Helpful ReplyWhich Hard Drive should I use?

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blindguitar
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2011/10/12 17:50:17 (permalink)

Which Hard Drive should I use?

Hello all,
In need of guidance.

I just updated to X1 and even bought a new computer to go with it. My new PC has 2 drives. Should I use the 2nd drive just to store past bundles etc.? Or, would it be better to setup Sonar to write audio to this 2nd drive while recording projects? Would it also be better to load plugins on this 2nd drive?

I am sure several have 1 or more external drives for storage. I am not sure what a typical thing to do is. Would most of you just use the 2nd internal drive for storage or, can the 2nd drive get used in such a way to get better performance while recording?

Thank you all for any help and info as to what is the best thing to do.
#1
Tweakberry
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/12 18:00:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
blindguitar


Or, would it be better to setup Sonar to write audio to this 2nd drive while recording projects?
 
that would be a wise move, here is how i have my drives setup...
 
System (C:) for OS, apps, VST's
Projects (D:) for project files, project audio
Content (E:) for audio samples, SONAR Content folder, Impulse Responses, etc
External USB Drive (B:) for Backups
 
ps... important make sure your 2nd drive is not just another partiton of your OS drive, they need to be
separate physical drives
post edited by Tweakberry - 2011/10/12 18:14:42
#2
NoahRane
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/12 20:05:10 (permalink)
I have my system setup this way:
Internal C: All programs and apps 500gig drive
Internal D: All sound data including samples and project recordings 2tb drive
External E: Backup of D: 2tb drive
External F: Backup of C: 500gig drive
 
You also need to check your backups regularly to make sure they will actually work. There is almost nothing worse than a corrupted backup. Most modern backup software will let you verify your backup data is valid. I actually mirror my drives (rather than use encrypted, compressed backup files), so as I do my work and save, it is automatically backed up. No need to restore from a drive - just swap the external to the internal and get a new external a.s.a.p.
 
Addition: I use OEM drives for external, not the sleek custom Western Digital or Seagate Books. Get a couple of good external drive cases and install your own OEM drives. Stay with the same format as the internal ie 3.5" or 2.5" and same brand and model.
 
If you are going to use just the two internals I would definitely use one as a backup drive! There is software that will mirror the c: drive. If one ever goes belly-up (and one will!) Just switch boot drives in your BIOS (if C: goes bad) and replace that bad drive quickly!
 
Best,
 
post edited by NoahRane - 2011/10/12 20:18:25

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#3
gibsongs
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/12 20:55:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
As the others have said, use the C drive for your operating system and programs and use the other drive for data and samples files. As NoahRane states you might want to consider a additional drives for backups.

As far as backups go, I would strongly suggest a program like Acronis to MIRROR your C (operating system) drive and stow the mirror on an extra drive along with the backups of your data. The mirror of your C drive will allow you to recover from a failure of your C drive (or botched install) in minutes rather than having to reinstall all the programs and licenses again (hours). A "Go Back Machine" if you will.

Drives are cheap these days and I consider it cheap insurance against down time. I have a 500 GB operating system drive and 3 TB drives for data/samples/backups in that order (plus I have an additional external 1TB drive for additional backups if needed.

Also, like NoahRane says - be sure to test those backups before you actually need them!

One last item - be sure to do a backup after you install a new program on your operating system disk (after you know the install is working correctly). A program like Acronis makes the job very easy. Cheap insurance :-)

gs
 
#4
inaheartbeat
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/12 20:59:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I have three drives as you can see from my specs. System and program software on the C drive then separate physical drives for sample data and audio data. Note that samples are not just stuff you record yourself and save for later use as sample clips but the huge libraries that come with software packages like Ivory II, Kontakt, etc. 

If you are going to get an external drive then definitely make sure that it is at least 7200 RPM and that your interface is eSata or USB 3.0. Firewire 800 can work also. Do NOT try to use a USB 2.0 or Firewire 400 attachment to an external drive for audio work. It just won't cut it very well. The external drives sold at places like BestBuy look like a bargain but they are usually 5400 RPM USB 2.0/3.0 drives that are great for backing up photos/videos/documents but totally unsuited to audio streaming.

NoahRane's setup using easily swappable drives is a great idea. Nothing worse than having a corrupted drive and no real way out of it. Backups are just essential and as he said they need to be verified. I have been "that guy" that thought he had legit backups and was sadly misinformed. It is just horrible. Not as horrible as my second marriage but still pretty painful ;-)

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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/12 22:12:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Get a third drive and installit internally for samples, loops etc.-

Main drive all plugs and software-
2nd drive - Sonar projects as per project folders so the project data ison this drive too
3rd drive - loops, samples, audio libraries that correspond to any softsynths (like kontakt or Dimesnion) any other audio that will be streamed besides the recorded audio of the project that is on the second drive


The reason is becaseu then programs and software streams from C, audio of a project streams from the second drive, and samples and loops, library audio, tetc. stream from third drive

This way each drive has much from which to read, keeping them much more free and clear to stream as fast as possible.

