FastBikerBoy
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Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
Questions in the title. I'm intrigued - please convince me they exist.
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2011/08/27 13:50:56
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 13:56:55
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Save is now File>Save 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 14:18:56
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Start me off with an easy one Steve. Ctrl-S = no clicks. 
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vintagevibe
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 14:23:57
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FastBikerBoy
Start me off with an easy one Steve. Ctrl-S = no clicks.
Yes but you said mouse clicks. If you choose to use the mouse it now takes more clicks. I prefer the mouse because my pc keyboard is farther away.
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John T
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 14:25:23
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God help us if there's a war.
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 14:39:55
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Hi FBB...
One of my favorites we've been talking about is the split command...
Tho you can use two hands to accmplish a version of this task in a single click, but we are not all ready to split with a first click and prefer to establish the location visually before deciding to cut... If you're of this line of thinking, it now requires two clicks before you can make your split where in all previous version you could estabish the split point in a single click (prior to commiting the actual split)...
So in x1 first click in top half of track establsihes the now time (for split), then a second click is needed to select the clip and finally one more to execute the split...
In 8.5 (or earlier) I could click once with the mouse which both established the now time and selected the clip... then follow up with executing the split...
Yes, alt-click will do the split in a single click, but the locaation is still "floating" with the mouse when the split is executed and I find I often ahve to undo, redo my split until I get what I want...
Then there's the new envelope editing via the Event Filter... This one's got some problems too... I believe that with further refinements this might become good to live with but right now it's a PITA... There's no visual of which envelope is which function (mouse-over tooltip?) and the color is so vague that I cannot see it (they look black here), so even deciding which envelope to edit can be mouse intensive when a number of envelopes exist...
...Just two examples. Not that there are that many more mind you (Oh, there's the missing elements from duplicated views.... I mean the differences between TV's track controls and Inspectors?)...
Most things are as good and a few are better, but these two I mention are in the forefront for me as they involve two areas I use constantly as I believe many others do as well...
Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 15:08:45
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Hi Keni
I appreciate that you don't like the 'new' split but I'm really after the things that have added clicks and there's no other way of doing it. I started this thread so as to not bog down the 'other' loss of function argument thread elsewhere.
Fact remains that Alt+click to split is one click, I know it's not to everyone's liking but isn't it impossible to make a program, or even make a program so customizable that it's perfect for everybody.
As much as some prefer 8.5 it wasn't perfect, or should I say it wasn't perfect for me. Neither I hasten to add is X1. I'm just trying to debunk some of the BS that just about everything was easier with less clicks in earlier versions.
Stuff has moved yes and there are different ways of doing many things but that doesn't automatically make the old way right or better.
I also agree that tool tips over the ghosted envelopes will be a big help but there's still nothing you can't do with the envelopes. It's just different and in the case of envelopes with the tooltips would be almost perfect IMHO of course.
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 15:16:12
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Skyline_UK
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:17:03
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Opening PRV view - 8.5 opened with a default of no notes selected, X1 opens with all notes selected (ludicrous) and you have to click in a space somewhere to get to no notes selected. One extra click! QED.  John
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Bub 
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:29:06
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Well, I was going to participate in this thread, but so far you have changed the criteria to suite your hidden agenda at least twice now FBB.
When you're serious ... start another thread.
Title, "Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?"
FBB, "I'm really after the things that have added clicks and there's no other way of doing it."
FBB, "I'm just trying to debunk some of the BS that just about everything was easier with less clicks in earlier versions.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Bub
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:30:30
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"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:37:17
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Bub
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:43:07
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John
Bub
John
Ten things in X1 that are quicker than they were in 8.5.
John ... please stop coming in to every thread and derailing it with your off topic agenda's.
Bub did you check out the link? But more to the point What Are You Talking About? You have to be joking.
No I'm not joking. The thread title asks which functions require more clicks in X1 than previous versions and what do you do? You provide a link of 10 things in X1 that are quicker than they were in 8.5 which has nothing to do with this thread.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:44:26
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Well, I was going to participate in this thread, but so far you have changed the criteria to suite your hidden agenda at least twice now FBB. So why are you participating? Also your statement that the CB can not be customized is not strictly true. It can be by showing those modules you want to see. One can also rearrange them. That constitutes customization. But now please tell us what requires more clicks. That is what this thread is about, is it not?
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FastBikerBoy
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:46:26
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No I'm not joking. The thread title asks which functions require more clicks in X1 than previous versions and what do you do? You provide a link of 10 things in X1 that are quicker than they were in 8.5 which has nothing to do with this thread. In what way? That video shows less clicking in X1 what could be more on topic? You must not have viewed it. LOL
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:47:47
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FBB is the video OT to you?
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:48:44
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 16:57:09
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Bub
Well, I was going to participate in this thread, but so far you have changed the criteria to suite your hidden agenda at least twice now FBB.
When you're serious ... start another thread.
Title, "Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?"
FBB, "I'm really after the things that have added clicks and there's no other way of doing it."
