MArwood
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 06:12:31
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I would like to see Benstat's bar on steroids. Docked into the browser. Each icon could be programmed to a task. These should be single click task, but should be multi-click task programmable also (Like a macro recorder)
Max Arwood
"Edited spelling" New Tag line so I won't have to keep typing this. I may or may not have edited this yet, but I probably need to. < Message edited by MArwood -- 3/02/2525 3:45:05 AM >
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Peter Morrison
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 06:35:59
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HumbleNoise
...where you could simply grab the Control Bar and slide it to the side to show any hidden Modules? Seems so obvious and simple.
Great idea
Gear;-4 copper kettles-a large dustbin-a piece of string and a cotter pin. I keep a spring on standby
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 06:53:23
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Good idea but tabbed would be better. In fact I'd like to see the MS ribbon concept used as long as it could be navigated via keyboard/CS keypresses. 
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 08:18:09
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HumbleNoise
mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
...where you could simply grab the Control Bar and slide it to the side to show any hidden Modules? Seems so obvious and simple.
This seems like another idea that trades the immediacy of being able to see everything simultaneously for just another very bad idea smelling of oh-boy-nifty, self indulgent gadgetry.
No, I would not like to see that feature... I would like to see smaller buttons... I would like the option to see all of the buttons at once regardless of screen display size... and I'd like the options to hide any group of buttons I never use.... and I'd like the space used for the buttons to collapse should I have excess space to spare after I set up my preference.
I'd like something just about as smart as the very futuristic control bar we used to have rather than the dark ages, feudalist X1 control bar some people mistake as indicative of the future simply because a chronological time line confuses their ability to think with reason.
all the best,
mike
I disagree Mike. X1 should look and act exactly as I think it should look and act and any ideas to the contrary are simply the cucumber mango relish based ramblings of a star struck gopher unwilling to admit that the world doesn't revolve around its inability and unwillingness to see that its ideas are inherently and obviously inferior to those of us who see the world as it is and should be.
Well there you go Larry... When you finally learn about all the things that SONAR does you MAY actually learn why the folks that do want to get easy access to all the stuff it does... in the mean time you can be satisfied with your jibberish thoughts. I keep saying that Cakewalk should just put all this crap in Essentials for guys like you... and keep making a top grade program for people that want to use all the stuff that SONAR does. Every time I say it a bunch of beginners or low expectation old timers start a Lord of the Flies riot. Cakewalk has figured out that the beginners want to buy the package named "Producer" and that most will simply not buy a package named anything less and so the result is that the top tier package is being ruined to please beginners and turned into a piece of buggy feature smaltzed ka ka. If guys like you could handle the truth and simply identify the fact that you want an enhanced beginners package it would let the full feature users get their package and then you wouldn't have to reveal that when the chips are down all you are prepared to contribute to the future of the potential of a DAW is the type of gibberish you just wrote. I'm watching the de evolution of what was nearly the very best DAW on the planet while guys like you applaud the event because you are too inexperienced to recognize it. You make the wild assumption that you are on a train to the future and I am a curmudgeon... but I've seen the future enough times to recognize devo when it's happening. The truth is, it is likely that I've forgotten more about audio production than you are ever likely to learn and while I don't make a big deal about that fact every now and then somebody has to point out the obvious. One thing that is woefully obvious... and I doubt you've been around long enough to know anything about it... is that the extra large crew of serious recordists that used to hang out here are gone... and it's not because the forum is unpleasant... it's because Cakewalk and SONAR has abandoned the needs of full featured users and they are no longer waiting to see that the potential of SONAR will never be realized if Cakewalk keeps forcing it's full feature customers to have to tolerate a focus on beginning users in the top tier package. One of the very reasons you keep coming up this bull hockey about the all about me stuff is that all the other people that wanted to see SONAR become a fully realized DAW are simply gone... they have left the building... and you do not even know that they existed so you think it is cool to twist my words and talk bull hockey to me... because you seem to think I am the only person that feels the way I do. I understand why you do this... because it is the easy way for you to think you understand what is going on. It's more like I'm one of the few guys who can tell you the truth and move along with out it ruining my day... the other guys just abandoned the hope because dealing with beginners who are applauding the de evolution of a great DAW is more than they can bear witness too. You can't handle the truth. So, unfortunately you resort to the delusions and gibberish you are comfortable with. Other than that... you seem like a nice enough guy. best regards, mike
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Lynn
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 10:34:50
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mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
...where you could simply grab the Control Bar and slide it to the side to show any hidden Modules? Seems so obvious and simple.