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vladasyn
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 00:47:23 (permalink)
[size=3 font="courier new"][size=4 font="times new roman"]It really does not matter. Ya'll taking it was too serious. I do not know what kind of gold you storing on your drives, but Occasional backups are good enough. This coming from a person who had to replace 2 out of 3 hard drives on my $4000 Dell Precision. I have SCSI drives, software and samples on C, graphics on D and recordings on E. I learned it the hard way as I did not believe in a motherboard problems. First I had to replace the memory. Later the drive D went down. Note that SCSI 15.000 rpm are very expensive and hard to find. The D drive was least used drive with graphics, that should of die last, but it went first. Then I had to replace a DVD player. Not long ago a C drive burnt. The only drive I still have from original configuration is the E drives with all the recording. So far. Waiting for it to die any minute- because it can. Why not- 2 of its brothers are already replaced. And few weeks ago the motherboard was diagnosed total. I should of start with replacing it long time ago, when I had memory problems. The bottom line is... there is nothing that is so important. You can always start over. The down side of multiple drives is that when you buy new computer, you need to have same hard drive configuration because Sonar will not be able to open project file if it your clip used to be on E drive and now is on C drive. I am not sure if it will search for it or not- if you have 2 drives, I would always have 2 drives in consequent systems. I store Zeta and Rapture samples on C drive. I experienced many dropouts and every time I use samples, the drive doing “woooo-hooo” sound. It is all good.   
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 01:23:11 (permalink)

Vladasyn, you are way off man. Update to at least a core 2 duo (that is also an out of date chip, but not as ancient as the P4 over hot skeleton in your computer) before giving ANY advice at all, for the good of sonar users.


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webbs hill studio
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 02:01:19 (permalink)
Lanceindastudio


Vladasyn, you are way off man. Update to at least a core 2 duo (that is also an out of date chip, but not as ancient as the P4 over hot skeleton in your computer) before giving ANY advice at all, for the good of sonar users.

OK,now i`m embarrassed about my "free speech in forums" rant-apologies to Bristol-Jonesy- a jerk is a jerk in any language but without any specs it`s hard to judge.
cheers


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vladasyn
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 02:19:06 (permalink)
Dude, time flies. Spent all my savings on that supercomputer- 2004 was just yestarday. All idea was about having top of the line processor- I was not going to replace it every 3 years after I set it up and configure. Doubt much changed between P4 and Core2 or i7. It is a recording computer- you supposed to configure it and it should run for years. Well- the only original parts I have left in it is a chip and audio hard drive. I was not going to buy new computer- if it works- it works- what else do you need from recording DAW. But I can not say- it worked- every time I had to replace something, it would take time to get parts, figure out what happen, configure new parts... I reloaded Windows 3 times on this thing, and had to install all drivers every time... But talking about hard drives... I did not believe when people said- hard drive failed. I learned the hard way. Now that all my stuff on E drive, I would need a computer with 3 drives to mirror this system... But if I get new one- few years later I will have same thing I have now. But seriously- they still make Pentium 4s. And the clock speed never went past 3.8. i7 only go up to 3.46 (reading your specs- I am sure of the top of my head- 2600 i7 is 3.46 quad). And how do you know your Sonar uses all 4 cores? Can you tell?  
#10
LJB
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 02:28:32 (permalink)
I think Vlad is having us all on here.. :O) Hey Vlad, you're kidding with us right? :O)

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webbs hill studio
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 02:46:02 (permalink)
ok-i`ll take the bait-I can record 16 tracks live @24/48 complete with plugins for at least 6 hours constant at average 28% cpu use and under 10% hard drive-who cares how many cores work-overclocking also has it`s drawbacks-in 15 years i have never had a hard drive or component fail-apart  from a mackie fw card and a Hoontech interface,as i regularly upgrade my gear.-I paid us$2600 for my current pc because i can`t afford the problems you persist with-take Lance`s advice and upgrade-hell-even protools LE on a laptop would be better and probably more appropiate for you-I hear it`s idiot proof!
by all means be pissed off with your experience but at least listen to what these "dudes" are saying-dude
    

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 04:08:02 (permalink)
The down side of multiple drives is that when you buy new computer, you need to have same hard drive configuration because Sonar will not be able to open project file if it your clip used to be on E drive and now is on C drive


The problem with spreading such unadulterated garbage as this - trying to pass it off as "advice" is that some people might end up believing and end up compromising their own setups.

