Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only?

Author
OldTimerNewComer
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 164
  • Joined: 2011/02/24 14:03:28
  • Status: offline
2015/05/05 04:33:02 (permalink)

Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only?

Sonar has a lot of good plugins, so much so that I have to work very hard to not get pulled away from the
project at hand if not working for a client. I do great paid work but struggle in my personal efforts.
 
After some empirical analysis and honest reckoning I have decided that It would help me if I knew, beyond a general
sense, how others are applying these (Sonar's audio plugins)...
 
That said, main questions in the title... all opinions/tips welcome.
 
Thanks,
Mel

Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. 
Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory  setting.
AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video.
Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). 
Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software).
WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external.
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4.
Windows 10 Pro
Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update
________________________________________
 
Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it.
 
My Stuff:
https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
 
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    John T
    Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6783
    • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 08:17:50 (permalink)
    Hmm. Interesting question.
     
    I think I don't really categorise things this way in my head. Everything is potentially useful for anything.
     
    However, it seems your larger issue is "how to not get distracted and end up tinkering aimlessly". My approach to that is just to keep it basic, for the cast majority of tasks.
     
    Think if you were mixing on a console. You'd have the console EQ, and maybe per-channel dynamics, like on an SSL or whatever. So I have my standard template set up like that. Every channel strip has (in this order) Quadcurve EQ > PC76 U-type Compressor > Console Emulator. Buses are the same, except with the 4k S-type bus compressor instead.
     
    I also have standard reverb bus, with the sonitus reverb on it, and a standard delay buas, with the extremely humble Sony Simple Delay on it.
     
    And that's what the vast majority of the mix work is done with. I only ever add or change when necessary.
     
    For vocal and bass tracks, the compressor almost always gets swapped out for the CA-2A. For reverb, most things won't end up going to the sonitus, as at some point, I'll start to have a more specific idea about the reverb, but that's how everything gets sketched in. The delay will generally also change, or other delays will be added.
     
    Pretty much everything and anything else will only be added when there's a case for it. By the end of a mix, there'll be all sorts on there. But tinkering and experimenting with unknown factors is very rare during a mix. I might allow myself one or two moments of that. Experimenting with new plugins, I generally do in downtime messing with old tracks that are already finished, and now aren't going to change.
     
     
     

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
    Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
    #2
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 11:52:32 (permalink)
    There are definitely some types of plugins that are best deferred until the final mixing stage. Pretty much everything that goes on the master bus, for starters.
     
    Some plugins are very CPU-intensive or introduce large amounts of latency, so they might be deferred just as a practical matter. But if you've got oodles of CPU horsepower and aren't playing virtual instruments in real time, then nothing needs special consideration - except those processors that massage the entire mix.
     
    Compressors, limiters and equalizers on the master should be bypassed until the mix is nearly complete. A great mix will (theoretically) need none of those things, but that ideal can't be met if master bus effects are put in place too soon in the process.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #3
    John T
    Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6783
    • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 12:04:52 (permalink)
    Well, there are two schools of thought on that. Some people like to mix into master bus compression. I don't like to work that way myself, but there are some very good mixers who swear by it.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
    Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
    #4
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 13:33:28 (permalink)
    You're right, of course. Like you, I prefer to hold off on any master bus compression until late in the game.
     
    Often, by the time I reach that point I find that no compression is needed. Consequently, I end up only using a master bus compressor maybe 5% of the time. My favorite mixes are usually the ones that have nothing on the master except a limiter, and it's not actually doing anything.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #5
    ampfixer
    Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5508
    • Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
    • Location: Ontario
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 14:15:31 (permalink)
    From the included plugs, I would say that any of the LP series should be avoided until mixing. The multi band comp seems to be a resource hog. I also leave any kind of limiter for the final mix.
     
    I'm a rookie but I've learned to avoid anything that's looking ahead at the audio stream. One thing I really like about Waves is that they include average latency specs for different sample rates. This makes it easier for me to decide where and when to use the plug. It would be great if everyone published specs like that.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #6
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 14:42:18 (permalink)
    I simply use whatever I want whenever I want during tracking/mixing.
     
