Live!

there's (IMHO) no bettter DAW for drawing automation envelopes, audio-warping, MIDI-mapping, MIDI and AUDIO routing....
Very flexible, very modular, very simple, fast, reliable and very wise... despite "Prochannel" you can do almost everything you can do in Sonar, if not using included tools, EFX and synths - just adding only FEW external VST plugins.

There's many things Sonar developers should learn from Ableton's developers.

1. Yes, you can add Modulation data via an envelope. Via the Edit Filter Control, choose Automation > MIDI. In the dialog, choose Control for the Type and 1-Modulation for the Value.

2. Yes, you can draw envelopes freely. Just select the Draw Freehand tool. Then you can literally draw in any envelope shape that you want. SONAR also provides a number of predefined shapes via the same draw tool... like Sine, Triangle, Square, etc.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
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Bummer... stupid me. I tried creating a modulation envelope and it works indeed...! Didn't try that Freehand option yet (I read that after giving the envelope a try). (Sines, triangles, etc. are only in X1, right?) 

I tried an envelope on brass and using envelopes is a LOT easier when it comes to creating for instance swells and finding the right ending volume: in the piano roll you had to redraw and redraw and redraw all controllers again and quite often the 'curve' wasn't smooth at all, but with envelopes you just make a slow curve and pull up the node at the end of the swell. Awesome. You can also very easily drag everything up and down. Nice. Complete control and very precise. 
I also maximize the track lane I am working on and enable the piano roll mode in the track window: I never used Sonar in this way before! Almost feels I am working in a new program. ;) 

Is it possible to RECORD and envelope or convert the piano roll data into an envelope? Obviously I do record modulation data (I use the modwheel while playing and recording, but the data usually is quite raw and still needs editing) but that data only shows up in the piano roll and not as envelopes, so that would mean I would have to redraw all that data as an envelope... 

in example - very nice, that Guitar Rig can work in "live" mode, but to use footcontroller, I have to route MIDI to GR - is it possible just when you add GR as a FX plugin? NO!

good to know, thanks - because drawing in Piano roll makes me angry ;)