This seems like another idea that trades the immediacy of being able to see everything simultaneously for just another very bad idea smelling of oh-boy-nifty, self indulgent gadgetry.
No, I would not like to see that feature... I would like to see smaller buttons... I would like the option to see all of the buttons at once regardless of screen display size... and I'd like the options to hide any group of buttons I never use.... and I'd like the space used for the buttons to collapse should I have excess space to spare after I set up my preference.
I'd like something just about as smart as the very futuristic control bar we used to have rather than the dark ages, feudalist X1 control bar some people mistake as indicative of the future simply because a chronological time line confuses their ability to think with reason.
all the best,
mike
I disagree Mike. X1 should look and act exactly as I think it should look and act and any ideas to the contrary are simply the cucumber mango relish based ramblings of a star struck gopher unwilling to admit that the world doesn't revolve around its inability and unwillingness to see that its ideas are inherently and obviously inferior to those of us who see the world as it is and should be.
Well there you go Larry...
When you finally learn about all the things that SONAR does you MAY actually learn why the folks that do want to get easy access to all the stuff it does... in the mean time you can be satisfied with your jibberish thoughts.
I keep saying that Cakewalk should just put all this crap in Essentials for guys like you... and keep making a top grade program for people that want to use all the stuff that SONAR does.
Every time I say it a bunch of beginners or low expectation old timers start a Lord of the Flies riot.
Cakewalk has figured out that the beginners want to buy the package named "Producer" and that most will simply not buy a package named anything less and so the result is that the top tier package is being ruined to please beginners and turned into a piece of buggy feature smaltzed ka ka.
If guys like you could handle the truth and simply identify the fact that you want an enhanced beginners package it would let the full feature users get their package and then you wouldn't have to reveal that when the chips are down all you are prepared to contribute to the future of the potential of a DAW is the type of gibberish you just wrote.
I'm watching the de evolution of what was nearly the very best DAW on the planet while guys like you applaud the event because you are too inexperienced to recognize it. You make the wild assumption that you are on a train to the future and I am a curmudgeon... but I've seen the future enough times to recognize devo when it's happening.
The truth is, it is likely that I've forgotten more about audio production than you are ever likely to learn and while I don't make a big deal about that fact every now and then somebody has to point out the obvious.
One thing that is woefully obvious... and I doubt you've been around long enough to know anything about it... is that the extra large crew of serious recordists that used to hang out here are gone... and it's not because the forum is unpleasant... it's because Cakewalk and SONAR has abandoned the needs of full featured users and they are no longer waiting to see that the potential of SONAR will never be realized if Cakewalk keeps forcing it's full feature customers to have to tolerate a focus on beginning users in the top tier package.
One of the very reasons you keep coming up this bull hockey about the all about me stuff is that all the other people that wanted to see SONAR become a fully realized DAW are simply gone... they have left the building... and you do not even know that they existed so you think it is cool to twist my words and talk bull hockey to me... because you seem to think I am the only person that feels the way I do. I understand why you do this... because it is the easy way for you to think you understand what is going on.
It's more like I'm one of the few guys who can tell you the truth and move along with out it ruining my day... the other guys just abandoned the hope because dealing with beginners who are applauding the de evolution of a great DAW is more than they can bear witness too.
You can't handle the truth.
So, unfortunately you resort to the delusions and gibberish you are comfortable with.