It's always been possible in Sonar to state, in Preferences (Previously Options > Global), exactly WHERE your audio files, samples, exports etc all reside within your system.

I'm not sure if you're actually trying to help or are indeed, a 3rd rate troll, but whatever it is, please stop, as somebody might actually take what you're posting as Gospel.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 04:10:36 (permalink)
webbs hill studio



OK,now i`m embarrassed about my "free speech in forums" rant-apologies to Bristol-Jonesy- a jerk is a jerk in any language but without any specs it`s hard to judge.
cheers



No problem my friend. When you get to interact on some of the UK Football forums I frequent, you develop an innate sense of who's trolling and who isn't.

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Beagle
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 08:01:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Tweakberry


blindguitar


Or, would it be better to setup Sonar to write audio to this 2nd drive while recording projects?
 
that would be a wise move, here is how i have my drives setup...
 
System (C:) for OS, apps, VST's
Projects (D:) for project files, project audio
Content (E:) for audio samples, SONAR Content folder, Impulse Responses, etc
External USB Drive (B:) for Backups
 
ps... important make sure your 2nd drive is not just another partiton of your OS drive, they need to be
separate physical drives

This is pretty much the best way to do it.  although I do not discount NoahRane's extra drives for backing up - however, I would not recommend using SAMPLES and PROJECTS on the same drive unless you have no choice.
 
all 3 of the first ones should be internal or eSATA (no difference in performance between internal SATA and eSATA, as opposed to external USB or Firewire). 

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Ham N Egz
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 12:36:23 (permalink)
256 gig SSD for the OS and Apps 1.5 Tb drive for VST Libraries and loops, etc 1.0 Tb drive for Cakewalk audio and projects 1.0Tb "external" (removable from a HD bay in the PC) for Acronis Back Ups Several external USB drives for backups(i am a belt and suspenders guy)

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NoahRane
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 13:21:53 (permalink)
blindguitar


Hello all,
In need of guidance.

I just updated to X1 and even bought a new computer to go with it. My new PC has 2 drives. Should I use the 2nd drive just to store past bundles etc.? Or, would it be better to setup Sonar to write audio to this 2nd drive while recording projects? Would it also be better to load plugins on this 2nd drive?

I am sure several have 1 or more external drives for storage. I am not sure what a typical thing to do is. Would most of you just use the 2nd internal drive for storage or, can the 2nd drive get used in such a way to get better performance while recording?

Thank you all for any help and info as to what is the best thing to do.
Wow! What a thread this turned into!
 
Back to the beginning; blindguitar is asking what to do with the "existing" two drives. I cannot over-emphasize enough - use the second as a backup drive!
 
To my own experience: I have experienced total HD failure, and it is NOT fun! It was caused by a bad power supply and I had no backup. Imagine hundreds of hours of work...just gone! I thought I had a backup (the second internal drive) but as soon as I started booting from that, the psu toasted it as well - all in the same day.
Turned out the PSU failed because of bad power from my home electric. Solved that issue with a power conditioner/battery backup. I have a lot of money tied up just in redundancy.
 
We all try to squeeze as much, or sometimes too much info into some of our posts; it can be a good thing, and it can lead to disagreements. May cooler heads prevail and remember, we are here to help one another and not bring people down.
 
Best to you all!

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#17
stevec
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 14:36:17 (permalink)
If you recorded a song and stored an audio on drive E, and then migrate drive E in to new system and copy/paste folder on drive C of a new computer, when you open the file, you will get a message “ Unable to locate file “Recording 21”

 
Vladasyn, if you're not using the "per-project audio" option... you should.  That way the audio folder for each project is directly below where the CWP is located, meaning the drive letter is irrelevant.   You can take the CWP/sub-folder combination and move it anywhere you'd like.
 
But even if the drive letter were critical, as when using a single folder for all audio, you can simply repoint SONAR to find that folder wherever it exists from the Preferences dialog (someone mentioned that ealier).   And in a worst-case scenario, assuming the audio data is on a non-OS drive (for all the reasons already stated in this thread) you could always use Windows to rename the drive letter to match the previous PC.
 

SteveC
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#18
vladasyn
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 14:46:09 (permalink)
How is the drive letter irrelevent? I do use "per project"- meaning I create Audio folder in individual folder on drive E. I just know that once I unbundle the bundle file and it stored audio somewhere else- it could not just "find" it- it got confused. Also- I use Logic Platinum and not sure if there scanning options in tha program. I started with 3 drives on my first system and now I am afraid to change it. It may be that I don't know much. What you mean by "That way the audio folder for each project is directly below where the CWP is located, meaning the drive letter is irrelevant"? Thank you.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 15:02:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
As advised previously in this thread, the most optimal setup for performance would be:

1) C:\ drive for operating system (OS), audio programs, VST plug ins

2) 2nd separarte drive for projects and audio recordings

3) 3rd separate drive for Samples

If you only have 2 drives, use the 2nd drive for 2) and 3).

