Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack?

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Beepster
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2014/02/13 11:21:57 (permalink)

Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack?

Figured I'd post this here too.
 
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Seems dumb I don't know this but I've always used an interface and direct mixer outs for recording and I don't want to fry anything. I'm also curious of advantages, disadvantages and the general science behind it all BUT I really just need to know what I can get away with here. I figure a lot of you guys probably have some experience with this type of thing.
 
So here's the deal. I've got a little project that will require me to record some really low level signals into Pyro on my laptop (Pyro is pretty darned cool for $20 BTW). I've tried the internal mics and plugging my only non XLR mic into it (I have no idea what happened to my adapters which sucks) but the results are really bad (noise floor, fan noise, crappy mic buzz, etc). So I'm going to set up one of my old boards and use a proper condenser mic. I have various cables and adapters that will make the proper connections but some would be more elaborate and annoying than others. The easiest for me would to use the RCA tape outs but I can jury rig the other setups.
 
The board has:
RCA Tape out l/r (easiest)
Stereo Headphone out (also pretty easy)
Monitor/Alt Monitor/Aux out all l/r (kind of a pain)
 
So a) are any of these options gonna damage the mic input/soundcard on my laptop (Realtek hi-def) and b) which will provide the lowest noise floor?
 
Also I'm going to try a couple things but maybe you guys could recommend what's best in regards to handling the Windows mixer input. Like should I keep the Windows mic input level (in the Control Panel) turned down and crank the board up to compensate or use a higher Windows input level and keep the board lower? Again I'm trying to reduce the noise floor as much as possible.
 
As a side note I am quite pleased with how Pyro is performing. Although I'm only recording one stereo channel at a time I've had zero dropouts and pretty low latency running at 44.1/16bit and even while tossing effects like the Izotope Audio Restore (which is included) and multiple EQs I haven't had any problems on my rather meager box store laptop. I was using Audacity at first but it is not nearly as nice IMO. Really glad I snagged it with the one of the $20 Cake freebies. All I really wanted it for was the mp3 encoder and the music library functions but it works great as a simple recording tool as well. I might use it to record board feeds at shows in the future.
 
Anyway... thanks for your thoughts on all this. Cheers.
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    rumleymusic
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 12:37:36 (permalink)
    My first comment should be,  do not under any circumstances plug anything into your laptop microphone input for the purposes of recording.  The maker probably invested a grand total of $2 on audio components and it is the wrong tool for the job.  Get a real USB interface, they are extremely cheap now.
     
    To get to the real question, the mic input on the laptop is expecting an electret microphone and will add gain to the signal, it is rather unsuitable for a line input.  If you must, you can just use an unbalanced Y cable from the main output of the mixer.  Tape output is okay also.  You have to be sure the input of the laptop is not overloading though.  

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    Beepster
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:00:48 (permalink)
    Thanks. I do indeed have an interface. Two actually and rather nice ones at that but they live in my "studio". One is PCI based so that's a no go and the other is USB but it is currently my main unit so I don't want to be tearing it down and setting it up again every night/morning. I just need to be able to snag some quick audio on the fly. The quality doesn't even matter aside from the noise floor thing. These recordings won't be going toward any musical efforts.
     
    I've actually got the board cleaned up and sitting on one of my desks next to the laptop in question to do some tests but was waiting for someone to say I wasn't gonna trash something. If the tape and mains are a safe output then all should be well. Everything will be turned right down to begin with (Windows record input level and the board) then slowly turned up as I go.
     
    I guess another question I have is... are these onboard mic inputs generally stereo or mono? I know the onboard webcam mic is stereo and the little dictaphone mic I tried was stereo and worked through the input but if it is a mono input then perhaps I'll want to take that into consideration.
     
    Sorry, I'm kind of a dumbass when it comes to analog connections like this. Thanks again for your input... no pun intended... well maybe a little. ;-)
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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:30:20 (permalink)
    Your board's tape, monitor and aux outs will be at line level, which risk overdriving the laptop's mic in, but the mixer's phone outs are probably hotter yet.
     
