Kreative


At least Cakewalk has a very healthy head start on developing a fully realized product, and has the proven resources of its own staff and Roland corp. I think that's worth a lot in terms of potential and hope. I think that I'll personally be patient, and wait and see what happens before I make any final judgment about the future of Sonar. The alternatives are not necessarily as promising if you go to some of the other user forums and witness the pandemonium there.

This is hilarious.

I notice your join date is August, you obviously missed December through July.  If you did you have no idea what pandemonium actually looks like.

I've been around all the forums for apps that have been released subsequently to X1 and nothing has compared remotely to the issues X1 arrived with and the amount wailing and gnashing of teeth that quite rightly happened as a result, nor anything like the amount of rose-tinted denial from those that had already spent money on it.

Look at the lists of fixes in the A, B and C updates if you think I'm making that up and remember those are only the so far acknowledged issues that have currently been fixed, and sold to you as you'll see in Strummy's post above as some 'free' priviledge you are getting as a valued X1 customer.  They are doing you a favour by fixing what is broken?

The plain and simple noticeable reason that other apps have fewer teething problems is that they employ public beta testing policies where you don't have to buy the product first.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

I'm trying more and more to use what's included with a program, as it makes a project more transportable, and there (hopefully) won't be surprises if it needs to be opened in a few years.

 
The risk of that is relatively low with our stuff since we have a record of focussing on project compatibility. You can open files in X1 that date back to the dark ages - even WRK files open :-)
The thing to beware of is plugins however. There is no guarantee that a future version would bundle the same plugins or that those plugins would even work on a new OS several years down the road. Insurance against that is saving an archival version of the project with all such tracks frozen. That way you can always selectively unfreeze only what you need later and always get to a working mix.

Hmm, well I take issue with this because one of the big problems I was having with X1 was, in fact, backward compatibility - not due to plugins.  X1 simply would choke on a lot (most) of my pre-X1 projects; even ones worked on just prior to X1's release AND during it's initial release phase.

X1-Expanded has (magically) solved that now, so I'm ok (and happy about that); but there were/are? some bugs left to make the backward compatibility solid.

Others have reported very similar compatibility issues over these last bunch of months as you probably know.

Jonbouy - OK, X1 had initial problems FOR SOME PEOPLE - (none here I might add) but there are plenty of happy X1 users out there who are too busy making music to visit forums. Have you downloaded the FREE demo yet to make your own mind up about X1?

Elffin



Will there ever be improvements to the socre / notation view Noel? Thats the main frustration I have..

Don't get me started!

Thanks Noel ....

I agree on the the stance that we don't expect Sonar to be a full features  notation package.
 
What would be nice is
... a method of seeing the cc controller windows integrated to SV (similar to piano roll)

A useful feature would could be developed is the drum map feature (which could control the articulations of sampled libraries) - I've see some guys doing this and it its present form seems quite laboured...   I suppose a unique way of working would be using 'midi layers' as seen in the audio tracks one for articulations and others for the main midi music data.

@Vintagevibe - thats the  end of me posting bout notation in this thread.

LOL - brilliant Jonbouy

daryl1968


LOL - brilliant Jonbouy

One thing I do know for sure by now that any testimonial from you is pretty much going to be irrelevant.  But entertaining nonetheless...

8.5 fanboys - (or should that be fanbouys) remember this? http://www.cakewalk.com/S...b/reader.aspx/20091119 - and this? http://www.cakewalk.com/S...reader.aspx/2007012920 it takes a little while for these things to find there feet

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Im sure there would be incremental improvements over time but I doubt that SONAR would ever get close to the realm of what dedicated notation applications do. Its a huge area. I could be wrong though - I don't decide the feature set :)
Personally I use a different application for my notation needs. If I ever needed to work with a score simultaneously I would probably rewire a notation app into SONAR.

Wow - I've been under the impressions, for a long time, that you had a big say in the feature set!  Knowing that you don't means we can enlist your help with features we users want - right? 

Really, it must be your machine as I'm not seeing those problems.

Have you tried re-installing you OS, all your plugins and S1 again?...

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Im sure there would be incremental improvements over time but I doubt that SONAR would ever get close to the realm of what dedicated notation applications do. Its a huge area. I could be wrong though - I don't decide the feature set :)
Personally I use a different application for my notation needs. If I ever needed to work with a score simultaneously I would probably rewire a notation app into SONAR.