FBB, "I'm just trying to debunk some of the BS that just about everything was easier with less clicks in earlier versions.
Well you have plenty of goes at hidden agenda threads, now it's my turn. If it's any consolation I stayed out of yours completely without even a comment saying I'm staying out of it. BTW I see all 3 quotes as consistent, if there's an alternative quicker way of achieving the same result - that's less clicks simple fact. I wasn't asking for people's preferences, merely factual backup for all the claims. If there are functions that were quicker in previous versions by any method I'll be first to acknowledge it. After all I did point out in the other 'agenda' thread one thing that is actually missing from X1 as opposed to just changed or moved. I haven't found anything yet that "takes loads more clicks" in X1 unless people choose to, or they prefer another method, I'm asking the people who are saying there's "loads of stuff" - what are they then?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:08:24
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John
FBB is the video OT to you?
I think it highlights my 'agenda' of getting some facts straight........ I've learnt a thing or two myself. BTW I'm obviously happy with X1, if I wasn't I'd be using 8.5 and hanging around the other Sonar forum or on some other DAW's site forum that I'd chosen to use rather than trying to find reasons to prefer earlier versions. Bizarre.............
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:16:03
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Well the only thing so far FBB is that all the opposition can do is play games with words and insult people. Ask them to back up what they are alleging, they are unable to produce.
Show a video that supports fewer clicks they say its off topic.
Explain that doing a task is faster and easier they dispute that without showing why.
They just say its so. No proof, no examples, no nothing. But that doesn't stop them from arguing.
You and I "are not understanding the important points they make". "We can't see the problems". "We are just shills of CW".
Its a waste of our time to try to have a constructive conversation with them.
At first in the past I thought it was a matter of ignorance. Now I know it is far more then just not knowing how to use X1. There is a deep hatred of X1 that is poisoning everything they say. They can't see that but it is apparent with every post they make.
They are so caught up in hatting it they are blind to what it offers. It is a shame really.
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Bub
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:24:50
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FastBikerBoy
Well you have plenty of goes at hidden agenda threads, now it's my turn. If it's any consolation I stayed out of yours completely without even a comment saying I'm staying out of it.
Come on now ... I never asked you to stay out of my threads. If there are functions that were quicker in previous versions by any method I'll be first to acknowledge it. After all I did point out in the other 'agenda' thread one thing that is actually missing from X1 as opposed to just changed or moved.
I must have missed that one. Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't found anything yet that "takes loads more clicks" in X1 unless people choose to, or they prefer another method, I'm asking the people who are saying there's "loads of stuff" - what are they then?
Well, in the other thread ... which is what prompted you to start this one, so you can see why I'd be a little defensive ... I didn't say "loads" more clicks. I said, "... a lot of functions require more clicks than they used to." Now, if I would have said something stupid like, oh, I dunno ... you can't have a project with 1 track with Guitar Rig 4 on an i5 Quad Core with 4GB RAM, and you started a thread to prove a point about that, then I'd be less inclined to counter your thread. ... but with this, I think you're blowing it out of proportion.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:35:12
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FastBikerBoy
Hi Keni
I appreciate that you don't like the 'new' split but I'm really after the things that have added clicks and there's no other way of doing it. I started this thread so as to not bog down the 'other' loss of function argument thread elsewhere.
Fact remains that Alt+click to split is one click, I know it's not to everyone's liking but isn't it impossible to make a program, or even make a program so customizable that it's perfect for everybody.
As much as some prefer 8.5 it wasn't perfect, or should I say it wasn't perfect for me. Neither I hasten to add is X1. I'm just trying to debunk some of the BS that just about everything was easier with less clicks in earlier versions.
Stuff has moved yes and there are different ways of doing many things but that doesn't automatically make the old way right or better.
I also agree that tool tips over the ghosted envelopes will be a big help but there's still nothing you can't do with the envelopes. It's just different and in the case of envelopes with the tooltips would be almost perfect IMHO of course.
Hi Fbb... I just wrote a long reply and deleted it before I posted... There is no point to this anymore for me... Cakewalk knows how I feel in triplicate (at least) ;-) Skyline_UK (John) -Right on with the all note selection issue.... Couldn't be more ridiculous! Keni
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:39:52
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FastBikerBoy
Skyline_UK
Opening PRV view - 8.5 opened with a default of no notes selected, X1 opens with all notes selected (ludicrous) and you have to click in a space somewhere to get to no notes selected.
One extra click! QED.
John
More mis-information. The PRV opens with all notes selected if you double click a MIDI track hence selecting the whole track/clip. Why on earth would a selected track not have all the notes selected, there'd be yet another riot on here if you selected a track and none of the notes were selected. 
If however you don't select the whole track, but just make it active and then press Alt+3, open PRV no notes selected, as expected.
Hi FBB... I don't know what you're looking for here... This is a legitimate issue... If you open 8.5 with a dbl click it doesn't select all notes and in X1 it does which forces an extra click to undo... Maybe you might make your question real specific here as you seem to have a disclaimer for each item brought up... I must be missing what you're looking for in this... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:41:37
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Thanks for that one Steve...