    If forced down this path, I'd start with the board's tape outs, as some of mine have been slightly lower level than standard line level. I'd set all levels, pad, fader, buss, master, Windows mixer mic in and record level, etc., at zero, feed signal to the mic, make meters visible at as many places in the chain as possible, and fade up slowly, at the end of the chain, monitors off, just watching meters, and then work my way back up the chain, noting redline settings at each gain stage. Once thru, you can mentally group the faders into two classes, 'fire' and 'safe within limits'. Then maybe test tradeoffs in quality between your front end and back end at min/max, max/min, and even.
     
    But before I'd do any of that, I'd grab my phone or tablet, and test the various onboard apps with the built-in mic, (I get reasonable audio quality from the vid camera on HDMI recording settings, less so from voice recorder) and see what my import options are with a file (not audio) transfer to the laptop hard drive.
     
    PS...Every computer mic input I've ever seen is mono.
    post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2014/02/13 13:32:52

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    Beepster
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:31:43 (permalink)
    The following is incorrect. See post #9 for details.
     
     
    So I was digging around the Windows 7 Control Panel (Start > Control Panel > Sound-Manage Audio Devices > Recording (tab)... then clicked the listed system microphone (in my case Conexant Hi-def blah blah blah) and then in the popup selected the Listen tab.
     
    There it states "You can listen to a portable music player or other device through this microphone jack. If you connect a microphone you may hear feedback."  Then below there is a check box that says Listen which is currently unchecked (default).
     
    So I am assuming that this relates to what you were talking about in regards to the input wanting an a mic and the input level being too hot (or hotter than you want) for a line input. I'm also assuming that if I click that checkmark option (to presumably make the input a stereo input capable of handling input from a portable music device) that my line level outputs from the mixer will be accepted as such as opposed to a microphone input.
     
    That is a whole heckuva a lot of assumptions and I'm really not sure if they are correct but perhaps someone will see this and know the answer.
     
    And this is exactly the type of thing that confuses me about these connection issues. So many damned variables. Makes me crazy. Urgh... so much easier when everything is in the box. lol
     
    Cheers.
     
     
    post edited by Beepster - 2014/02/13 14:40:06
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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:37:53 (permalink)
    I think you are correct. I think Windows is giving you an input pad so as to accept a line in signal on the mic input.
     
    Given the potential consequences, I'd try it while assuming the opposite, that you are putting line levels into a mic port, and eeeeease into gain.

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    Beepster
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:40:33 (permalink)
    Hi Jay Tee. Thanks for that (I was typing up that other post when you posted yours). I have indeed tested my other options and they weren't working out very well. The onboard webcam mic thingie was picking up WAY to much fan hum for what I'm doing and unfortunately the dictaphone mic, as nice as it is, wants the signal to be much closer than I need.
     
    I really was hoping I could do this without hooking up the mixer but here we are. I agree that I'll need to slowly nudge things up and watch a) the Windows input levels, b) the Pyro input levels and c) the mixer input levels.
     
    I am however really thinking that the Listen option I mentioned might bring down the input levels to where they need to be for accepting a line level. I may be looking at the in reverse though and it'll be LOUDER. Not sure... as I am easily confused.
     
    I appreciate you taking the time to post. This is actually pretty important and damned I should already know this crap. Thanks.
     
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    Beepster
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 13:42:36 (permalink)
    Again, beat me to the punch but I think that's going to be the first test. Thanks again. I've seen a few of your other posts and you are a rather helpful and knowledgeable fellow. It is certainly appreciated. Cheers.
     
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    Beepster
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    Re: Which mixer output to use to record to laptop mic input jack? 2014/02/13 14:39:53 (permalink)
    Correction: The Listen option in Windows I described above is NOT an input trim/level option but a throughput. Basically it makes it so that if you plug anything into the mic jack it is immediately audible through window/your soundcard. I figured this out because even with input monitoring in Pyro turned off I was still able to hear the input from the mixer which I did not want. I checked the input levels in Pyro with the Listen option engaged and disengaged and they were the same so there was no trim or boost applied (as far as I can tell).
     
    However the tape out from the board into the 1/8 mic in on the laptop is producing a seemingly decent signal with a dynamic mic hooked up. I do have things attenuated somewhat and I have yet to test this with my condenser mic but so far so good.
     
    Thanks again. Cheers.
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