Starise
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Which Windows 10 ?
There's win 10 OEM, Win 10 home and Win 10 premium. Likely there are others I haven't seen yet.
I think I bought Win7 64 OEM on my last build and had no issues with it. I am leaning heavily toward Win 10 64 bit. Are there disadvantages to buying an OEM OS? I'm not really sure what the other versions offer. For audio work what would you recommend?
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slartabartfast
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 12:51:13
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/06 11:49:06
For one thing your license will not be valid, since the OEM distributions for system builders are limited to new machines made for sale. The "system builder" licensing that first appeared with Windows 8.0, that allowed you to build your own machine and install the software was eliminated subsequently so that the OEM license requirement reverted to the old and present system. Doubtless they will install and activate but if the software police invade your premises... You would not likely be granted activation if you moved it to a computer or installed a new motherboard. Other than that you should be getting the same OS that you buy from one of the lesser assemblers, without the bloatware and special drivers etc. that they can pre-install. "If you are building a system for your personal use or installing an additional operating system in a virtual machine, you will need to purchase a full version of Windows 10, available in FPP. Windows 10, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 system builder software does not permit personal use, and is intended only for preinstallation on customer systems that will be sold to end users.*" https://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/windows-licensing-for-personal-use.aspx#fbid=AOWYaxDTBX1
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 13:57:51
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Yikes...I never knew that. I used OEM on one build when windows was at version 7. I'll check that link and thanks! I'm now at a crossroads as to which non OEM to buy. Maybe that link will help. There's only around a 20.00 difference between Win 10 OEM and Win 10 Home edition. It looks as if Win10 Home is the equivalent of the older "premium" version. This looks like my obvious choice so far. I don't need any of the additions in the pro version. I don't like the fact that updates are automatic though. This could really cause problems if it decides to update while I'm mixing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions
post edited by Starise - 2015/11/05 14:37:06
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fireberd
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 15:11:29
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/06 11:50:04
I have 10 (had it for almost a year in the "Preview" versions). I go off line when I do anything in Sonar as I do not have anything that requires being on-line or at least on-line to the router. Eliminates any potential problem.
If you can find Win 7 or Win 8.1 at reduced price over Win 10, you can then do a "free" upgrade to Win 10 (same version as what the Win 7 or 8.1 is. This may be cheaper.
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ampfixer
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 16:31:13
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GO with Win 10 Pro x64. You get a bit more flexibility with updates.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 18:14:34
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/06 08:08:39
If you custom build your machine and use a copy of Win10x64 OEM, you'll be fine.
Even if you upgrade components in the machine...
I've done that countless times.
Authorization has never been a problem.
One license on one physical machine. Stick to that and you'll be fine.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/05 20:13:03
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Jim Roseberry
If you custom build your machine and use a copy of Win10x64 OEM, you'll be fine.
Even if you upgrade components in the machine...
I've done that countless times.
Authorization has never been a problem.
One license on one physical machine. Stick to that and you'll be fine.
OEM is tied to the motherboard in W10 OEM. They were flexible with W7. Not so sure with W10.
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fireberd
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 06:43:18
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/11 18:20:53
OEM has always been "Legally" licensed for the PC it was installed on, regardless of OS. But its not a problem unless you want to change the motherboard and possibly other hardware like CPU. I have home built PC's with OEM versions and one has been upgraded to Win 10 without problems. Obviously if I changed the hardware on that PC I'll have to spring for a new OS. No different than having a Dell, HP, or whatever brand PC with OEM version, its still only licensed for that PC but able to upgrade to the free Win 10.
Microsoft has been iffy on whether they would allow activation of an OEM version in Win 7. Depends on the contact, some will activate the OEM OS with new hardware and some will not.