I'm feeling that way myself! ;-)
Keni
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:44:30
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SteveStrummerUK
Save is now File>Save
I'm surprised you weren't directed to use Ctl-S so that you can do it in one... Gotta use the keyboard tho.... so for me that's often slower... Oh, and we could do that in 8.5 so there we had two choices for a single stroke version and in X1 only one... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 17:53:34
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John
Well the only thing so far FBB is that all the opposition can do is play games with words and insult people. Ask them to back up what they are alleging, they are unable to produce.
Show a video that supports fewer clicks they say its off topic.
Explain that doing a task is faster and easier they dispute that without showing why.
They just say its so. No proof, no examples, no nothing. But that doesn't stop them from arguing.
You and I "are not understanding the important points they make". "We can't see the problems". "We are just shills of CW".
Its a waste of our time to try to have a constructive conversation with them.
At first in the past I thought it was a matter of ignorance. Now I know it is far more then just not knowing how to use X1. There is a deep hatred of X1 that is poisoning everything they say. They can't see that but it is apparent with every post they make.
They are so caught up in hatting it they are blind to what it offers. It is a shame really.
Hi John... For me there are many more issues here... We've been around the block many times... I don't hate X1... I like some of the things in it but I'm bothered by things that are missing... Different means missing in this game or else PT is the same as Sonar and that's the end of it... I don't want to stay in 8.5 but I do want my workflow back up to snuf and I can't get it there with some of these issues small as they may seem... BTW... I saw the video earlier and posted a remark there too... I'm not claiming that you can't do things in X1 only that some things are now forced harder for many peoples' needs/desires... Cakewalk ahve always prided themselves on giving the users what they want... and I'm glad they found what you want but why did it have to cost me what I want?... I don't want 8.5, I want X1 with enough of these items adjusted so that this bickering can end... I spend far too much of my time on these issues in the hopes that it will help down the line... When they first came up with features such as the layers display, it was a great idea and new at the time... and in need of further tools to make it more useful to more users... such is the case now... They've come up with new things but now need to address the details that make it comfortable and productive for more users... So I go on... Again I like X1 as much as any other Sonar release, but I feel it's in need of these other options... Sorry if I "bent your ear" Keni
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John
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 18:00:33
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I don't know what you're looking for here... This is a legitimate issue... If you open 8.5 with a dbl click it doesn't select all notes and in X1 it does which forces an extra click to undo... Maybe you might make your question real specific here as you seem to have a disclaimer for each item brought up... Kini I would have liked to see what you wrote in your deleted post. Now to the point at hand. What FBB is saying is that you can't simply say X1 requires more clicks for the example given because there is a new way to do it. It does not require more clicks. If you don't want the notes selected don't use a double click. Because one is trying to do the same things in the same way in X1 that they did in 8XX doesn't mean X1 requires more clicks. It means one needs to learn the new way. Once that is done X1 does go a lot faster. I recall you having a lot of trouble with the new smart tool. It seemed to me you were using it as if you were still in 8XX. Its that sort of thing that I am and I think FBB are trying to point out. I have said this so many times it should be burned in everyone's memory. Perhaps it will take at some point. The basic idea is that X1 is a totally new program. One in which we the users have to learn. We can not fall back on the ways we once did things. If the results one is getting with X1 using the old procedures are different then its time to find out how its done in X1. Don't rely on what you know about 8XX.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 18:01:18
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If you open 8.5 with a dbl click it doesn't select all notes and in X1 it does which forces an extra click to undo...
TBH Keni I no haven't opened 8.5 for so long I don't know this for fact but I'm pretty sure the double click in 8.5 doesn't select the clip. The problem with X1 is that the double click selects no matter where the smart tool is in the clip. Now that is a valid complaint and IMHO something that shouldn't happen. That's a different complaint to the fact that all the notes in a selected clip are selected. That I would expect. It's inaccuracies in what actually happens that weakens many of the arguments. So someone says opening the PRV selects all notes in the clip. It doesn't, the problem is the double click selects the whole clip. If the claimed problems are inaccurate the real problem never gets fixed and that's why I think it's important to be accurate. I've already put in a FR for that as well BTW.
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Bub
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Re:Which functions require more clicks to use in X1 than in earlier versions?
2011/08/27 18:17:26
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John
What FBB is saying is that you can't simply say X1 requires more clicks for the example given because there is a new way to do it. It does not require more clicks. If you don't want the notes selected don't use a double click.
Yeah Keni ... stop using just your mouse and use your hands and keyboard as well, it's quicker ... trust me, and technically, you only have 1 mouse click as apposed to two, so it is in fact faster, although it takes you longer. I wouldn't lie to you. Rather than double click like we used to be able to do in 8.5 ... in X1, do the following ... 1 - Click on the track 2 - Hold down the 'Alt' key 3 - Press the #3 key Good luck Keni. Bub
post edited by Bub - 2011/08/27 18:22:10
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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