Note:

I've not seen many computers that come with a separate 2nd drive, so we are bringing to your attention to make sure your computer has a 2nd separate drive and that it is not just a partition that you are seeing as another drive. Also, all the drives should be 7200rpm speed or faster. Lastly, it's a good idea to have the drive your OS is installed on be at least 250GB in size, and the other drives at least 500GB, or you may find yourself running out of free space faster than you expected. Having a backup drive is also a good idea.


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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 15:17:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
NoahRane


 
Back to the beginning; blindguitar is asking what to do with the "existing" two drives. I cannot over-emphasize enough - use the second as a backup drive! 
  
 
Best to you all!
I'm sorry, but this is another example of what I consider to be "bad advice"
 
If the OP only has 2 drives then he should:
 
1 - set them up so that drive 1 is for the OS, Programs & VST's and drive 2 is for his Cakewalk projects & samples
2 - get an External hard drive for backup purposes.
 
I am NOT downplaying the importance of doing regular, scheduled backups, but if he takes your advice and loads EVERYTHING onto one drive then he's definitely going to run into problems with dropouts and possibly crashes

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Ham N Egz
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 15:49:27 (permalink)
AFA Hard Drives, most new drives are 7200 RPM and even 10k,so just one consideration when streaming the audio and if your sample library streams, 5400 are mostly lappy and cheap HD speeds

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#22
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 15:50:37 (permalink)
wrong thread

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Beagle
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 16:01:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
musicman100


AFA Hard Drives, most new drives are 7200 RPM and even 10k,so just one consideration when streaming the audio and if your sample library streams, 5400 are mostly lappy and cheap HD speeds


except for the "Green" drives.  they are either 5400 or variable speed and they are bad news for DAWs.

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Ham N Egz
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 16:42:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Beagle, I found that out too late in the game.. I have three green drives, one fails the SMART diagnostics the other two are crapola. I was able to upgrade one green to a black one WDs customer loyalty program at a great price. I now purchase Barracuda or Black Cavairs...

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#25
Beagle
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 16:44:11 (permalink)
luckily I had been warned about that before I ever bought one.  they're usually cheap, too, so that makes them lucrative to buy.  but not for a DAW!

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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#26
Ham N Egz
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/13 17:13:11 (permalink)
Well I had the "smart" idea of purchasing one of those WD external 1Tb USB drives, cause they were cheaper than a bare internal drive and opening the case and pulling the drive out (its SATA) and installing it in my PC...... dumb move , WD used green drives in those USB external drives.... Ohhh it worked for a while , and ran cooler than the Black does, but thats about it ...

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#27
wiley
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/14 06:49:16 (permalink)
  A few opts-this decision should be a fx of your tech skills. 2 drives? Coordination of effort is a must. If you are working multiple-large prj, try a RAID bay to run all HDs. 1) DAW specific HD such as a GLYPH or similar. If not too tech oriented-that is likely your best bet. 2) Western Dig -Black Cav HD. Partition off part of each 1 T drive-a good option. 3) My Choice-an SSD for my boot drive. After a year with an Intel SSD in my laptop, I went with one for my DAW. I have a 600 Gig Intel SSD---max size but this will go up-fast and cost will come down. IMO-an SSD is worth each penny. It will defiantly change boot up times and processing is killer fast. I have 2, 1 T WD-Black Cavs in a RAID bay-acts like a server 4 storage.

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Beagle
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/14 06:56:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I disagree with #2  partitioning a drive only serves to "organize" for some, but will cause the hard drive to work harder and slower instead of faster, which you want faster access for both read and write when using your DAW.

and using GLYPH alone doesn't overcome of the benefit of having more than 1 or 2 drives when you're looking at separating your OS/host; samples; projects.

a RAID would only be of benefit if you set it up so that you're doing RAID 1 mirroring.  RAID 0 is counterproductive and a waste of money for a DAW.

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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Tweakberry
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Re:Which Hard Drive should I use? 2011/10/14 07:16:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Beagle


I disagree with #2  partitioning a drive only serves to "organize" for some, but will cause the hard drive to work harder and slower instead of faster, which you want faster access for both read and write when using your DAW. 


yup, 1 physical drive with more than 1 partition will force the read/write head to jump back and forth between the partitions and will actually be slower than a drive with no partitions, as opposed to 2 physical drives which have their own read/write heads

#30
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