Noel,  I think your're missing the point.  No one want's anything like a dedicated notation app.  I'm surpirsed you even said that.  We just need usable notation on par with Cubase, Logic and Protools in order to compose.   I have Sibelius for proper notation.  Why does Cakewalk not get this?

jaydrake


I expanded to Reaper. Haven't used X1 in 2 months.

I am close to the same choice. Still using Sonar 8.5.3 heavily, and NI Maschine standalone as a sketchpad, but demoing Reaper: Its a mess out of the box, but with customizations and extension its pretty killer.

If Sonar X2 isn't pretty killer and rock solid on day one, with focus on well thought through design and robust, tested features -there is a good chance that my 10+ years with Cakewalk will be done. Course by then I may already be converted. :)

D.

panup


Brandon,

I know clip gain & realtime fades have been in SONAR for ages. Purpose of the sentence was to wonder Avid's poker face to implement (and advertise) such things as new features.  Sorry I didn't use smileys.:)  New mighty PT supports Multiple file formats (mono, stereo) in the same project! 
I correct my words: grass is still greener and longer here. PT10 is not 64 bit.

-Panu

Ah - sorry...I thought something was amiss. :-) I should have known better.

Jonbouy

Kreative


At least Cakewalk has a very healthy head start on developing a fully realized product, and has the proven resources of its own staff and Roland corp. I think that's worth a lot in terms of potential and hope. I think that I'll personally be patient, and wait and see what happens before I make any final judgment about the future of Sonar. The alternatives are not necessarily as promising if you go to some of the other user forums and witness the pandemonium there.

This is hilarious.

I notice your join date is August, you obviously missed December through July.  If you did you have no idea what pandemonium actually looks like.

I've been around all the forums for apps that have been released subsequently to X1 and nothing has compared remotely to the issues X1 arrived with and the amount wailing and gnashing of teeth that quite rightly happened as a result, nor anything like the amount of rose-tinted denial from those that had already spent money on it.

Jon, I have trouble understanding this. Are you somehow trying to make SONAR better so you can eventually purchase it and use it? Is your intent to get others to agree with your decision not to upgrade to X1 and stick with 8.5? I see so many time-consuming and derisive posts from you regarding X1 and yet I fail to see the point. I could understand if you paid money for it, hated it/felt duped, and subsequently felt like venting long-term.


But considering you are happily using 8.5 and Reason 6, (and considering Studio One perhaps?) - I just fail to see the productivity or the intended goal in this kind of discourse. This thread is asking about X1 users who didn't upgrade to Expanded...not about why some people hate X1 and why they feel like those that bought it and like it are in "rose tinted denial".


I just can't see how it does anyone any good whatsoever. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be confrontational...I'm just genuinely baffled at the intent.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Jonbouy

Kreative


At least Cakewalk has a very healthy head start on developing a fully realized product, and has the proven resources of its own staff and Roland corp. I think that's worth a lot in terms of potential and hope. I think that I'll personally be patient, and wait and see what happens before I make any final judgment about the future of Sonar. The alternatives are not necessarily as promising if you go to some of the other user forums and witness the pandemonium there.

This is hilarious.

I notice your join date is August, you obviously missed December through July.  If you did you have no idea what pandemonium actually looks like.

I've been around all the forums for apps that have been released subsequently to X1 and nothing has compared remotely to the issues X1 arrived with and the amount wailing and gnashing of teeth that quite rightly happened as a result, nor anything like the amount of rose-tinted denial from those that had already spent money on it.

Jon, I have trouble understanding this. Are you somehow trying to make SONAR better so you can eventually purchase it and use it? Is your intent to get others to agree with your decision not to upgrade to X1 and stick with 8.5? I see so many time-consuming and derisive posts from you regarding X1 and yet I fail to see the point. I could understand if you paid money for it, hated it/felt duped, and subsequently felt like venting long-term.


But considering you are happily using 8.5 and Reason 6, (and considering Studio One perhaps?) - I just fail to see the productivity or the intended goal in this kind of discourse. This thread is asking about X1 users who didn't upgrade to Expanded...not about why some people hate X1 and why they feel like those that bought it and like it are in "rose tinted denial".


I just can't see how it does anyone any good whatsoever. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be confrontational...I'm just genuinely baffled at the intent.

Bingo! On the first sentence.

I've loved Sonar since the start at Version 7 and just today when somebody asked in the Software section which DAW audio engine was the most robust at the lowest latency between Sonar and S1, I of course replied Sonar.