Other than that... you seem like a nice enough guy.
best regards,
mike
Mike, I think many of us agree that CW left a few ingredients out of the mix in this version. I miss some of the features and MO of past versions, too. I do, however, see the value in Larry's suggestion. Regardless of whether CW is catering to beginners or veterans, this is what we have at the present. Maybe I'm missing some tongue in cheek humor here, but it seems like there's oh so much blah, blah, blah going on here for the topic. I hope that X1b comes out next week so that we can change the discourse here. You all have a good weekend.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 10:41:23
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Hi Lynn,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
best regards,
mike
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 10:58:26
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Mike you're correct about my ineptitude and lack of audio knowledge but there is more than one version of 'the truth.' You're entitled to yours, but remember the thread was started by a simple and maybe not that great (as I stated in another post here) of an idea about the control bar. It was just an idea.
I don't think we're going to change the horrible new direction that Cakewalk has decided to go in but we can try and make it better. And perhaps all the great audio guys have left the software and the devolution of a great piece of software is indeed near completion. I'll take responsibility for that, and apologize, and applaud Cakewalk's new and mis-guided direction and can only hope that the Bakers will bring back some of the features and/or accessibility that will keep the great audio minds like yours around.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 11:55:56
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mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
...where you could simply grab the Control Bar and slide it to the side to show any hidden Modules? Seems so obvious and simple.
This seems like another idea that trades the immediacy of being able to see everything simultaneously for just another very bad idea smelling of oh-boy-nifty, self indulgent gadgetry.
No, I would not like to see that feature... I would like to see smaller buttons... I would like the option to see all of the buttons at once regardless of screen display size... and I'd like the options to hide any group of buttons I never use.... and I'd like the space used for the buttons to collapse should I have excess space to spare after I set up my preference.
I'd like something just about as smart as the very futuristic control bar we used to have rather than the dark ages, feudalist X1 control bar some people mistake as indicative of the future simply because a chronological time line confuses their ability to think with reason.
all the best,
mike
I disagree Mike. X1 should look and act exactly as I think it should look and act and any ideas to the contrary are simply the cucumber mango relish based ramblings of a star struck gopher unwilling to admit that the world doesn't revolve around its inability and unwillingness to see that its ideas are inherently and obviously inferior to those of us who see the world as it is and should be.
Well there you go Larry...
When you finally learn about all the things that SONAR does you MAY actually learn why the folks that do want to get easy access to all the stuff it does... in the mean time you can be satisfied with your jibberish thoughts.
I keep saying that Cakewalk should just put all this crap in Essentials for guys like you... and keep making a top grade program for people that want to use all the stuff that SONAR does.
Every time I say it a bunch of beginners or low expectation old timers start a Lord of the Flies riot.
Cakewalk has figured out that the beginners want to buy the package named "Producer" and that most will simply not buy a package named anything less and so the result is that the top tier package is being ruined to please beginners and turned into a piece of buggy feature smaltzed ka ka.
If guys like you could handle the truth and simply identify the fact that you want an enhanced beginners package it would let the full feature users get their package and then you wouldn't have to reveal that when the chips are down all you are prepared to contribute to the future of the potential of a DAW is the type of gibberish you just wrote.
I'm watching the de evolution of what was nearly the very best DAW on the planet while guys like you applaud the event because you are too inexperienced to recognize it. You make the wild assumption that you are on a train to the future and I am a curmudgeon... but I've seen the future enough times to recognize devo when it's happening.
The truth is, it is likely that I've forgotten more about audio production than you are ever likely to learn and while I don't make a big deal about that fact every now and then somebody has to point out the obvious.
One thing that is woefully obvious... and I doubt you've been around long enough to know anything about it... is that the extra large crew of serious recordists that used to hang out here are gone... and it's not because the forum is unpleasant... it's because Cakewalk and SONAR has abandoned the needs of full featured users and they are no longer waiting to see that the potential of SONAR will never be realized if Cakewalk keeps forcing it's full feature customers to have to tolerate a focus on beginning users in the top tier package.