    If the latency gets too high for reliable overdubbing, I just bypass all Fx 'E', track, then hit 'E' again.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #7
    OldTimerNewComer
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 164
    • Joined: 2011/02/24 14:03:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 17:46:53 (permalink)
    Thank you all for your replies, some good direction here.
     
    I like the points about latency, look-ahead and CPU load, I will
    incorporate those considerations into my work flow though I think
    my system is still considered adequate if not good for a DAW.
     
    Thanks a Lot,
    Mel

    Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. 
    Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory  setting.
    AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video.
    Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). 
    Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software).
    WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external.
    Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4.
    Windows 10 Pro
    Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update
    ________________________________________
     
    Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it.
     
    My Stuff:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
     
    #8
    ...wicked
    Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7360
    • Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
    • Location: Seattle
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 18:02:52 (permalink)
    Yah, aside from mechanical issues like CPU load I don't really think there are any "musts" involved. You use what you need when you think you need it.
     
    There are plenty of good recipes, and techniques that tend to work well, but for every one you can find plenty of cases where bucking that trend is also appropriate. 
     
    I like to use EQs quite liberally on tracks, almost always subtractive. Getting rid of what you don't need will help clear up space in your mix. I like to use compressors generally on busses, though sometimes a track will need it to alter it's dynamics. I like to leave compressors for the busses to help gel things together and give each subgroup it's defining character and smooth out levels. 
     
    The master chain is its own beast. I have a pretty solid recipe I use of console saturation, tape saturation, final EQ and a limiter. Sometimes I'll stick a compressor in there and mix into it, but like said above, I'm finding more and more I can leave it out and just use the limiter as my "faux mastering". If the project is going to get mastered by someone else I'll just flip it on now and then to see what's happening, if I'm doing it I'll give it it's final boost pretty early so I can tweak tracks into it. A tiny bit of stereo widening at the end (not much at all just a nudge). 
     
    Sometimes I'll use a plug like VX64 on the vocal bus but when it comes to mix I'll dump it and replace it with dedicated plugs for compression, saturation, delay, and eq. The doubler in VX64 is quite good though, often it stays in.
     

    ===========
    The Fog People
    ===========

    Intel i7-4790 
    16GB RAM
    ASUS Z97 
    Roland OctaCapture
    Win10/64   

    SONAR Platinum 64-bit    
    billions VSTs, some of which work    
    #9
    OldTimerNewComer
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 164
    • Joined: 2011/02/24 14:03:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 18:32:59 (permalink)
    I also use eq in a subtractive way, but I have seen situations in recording studios where the engineer would
    pick a narrow Q on a bass track and boost it to hell.
     
    Do any  of you guys use a stereo imager while tracking?
    Does it add a heavy load?
     
    Thanks
    Mel

    Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. 
    Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory  setting.
    AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video.
    Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). 
    Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software).
    WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external.
    Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4.
    Windows 10 Pro
    Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update
    ________________________________________
     
    Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it.
     
    My Stuff:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
     
    #10
    ampfixer
    Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5508
    • Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
    • Location: Ontario
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/05 20:08:03 (permalink)
    Personally, I like to add the Channel Tools plug to the master buss when mixing the final sound. Typically I use the narrow/widen option if I want to enhance the stereo imaging. I've never tried it for tracking and have no idea about its loading. Sorry.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #11
    ...wicked
    Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7360
    • Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
    • Location: Seattle
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which Sonar audio effects do you consider to be Track/Bus/Offline only? 2015/05/06 01:33:52 (permalink)
    OldTimerNewComer
    Do any  of you guys use a stereo imager while tracking?
    Does it add a heavy load?

     
    Not while tracking, usually after the halfway point in a mix I'll turn it and the rest of the Master stuff on. Not a big CPU hog at all I've found.

    ===========
    The Fog People
    ===========

    Intel i7-4790 
    16GB RAM
    ASUS Z97 
    Roland OctaCapture
    Win10/64   

    SONAR Platinum 64-bit    
    billions VSTs, some of which work    
    #12
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1