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 07:57:25
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Out of curiosity I went over to newegg and read the reviews on Win10......wow! This is enough to make me jump to a Mac. I don't like the idea that Microsoft can use my machine to mine information for whatever purpose, nor do I like the way your Win 10 machine acts as a server. They are using my paid internet connection and computer to gather info for their benefit. I want a recording machine but it looks like I'm aiding and abetting big brother. There certainly IS a reason they're giving away free upgrades. Google and others have already been doing this for years, but now Microsoft has decided to make us all comply with their data mining in the new OS. How this might affect recording remains to be seen, but if it's robbing my cpu while I need it for audio work, I feel used. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks guys for those ideas. Sorry to divert a little from the main OS discussion but I think this is big.
post edited by Starise - 2015/11/06 08:09:47
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fireberd
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 08:40:34
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First what "info" they get is anonymous. However, as I noted I disable the Ethernet NIC (controller) when I run Sonar and thus there is no internet activity to potentially cause problems. "Big brother" has been watching for years, there is data being "mined" in Win 7 and many application programs. In many cases when you agree to the terms of a software package (most do not read them and just agree) you are also agreeing to allow them to track usage or whatever they say in the terms.
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 09:11:52
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I think disabling the internet controller is certainly helpful, although when reconnected it will simply catch up,and maybe this isn't an issue, but maybe it is. If I leave my machine disconnected from the web for a week and I plug it back in I might have 500 update files, so if a person is of a mind to do that I would make time for it to catch up, or another option might be to leave the ethernet connected and the machine running most of the time, so it can update when you're not using it. This makes Win10 Home less convenient because it decides when to update and you have no control over it.
Some of the things I'm reading scare me about Win 10, on this site and on others, there appears to be problems with some machines when they update, as in the drivers don't communicate or are lost. In one case a user installed Win10 and configured their machine for a dedicated use. After the auto updates, the computer reverted back and lost all of those settings...scary. I'm guessing an update might be better in that if you have Win 8 the update sees and keeps certain configurations. If the install is a clean OEM, I'm not so sure since it's totally new...but there isn't much choice on a new build.
I not especially concerned about the mining so much as I don't want that process interfering with audio work or stealing valuable cpu cycles. It could work for us if we can save an image in the cloud in case there's a problem. I think I wish things were more of an option and not a forced decision from Microsoft. I'm tempted to go the Win 8.1 route as was suggested and see if I like that.
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papacucku
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 09:38:17
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MY windows 10 rig had to auto recover a while back and it took several attempts to get it back after it was done , I noticed the license was no longer valid, I put the actual number in and it said, used to many times and gave me a number to call. I called the number and a very sophisticated voice recognition aware system asked me a few questions and said I was cool (it all took about 5 minutes). My license would then validate again. It was all pretty slick so if you have a valid license I think licensing may be alright (easier then in the past). However, I do disable my network card and AV when I use the rig as a DAW which is bout 50% of the time. I have been on 10 home for about 6 months now and at first Adobe cloud apps didn't have all the menus, then a few weeks patches on the adobe cloud side and all seems good. My main DAW is still win7. If nothing is broke ......I don't know if I would go to win 10 this was a new computer for me so ..
post edited by papacucku - 2015/11/06 09:49:23
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fireberd
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 09:53:03
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I only have my system off line for the time I'm using Sonar. May be 1 hour may be 4 hours or may be 8 hours. But, its back on line after that.
As far as problems, "Backup" is imperative for any PC or OS. "Backups are not for IF they are needed but for WHEN they are needed". I make full drive backups "images" using Macrium Reflect. I alternate backup to two different drives, one internal and the other a USB connected drive. If I have an unrecoverable failure I've only potentially lost a minimum of data. I don't lose Sonar Projects as they are on a different drive than the OS drive (they are backed up too).