One of the very reasons you keep coming up this bull hockey about the all about me stuff is that all the other people that wanted to see SONAR become a fully realized DAW are simply gone... they have left the building... and you do not even know that they existed so you think it is cool to twist my words and talk bull hockey to me... because you seem to think I am the only person that feels the way I do. I understand why you do this... because it is the easy way for you to think you understand what is going on.
It's more like I'm one of the few guys who can tell you the truth and move along with out it ruining my day... the other guys just abandoned the hope because dealing with beginners who are applauding the de evolution of a great DAW is more than they can bear witness too.
You can't handle the truth.
So, unfortunately you resort to the delusions and gibberish you are comfortable with.
Other than that... you seem like a nice enough guy.
best regards,
mike
Or maybe some of us amateur/beginner/know nothing trash that use programs we're not supposed to and clog up the forums that are inundated with your fellow 'pros' could see the limitations of the old interface. Is X1 perfect? No. Is it a great base to build on? Yes. All in the humble opinion of a know nothing piece of trash of course. PS. I didn't realise you knew Humblenoise personally, which obviously you must to be able to pass such judgements. I sometimes see some great posts from you mike_mccue but sometimes you post some of the biggest pieces of tripe I've ever seen too. Then again I know nothing so feel free to ignore or rubbish me. All IMHO signed Karl aged 2 & 1/2 
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ba_midi
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 12:22:30
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cornieleous
ba_midi
HumbleNoise
Would it really work though? dke brings up a point. Let's say I want to see a couple of modules that are off the screen to the right. I slide the CB over to the left and my transport is now gone or at least in a new enough place to make it a PIA to locate quickly gone.
Though it would be good to quickly get to an off screen module then back to the normal CB. I think I just hate the machinations now needed to get to those extra off screen modules and it would much easier to slide it over.
Well, if any module was floatable, that would solve that. Oh wait ... that would be more like 8.5.3 and the users wouldn't want that now, would they?
LOL
Hey...get outta there!
Haha :P
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ba_midi
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 12:40:44
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Funny how these threads always turn into something other than what they were started as .... But there's an old saying "Out of the mouths of babes (babies) may come some wisdom". Well, I don't think I could ever say what Mr. Mc Cue did in the way he did, but in reading what he wrote I can't say I disagree with some of it. NOT the personal stuff about Larry, but the observations about CW, it's product, and the forum. This forum HAS changed. Many really solid people either don't participate or grew weary of it and participate a lot less. I find myself doing likewise. I don't like when it gets personal, so shame on you Mike Mc Cue for not being able to say what you want to Larry without turning it into a demeaning result. BUT, I can't say I don't agree about the way the top-tier product has been handled. There are features many miss in the new DAW 2.0 approach that existed in the pre DAW 2.0 world. That is not to say that some of the new features aren't worthy or thought-out, but the Control Bar (topic of THIS thread) certainly reduced availability of things I used all the time previously (Event Inspector). Yes I/we know it's in there ... but not readily accessible without giving something else up. So I see this thread as useful indeed, but I also know that I see those who may not have used or use Sonar 'deep' are just starting to see/feel a need for that now. Almost like there's an "awakening" in that regard. Designing software to meet the needs of the many is not an easy thing, I understand that. But reducing functionality IS an easy thing, it seems. Anyway - I hope we can back down the personal stuff in this and other threads. Talk about issues, not each other please please please.
post edited by ba_midi - 2011/03/19 12:45:06
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 12:47:12
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I think Larry and I are getting along just fine. He's a really nice guy.... but I thought the "mangoes" gibberish reply to my original reply to his OP was worthy of me speaking my mind. We've both spoken our minds and I still admire the fact that Larry is a awfully nice guy. I wanted to reply and let him know that but opted to accord him the opportunity to have the last word. You all can think what ever you wish... I'll probably need to find a full featured DAW sometime soon and then you all can have the place to yourselves. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/03/19 12:49:21
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John
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 12:59:17
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I'll probably need to find a full featured DAW sometime soon and then you all can have the place to yourselves. That would be an excellent idea Mike. You went over the line in this thread. It did nothing to diminish Larry but it went a long way in diminishing you.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:00:42
(permalink)
FastBikerBoy
mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
mike_mccue
HumbleNoise
...where you could simply grab the Control Bar and slide it to the side to show any hidden Modules? Seems so obvious and simple.
