Which gain option is best?

Author
merhere
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 19
  • Joined: 2010/06/21 09:56:58
  • Status: offline
2013/08/02 08:46:01 (permalink)

Which gain option is best?

Greetings. I am recording a solo fingerstyle guitar. The gain (or volume) needs to be boosted a bit for the final mix in order to match commercial volume levels. I am unsure as the best approach to accomplish this. Is there a preferred way that minimizes added noise or artifact? or is one a good as the other?
methods I know of:
1. boost the gain on the initial track a bit, leaving the sliders on all buses at 0.
2. use the sliders on the track, leaving other sliders at 0
3. use the sliders on the master bus, again with other sliders at 0
4. add a maximizer plugin and boost the final mix with all sliders at 0
 
Thanks.

It's all about the blues...
#1

9 Replies Related Threads

    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/02 09:09:03 (permalink)
     
    "Sliders at 0" is an old practice based on concerns about noise floor and the "taper" of the potentiometer/slider on analog boards.
     
    Now a days it is just a convention that offers a convenience of familiarity.
     
    If it is truly just a solo guitar... you can get there any way you want. Of course you may have some specific concerns about how hot a Vintage modeled EQ is getting hit or maybe a reverb send... stuff like that.
     
    I'd probably put a maximizing limiter on the master bus and turn it up there.
     
    best regards,
    mike
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/08/02 09:12:44


    #2
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/02 10:05:00 (permalink)
    Don't worry about hitting commercial levels while recording and mixing. Instead, leave that for the very last step. All you need to do is make sure your initial levels aren't too low, i.e. so low that the signal-to-noise ratio becomes an issue. Fortunately, in the digital world you have a huge margin for error. And, of course, make sure you don't exceed 0dB on the highest peaks. Use gentle track compression on the guitar to keep average RMS levels up and steady, being careful to not overcompress it.
     
    As you audition the mix, just turn up your monitors until it sounds adequately loud. When it comes time to finalize the mix and burn it onto a CD or convert it to an MP3, a limiter is the best way to get the volume up to commercial levels. At that point, you can compare your results to appropriate commercial references to see if you're in the ballpark.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #3
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/02 10:12:17 (permalink)
    I used to think I knew... but I realize that I don't think there is any way to discern what is appropriate anymore.
     
    :-)


    #4
    merhere
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 19
    • Joined: 2010/06/21 09:56:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/02 12:15:55 (permalink)
    Thank you both for the insight. I'll use the maximizing limiter when I prepare the master. Thanks again.
    post edited by merhere - 2013/08/02 13:45:39

    It's all about the blues...
    #5
    jacktheexcynic
    Max Output Level: -44.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3069
    • Joined: 2004/07/07 11:47:11
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/04 11:53:39 (permalink)
    i would try an expander prior to any compression in the chain. since it's a solo, there's no other track to "cover" the noise floor. an expander can help get a higher signal to noise ratio so that when you do use the limiter, you don't "crush" the signal back into the noise as much.

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #6
    dmbaer
    Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2585
    • Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
    • Location: Concord CA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/04 15:26:03 (permalink)
    mike_mccue
     
    "Sliders at 0" is an old practice based on concerns about noise floor and the "taper" of the potentiometer/slider on analog boards.
     
    Now a days it is just a convention that offers a convenience of familiarity.
     



    I would argue that it's more than just a convention.  Of course with an internal signal stream using floating point, clipping is not an issue until the very end of the process where we convert back to fixed point.  So, that's not the motivation.
     
    However, set your fader around zero and decrease three dB.  Easy, right?  Now set your fader at -30dB and decrease from there by three dB.  Takes quite a lot of precision.  It's a whole lot easier doing detailed tweaking when the fader is near zero.
    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/04 16:37:11 (permalink)
    Yes. I referred to that issue in the part of the sentence that looked like ""taper"".
     
    I don't regard the taper of a potentiometer as an issue with a DAW... and frankly I rarely found it an issue with a good analog board either.
     
    It always seemed like if you set the trim or input so that you had good signal level and some head room at the input that you end up with the fader somewhere that works out ok. Watching people slavishly turn down the input trim on something they want to sound quiet in the mix just so they can leave the fader at "0" seemed corny back then and I figure I still have that same opinion.
     
    We used to have a response to folks who asked why the faders weren't all lined up at "0" (usually a well meaning guy from the band): "Why do you think they put the faders on this thing?"
     
    I'm fairly comfortable with my personal opinion that it was and is a convention that more or less melts away when you start mixing and realize that the circumstance as a whole will lead you to getting the sound through ok or you'll figure out why it's not and and then it will get through ok.
     
     
    Happy mixing!!!
     
    best regards,
    mike


    #8
    Kalle Rantaaho
    Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7005
    • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
    • Location: Finland
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/08 06:25:58 (permalink)
    Using two compressors in a row with very subtle settings might get you somewhere as well.

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #9
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 24398
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Which gain option is best? 2013/08/08 08:31:41 (permalink)
    Yes,  ignore the need to have it loud in the tracking stages. You have a volume control to get it louder if you need too.
     
    I look to get a good solid input level. As Bitflipper pointed out, if the level is too low, as you increase it later you also increase the surrounding noise..... room noise, which you don't want. So work on getting a solid tracking level to start with.
     
    I like to have my mics in fairly close to the acoustic guitar. Generally 12" or so. This ensures that I'm hearing the guitar as the predominate source and later, I can turn it up as needed without the room noise intruding and ruining the take.
     
    In a  finger picking session, I'm sure the finger noises are part of the performance so close miking will get that as well. I know that when I record mandolin, I have the mic even closer.... sometimes 6" or less from the sound hole, and that grabs the pick sound on the strings which I feel gives some percussive character to the mandolin sound in the mix.
     
    Shoot for a clean, well recorded session and don't worry in the tracking stages about the eventual final mix volume. There are plenty of ways to get the final levels up.....first things first.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/08/08 08:34:32

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #10
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1