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 11:37:25
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papacucku
MY windows 10 rig had to auto recover a while back and it took several attempts to get it back after it was done , I noticed the license was no longer valid, I put the actual number in and it said, used to many times and gave me a number to call. I called the number and a very sophisticated voice recognition aware system asked me a few questions and said I was cool (it all took about 5 minutes). My license would then validate again. It was all pretty slick so if you have a valid license I think licensing may be alright (easier then in the past). However, I do disable my network card and AV when I use the rig as a DAW which is bout 50% of the time. I have been on 10 home for about 6 months now and at first Adobe cloud apps didn't have all the menus, then a few weeks patches on the adobe cloud side and all seems good. My main DAW is still win7. If nothing is broke ......I don't know if I would go to win 10 this was a new computer for me so ..
Yes but look what it did to you...you're a FRIGGIN ROBOT! :)) Thanks for sharing your experiences papakuchu! I'm not sure why you would need to re validate a license. The system must have mistaken the system recovery for a replacement. Fireberd, Oh I see, so you only use it for a short time. Makes perfect sense. I'm glad you guys are in the know about these changes and appreciate the info. I might order a motherboard and it might fry, in which case I would be reluctant to re order the same board again....so a mobo change isn't entirely out of the question.
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TerraSin
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 13:35:25
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Starise
Out of curiosity I went over to newegg and read the reviews on Win10......wow! This is enough to make me jump to a Mac. I don't like the idea that Microsoft can use my machine to mine information for whatever purpose, nor do I like the way your Win 10 machine acts as a server. They are using my paid internet connection and computer to gather info for their benefit. I want a recording machine but it looks like I'm aiding and abetting big brother. There certainly IS a reason they're giving away free upgrades. What makes you think Mac isn't doing this stuff as well? Half the data mining done in Windows 10 is so that Cortana can work. The other half they have been doing behind the scenes since XP. The difference is that MS is now one of the only companies to come forward and be completely honest about what they are doing and how they are doing it while companies like Google, Facebook and Apple.
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 14:20:54
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Apple probably is doing it as well, but I haven't heard anything like that. Maybe someone who uses a Mac could comment? My comment was twofold. I also am getting tired of the huge changes every time a new Windows OS comes along. At least Apple seems to keep a certain consistency to what they do.
I know it won't change anything, but I wish we could at least opt and not be forced to help companies mine our data. I don't care who does or doesn't do it. If they do it ..I don't like it, but that's me....
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slartabartfast
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/06 19:42:08
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/11 18:21:06
Actually Microsoft is not doing anything close to what Apple does routinely. There are a host of things you can do to Win 10 to keep your system from just feeding the beast. If you use anything except the OS you are probably already co-operating with data mining of your computer experience. THERE IS NOTHING FREE ON THE INTERNET Every service has either found a way to charge you or market the information you give away by using the service or both. Google...anything---you just gave Google everything. If you have a Google account for anything, you just gave them personally identifiable information. Google does no evil...it just does business. Even the US government saves $$$ by "encouraging" you to use online access instead of interacting with expensive real people...and then likely as not fails to protect your privacy from hackers. http://www.zdnet.com/article/is-windows-10-telemetry-a-threat-to-your-personal-privacy/http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-tries-to-clear-the-air-on-windows-10-privacy-furor/http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-secure-windows-10-the-paranoids-guide/http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/ As far as Win 10 versions go, you have very little to gain by going Pro or by going legitimate retail vs OEM. As others have stated MS has been pretty lax about enforcing anything relating to the OEM restrictions. Unless you are some kind of computer maven like the good doctor, you are not going to know what to do if your automatic update screws you anyway. The only use most real users will find for the Pro version is a strong encryption system, and most will not even know what to do with that. If you want to run Sonar, Home is just fine. The only reason I have Win 10 Pro is that it is the only version offered as a free upgrade from windows 7 or 8, and I have a bunch of licenses for those OS's. As far as no support for OEM, well MS does not offer any really useful free support anyway, and per incident support is so expensive and generally useless, that you are better off just re-installing everything--the final step invariably suggested by a Microsoft support 'engineer" after wasting your time and money.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/11/06 19:56:16
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bapu
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/09 14:16:02
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Tim, I so want to be paranoid about data mining.