This seems like another idea that trades the immediacy of being able to see everything simultaneously for just another very bad idea smelling of oh-boy-nifty, self indulgent gadgetry.
No, I would not like to see that feature... I would like to see smaller buttons... I would like the option to see all of the buttons at once regardless of screen display size... and I'd like the options to hide any group of buttons I never use.... and I'd like the space used for the buttons to collapse should I have excess space to spare after I set up my preference.
I'd like something just about as smart as the very futuristic control bar we used to have rather than the dark ages, feudalist X1 control bar some people mistake as indicative of the future simply because a chronological time line confuses their ability to think with reason.
all the best,
mike
I disagree Mike. X1 should look and act exactly as I think it should look and act and any ideas to the contrary are simply the cucumber mango relish based ramblings of a star struck gopher unwilling to admit that the world doesn't revolve around its inability and unwillingness to see that its ideas are inherently and obviously inferior to those of us who see the world as it is and should be.
Well there you go Larry...
When you finally learn about all the things that SONAR does you MAY actually learn why the folks that do want to get easy access to all the stuff it does... in the mean time you can be satisfied with your jibberish thoughts.
I keep saying that Cakewalk should just put all this crap in Essentials for guys like you... and keep making a top grade program for people that want to use all the stuff that SONAR does.
Every time I say it a bunch of beginners or low expectation old timers start a Lord of the Flies riot.
Cakewalk has figured out that the beginners want to buy the package named "Producer" and that most will simply not buy a package named anything less and so the result is that the top tier package is being ruined to please beginners and turned into a piece of buggy feature smaltzed ka ka.
If guys like you could handle the truth and simply identify the fact that you want an enhanced beginners package it would let the full feature users get their package and then you wouldn't have to reveal that when the chips are down all you are prepared to contribute to the future of the potential of a DAW is the type of gibberish you just wrote.
I'm watching the de evolution of what was nearly the very best DAW on the planet while guys like you applaud the event because you are too inexperienced to recognize it. You make the wild assumption that you are on a train to the future and I am a curmudgeon... but I've seen the future enough times to recognize devo when it's happening.
The truth is, it is likely that I've forgotten more about audio production than you are ever likely to learn and while I don't make a big deal about that fact every now and then somebody has to point out the obvious.
One thing that is woefully obvious... and I doubt you've been around long enough to know anything about it... is that the extra large crew of serious recordists that used to hang out here are gone... and it's not because the forum is unpleasant... it's because Cakewalk and SONAR has abandoned the needs of full featured users and they are no longer waiting to see that the potential of SONAR will never be realized if Cakewalk keeps forcing it's full feature customers to have to tolerate a focus on beginning users in the top tier package.
One of the very reasons you keep coming up this bull hockey about the all about me stuff is that all the other people that wanted to see SONAR become a fully realized DAW are simply gone... they have left the building... and you do not even know that they existed so you think it is cool to twist my words and talk bull hockey to me... because you seem to think I am the only person that feels the way I do. I understand why you do this... because it is the easy way for you to think you understand what is going on.
It's more like I'm one of the few guys who can tell you the truth and move along with out it ruining my day... the other guys just abandoned the hope because dealing with beginners who are applauding the de evolution of a great DAW is more than they can bear witness too.
You can't handle the truth.
So, unfortunately you resort to the delusions and gibberish you are comfortable with.
Other than that... you seem like a nice enough guy.
best regards,
mike
Or maybe some of us amateur/beginner/know nothing trash that use programs we're not supposed to and clog up the forums that are inundated with your fellow 'pros' could see the limitations of the old interface.
Is X1 perfect? No. Is it a great base to build on? Yes. All in the humble opinion of a know nothing piece of trash of course.
PS. I didn't realise you knew Humblenoise personally, which obviously you must to be able to pass such judgements.