The reason being it is true for straight line low latency performance Sonar works better it also works better for heavily processor intensive mixing in my experience.  I didn't go on to remark on the benefits of gapless audio looping in S1 when tracking, that was pointed out by others I just stuck with the question being asked.

I do feel the company lost it's way providing an upgrade that pretty much overlooked functionality and long standing bugs in an attempt to improve the look of the product, although this may well appeal to newer Sonar users.  The release cycles of Sonar show a characteristic plethora of teething troubles which I didn't want to go through again and boy did I call that right on this one.

There were serious issues with the eStore when I upgraded to 8.5 which and I was pretty much fobbed off after a patient 3 week delay in getting that upgrade as were a list of people contained in a several page thread.  It was a complete fiasco and nobody even admitted to there being a problem, direct communication with the company for me has always proved difficult Customer support requests have gone unanswered so regularly that I stop bothering.  Likewise bug reports although confirmed have never recieved attention.  Again this has led to me taking recourse to venting here.  In fact my dealings with the eStore are the worst of any online company I've dealt with and that is no exaggeration and bear in mind that includes all the UK utility companies and trust me you have some fierce competion there.

At least people like yourself take an interest in that on occasion, although it isn't the recognized way of communicating with the company it seems to have been the only way where I've had even a modicum of success.

To say that I hate X1 isn't the case, I've tried it I've seen others working with it and I've learned there are some actual workflow improvements that do have some merit and pretty much underneath all that it's still the old Sonar I know and love, some of the still extant bugs are a testament to that.  I certainly have no intention of upsetting anybody that is happy with X1 but I will rally against people that think I'm just angry for the sake of it and call me a 'basher' just because I express a genuinely critical point of view which normally incidentally if you were masochistic enough to go back through them you'll notice have some factual validity.

I've stated clearly on numerous occasions that a fix to the existing 32 bit functionality of Rewire would have been enough to see me upgrade, in all honesty it's an update on that little .dll called dewire and yet over 4 major releases it still hasn't been tackled.  But that at least would have shown me as a company you were still mindful of fixing previous broken functionality.  And as you yourself mentioned my ownership of Reason let me tell you I only ever used it as one would a VST via Rewire it has since progressed in functionality to the point where I've become to use it's gapless audio tracking abilities and comping options in preference to the still murky waters of Sonar's layers and unpredicatable behaviour with automation on said layers, not to mention it's ability to seamlessy stretch audio in accordance with the tempo, it ain't my fault that one product has grown and yet another remains at the same level of functionality.  Incidentally the other product you mention was 64 bit Rewire capable when Reason 6 came out even before their V2 launch.

Remember too this thread is another multi-pager mostly comprising of folks that didn't buy into the Expanded fold.  Honestly if you read the posts here are you surprised or did you really think this was a real $50 breakthrough deal?  This is another frustrating aspect there is this precious customer feedback yet it seems the company is almost oblivious at times to what it's customers are actually saying.  Going back to the Propellerheads again customers (forum users) were horrified at the prospect at paying $99 to go to Reason 6 which offered 3 killer new devices and combining the R5 and Record duo that many already had.  So what did they do?  They said OK just pay what you think it's worth.

Not Cakewalk though it just puts spin into overdrive on some existing feature improvements which could easily be argued as being bug fixes to the original intent of X1, throws in a Saturation plug and charges $50 dollars for that.  You'd have surely got more returns by giving the improvements to all X1 producer owners, squash some bugs along the way and be able to sell more $50 modules to every X1 Producer user you have, and regained much of the good will lost over the difficult X1 launch, no?

Yes I love the people I've dealt with here from the company, I love the community here it is still second to none, I love the product of yours that I have but if you think I'm going to stand by and watch the 'Kewl me tooers' blow smoke up your bottoms for so little movement while other companies are making some real serious functional strides then you have another think coming...

I hate seeing a Cakewalk release like Z3ta being kicked to shreds on KVR because it was insufficently tested before release, I was really proud to announce that was I was a Sonar user when I came in a version 7 as there was nothing to touch it as an all-rounder.  I don't expect a comment from you on this of course but you must see yourself how the perception of Cakewalk has changed in that time around all the popular music forums.  Many of the comments I see I don't feel able to defend anymore.

I'm bloody passionate about the company and it's flagship product didn't you realise? 

But thanks for asking...it'll probably calm me down for a few weeks at least having got that load off...