Unfortunately I simply don't care that some nerd is following my VST purchases. Maybe he's jealous?
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/09 15:44:07
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Thanks slartabartfast. Lots of useful info in those links.
I think there's what they tell you they will or won't do and then there's what they really do, Bapu if that's paranoid, then count me in . I tend to agree that it's mostly business driving it all. If the data eventually falls into the wrong hands though it could be bad...they might be looking for Bapu and those vsts.
The whole internet has this feeling of security. We sit alone behind a computer and it feels personal and private. This is so misleading. I like that we can at least minimize the spyware in settings on Win 10. If Win10 is really our last OS, then this is only the beginning.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/09 20:00:54
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/10 15:32:22
bapu
Tim, I so want to be paranoid about data mining.
Unfortunately I simply don't care that some nerd is following my VST purchases. Maybe he's jealous?
All the nerd has to do is come to the deals forum and he can follow your purchases.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/09 20:10:06
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/11 18:22:54
Starise
Apple probably is doing it as well, but I haven't heard anything like that. Maybe someone who uses a Mac could comment? My comment was twofold. I also am getting tired of the huge changes every time a new Windows OS comes along. At least Apple seems to keep a certain consistency to what they do.
I know it won't change anything, but I wish we could at least opt and not be forced to help companies mine our data. I don't care who does or doesn't do it. If they do it ..I don't like it, but that's me....
Then stay away from Mac. Their latest OS upgrade, vendors were warning not to install because 3rd party software would not work. Sometimes it's up to Apple to decide whether your hardware becomes a doorstop. I have a desktop and a craptop that can't be upgraded where W10 runs fine. People habitually runs down MS every time they do something new but in many ways it's their own fault. Apple has created sheeple where people rejoice everything that is new. When MS creates something they find a way to piss people off.
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Beepster
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/10 13:17:18
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/10 15:32:11
I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but for those concerned about forced updates and the "always online" type crap in Win10 the Enterprise version supposedly let's you avoid all that.
You have to pay for Enterprise though no matter what. It is not one of the possible free upgrade versions like if you own Win7/8.
Enterprise editions generally have several of the more consumer components stripped out (but other business related components added). Not sure if it has the same audio benchmark improvements constantly touted around here and elsewhere but since that is likely all under the hood stuff I'm sure it would work just fine on a DAW.
/not a tech
//just a mook who did a bit of reading about the forced updates/versions
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/10 15:13:43
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kitekrazy1
Starise
Apple probably is doing it as well, but I haven't heard anything like that. Maybe someone who uses a Mac could comment? My comment was twofold. I also am getting tired of the huge changes every time a new Windows OS comes along. At least Apple seems to keep a certain consistency to what they do.
I know it won't change anything, but I wish we could at least opt and not be forced to help companies mine our data. I don't care who does or doesn't do it. If they do it ..I don't like it, but that's me....
Then stay away from Mac. Their latest OS upgrade, vendors were warning not to install because 3rd party software would not work. Sometimes it's up to Apple to decide whether your hardware becomes a doorstop.
I have a desktop and a craptop that can't be upgraded where W10 runs fine.
People habitually runs down MS every time they do something new but in many ways it's their own fault. Apple has created sheeple where people rejoice everything that is new. When MS creates something they find a way to piss people off.
I guess I'll stay away from Apple too...Jobs probably wouldn't be happy with it now. I'm just an old curmudgeon who needs something to be unhappy about :)OK already... I'll drink the effing koolade. Why is everything always the lesser of two evils lately? Can't buy a computer OS without a contract that hundreds of lawyers worked on to make sure they have us all by the short hairs and is loaded with spyware that you need to turn off. I can at least get excited about how Platinum runs on the new OS and the new faster hardware, I hope :) I wish I could be one of those Winxp dudes who is happy with an outdated OS and slower hardware. I just don't want to have a failure so I'm preparing to hopefully not have one, but I still could have one.* does a facepalm* As one intelligent person once said in a really in depth observation, " It is what it is". Just another thought. I keep hearing that the 10 version of Windows is miles ahead of the older versions in how it deals with audio. Is this true if you still use the older drivers or must we use a newer dedicated windows audio driver? How is it really better with audio? As a sidenote, some of these new motherboards have a lot of audio crap I don't really need or want.