I sometimes see some great posts from you mike_mccue but sometimes you post some of the biggest pieces of tripe I've ever seen too. Then again I know nothing so feel free to ignore or rubbish me.
All IMHO
signed
Karl aged 2 & 1/2
Why can't you just do what you do and enjoy it and stop acting like you are being crucified. I'm proud to know you as a person and colleague... you are also an awfully nice guy. You're the one jumping on the awkward grenade and placing a "Mr. your words not mine" valor award in your signature. I could care less how little of SONAR you use... until you start advocating for hiding controls I want immediate access too. all the best, mike
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:02:41
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John
I'll probably need to find a full featured DAW sometime soon and then you all can have the place to yourselves.
That would be an excellent idea Mike. You went over the line in this thread. It did nothing to diminish Larry but it went a long way in diminishing you.
You probably know how I feel about your input on this subject John. No need for me to upset Billy further.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:10:52
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I could care less how little of SONAR you use... until you start advocating for hiding controls I want immediate access too.
If you read the thread Mike I didn't advocate hiding controls. I think the CB although fine in idea is lacking in practicality in that large parts of it aren't visible never mind easily accessible. I stated elsewhere that I would like to see something similar to the ribbon in MS software. Hated by some I know but at least you can get to it. I'd also like keyboard shortcut control over whatever method they use including the one good part of the CB - the ability to hide it instantly. That was lacking in 8.5 as well. I thought you had the intellect to run an argument without making personal slurs, hence my post.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:11:07
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This thread is about an idea to scroll/move the Control Bar sideways. Any diversion from that issue does indeed distract from the thread topic. But staying focused on such things as the topic of a thread is an art form, and not easily mastered, as this forum so often illustrates. Personal attacks are simply a lapse in that ability to stay focused IMO. Again, not easy.
From my admittedly unlearned position as a beginner in all things audio I indeed do not see all the problems and inadequacies of X1a and find it pretty useful. Sonar has lost some users and will gain some users because of their decisions and everyone will find the place and DAW (and forum for that matter) they are most comfortable with.
Will the Control Bar be the straw that breaks the back of those users leaving Sonar? Probably that and combination of things but suggesting an idea to change its functionality should hardly evoke the kind of thread that this one has devolved into.
The more I think about it, the original idea isn't that great and there's a thousand ways to say as much AND stay constructive and helpful. That's what I'll try and do.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:14:58
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I can't imagine the Bakers being finished with the Control Bar and wonder what they have up their sleeves - and when they will show their cards.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:23:39
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HumbleNoise
This thread is about an idea to scroll/move the Control Bar sideways. Any diversion from that issue does indeed distract from the thread topic. But staying focused on such things as the topic of a thread is an art form, and not easily mastered, as this forum so often illustrates. Personal attacks are simply a lapse in that ability to stay focused IMO. Again, not easy.
From my admittedly unlearned position as a beginner in all things audio I indeed do not see all the problems and inadequacies of X1a and find it pretty useful. Sonar has lost some users and will gain some users because of their decisions and everyone will find the place and DAW (and forum for that matter) they are most comfortable with.
Will the Control Bar be the straw that breaks the back of those users leaving Sonar? Probably that and combination of things but suggesting an idea to change its functionality should hardly evoke the kind of thread that this one has devolved into.
The more I think about it, the original idea isn't that great and there's a thousand ways to say as much AND stay constructive and helpful. That's what I'll try and do.