post edited by Starise - 2015/11/10 15:38:37
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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slartabartfast
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/10 15:46:51
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2015/11/11 10:56:38
Starise
Just another thought. I keep hearing that the 10 version of Windows is miles ahead of the older versions in how it deals with audio. Is this true if you still use the older drivers or must we use a newer dedicated windows audio driver? How is it really better with audio? As a sidenote, some of these new motherboards have a lot of audio crap I don't really need or want.
Windows has been trying to improve the streaming media performance for some time now, but the audio developers have been largely ignoring the improvements Microsoft has offered, and stayed with a proprietary workaround like ASIO. To take full advantage of what they are offering most software would need to be recoded, and it is pretty uncommon to find drivers even for WASAPI and WDM on most pro or prosumer level equipment. Eventually you may find some performance improvements, but maybe not for the equipment you have now. Cakewalk jumped on the bandwagon with both feet when one of the early attempts at audio performance improvements from MS was introduced. How many other developers fell into the DXi trap? Still you have to give them credit for even trying in and era where computer audio is mainly being used as a juke box. https://msdn.microsoft.co...mt298187(v=vs.85).aspx
post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/11/10 16:02:31
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/11 10:43:27
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Thanks slartabartfast for that info. I decided to buy Windows 8.1 and upgrade later. The decision was made mainly because I ordered an outboard usb 3.0 SDD/HDD transfer device that doesn't seem to work with Windows 10 judging from customer comments. After I load my OS my plan was to put my old drives into this external drive dock and copy my files onto my new drives. I can still upgrade to Win 10 free. The prices are all about the same for my version. 8.1 seems like a safer step right now, at least until I get the build completed. I might even wait just a bit longer to upgrade until some more bugs are worked out.
post edited by Starise - 2015/11/11 14:04:13
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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Beepster
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/11 15:09:53
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Is 8.1 even still available for sale? I thought it had been discontinued since 10 hit the market (as is usually the case when a new version is fully released). Probably covered upthread... and I am possible (most likely) ill informed. Edit: and the clock is ticking for how long 10 will be available for free upgrade (from 7 and 8 installs/licenses). I think we have until next summer to take advantage.
post edited by Beepster - 2015/11/11 15:22:07
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Starise
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/11 17:45:03
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Yes you can still buy several versions of Win 8 as of this writing. I even seen Windows 7 Home Premium for sale. I can buy Windows 8 for 99 dollars and upgrade for free. I bought the OEM version.
I can buy Windows 10 for the same price. I wouldn't try to patch my old copy of Windows 7 with an upgrade if I were trying to upgrade my older computer, but you certainly can if you have legit serial numbers. My Windows 7 is an upgrade from a Vista install. The old Vista install still shows up as a startup option although it doesn't boot up. It's a long story which involves me trying to uninstall it and failing to remove all of it.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/11 23:03:33
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W7 Home and Pro are still for sale. They are OEM licenses. I'm not sure W10 for free is going to do it for me on my new builds. It does work nice on older systems.
Sometimes the problem with great OS like XP and W7 is MS running out of license keys. Why can't the do it like game developers who rebrand their games and come out with a W7HD edition or something like that. They are into the distro mode.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Which Windows 10 ?
2015/11/11 23:03:33
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W7 Home and Pro are still for sale. They are OEM licenses. I'm not sure W10 for free is going to do it for me on my new builds. It does work nice on older systems.
Sometimes the problem with great OS like XP and W7 is MS running out of license keys. Why can't the do it like game developers who rebrand their games and come out with a W7HD edition or something like that. They are into the distro mode.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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