Larry, I think there can be alternate ways to manage the Control Bar (FBB suggests one, as example), and all that would be good. I'll give you my perspective on all this (not the personal attacks, but the concepts in X1) ... There definitely are things I like and want to use when it's fully baked (X1B and onward I hope). BUT, there are definitely things I feel lacking because they existed before and are either moved to illogical places or hard to get to. Again I mention the "Event Inspector" (not to be confused with the "Inspector"). So when I first start to tinker with X1 I said to myself ... "Ugh, this is like Windows 7 where they moved/changed the menus just so they could say they did something different and call it [new]". For those who consider themselves (and generally are) Power Users, there's no doubt we've seen some outcry there. I join in that. And that is NOT to diss the good things added in X1. Good is good. Not so good is not so good ;) BUT I also said to myself .. " Oh well, I'll adjust." I don't mean adjust in the sense I would have to get out of a comfort zone. I don't mind doing that, frankly. This last few months alone I have tried a number of other products without hesitation or fear of learning something new; and I'm constantly diving in with new plugins and reading stacks of manuals as a normal course of business for me. So with respect to the Control Bar ... I'm glad you raised the issue (though it has been brought up lightly before). It's not much different than the outcry about not having more color options or customization options. Some of those things are obviously the result of CW taking a new direction for Sonar and not wanting to load it up with too many things that could cause too many new bugs (gulp) and we might see those things appear slowly as X1 moves forward. The cautiousness about bugs, if that was the plan, didn't work out too well as we know  But my point is ... I did feel there were things being given up that, without knowing if they would be brought back later, made me somewhat "blah" about it. If you have an item called a " CONTROL BAR" that seems to take away some control, that's illogical, no? So I definitely would like to see SOME enhancement to it in SOME way that gives both power users and casual users "flexibility".
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:26:36
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Hi Larry,
Regarding your original post, here is my reply expressing my personal opinion on the subject:
This seems like another idea that trades the immediacy of being able to see everything simultaneously for just another very bad idea smelling of oh-boy-nifty, self indulgent gadgetry.
No, I would not like to see that feature... I would like to see smaller buttons... I would like the option to see all of the buttons at once regardless of screen display size... and I'd like the options to hide any group of buttons I never use.... and I'd like the space used for the buttons to collapse should I have excess space to spare after I set up my preference.
I'd like something just about as smart as the very futuristic control bar we used to have rather than the dark ages, feudalist X1 control bar some people mistake as indicative of the future simply because a chronological time line confuses their ability to think with reason.
best regards,
mike
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:37:59
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Here's a thought. If the icons were slightly smaller or scalable even, the modules customizable and tabbable (is that a word?) into a users order that would be an improvement wouldn't it? Surely that can't be that hard to implement on the existing CB.
I personally don't like the small icon type so a return to 8.5 style would be a step backward IMHO. Even that method couldn't show every function in a usable compact format, if that's what a user wanted, so I think a continuation of that format would be pointless.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:43:48
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"Here's a thought. If the icons were slightly smaller or scalable even, the modules customizable and tabbable (is that a word?) into a users order that would be an improvement wouldn't it? Surely that can't be that hard to implement on the existing CB."
Excellent ideas!
"I personally don't like the small icon type so a return to 8.5 style would be a step backward IMHO"
I thought you have said repeatedly that you hide the control bar and just use custom keystrokes? Why would it matter to you? In any event it seems like scalable graphics would make it possible to help everyone do what they think they need.
all the best,
mike
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ba_midi
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:46:23
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FastBikerBoy
Here's a thought. If the icons were slightly smaller or scalable even, the modules customizable and tabbable (is that a word?) into a users order that would be an improvement wouldn't it? Surely that can't be that hard to implement on the existing CB.
I personally don't like the small icon type so a return to 8.5 style would be a step backward IMHO. Even that method couldn't show every function in a usable compact format, if that's what a user wanted, so I think a continuation of that format would be pointless.
Karl I think there's rooom for improvement/enhancement. I don't know what the right/best way is, but I know some great designer people could come up with ideas. I do think even 'as is,' just making the icons a bit smaller would help. Example: By making smaller numbers in the "screenset" module, they could probably fit ALL 10 there without much pain to anyone. I can't imagine anyone not wanting access to all 10 sets in one module (though I have been wrong before lol). In 8.x and even prior version, one has control over what icons one wanted, so clutter was up to the user so to speak. I prefer the idea of a "control bar," however -- if it is flexible enough to give ME control ;)
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 13:49:28
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I think making it scalable to any display screen is a good first step.
In the age of 1920x1080 becoming a near standard for desktop display... there will continue to be an emerging user group that enjoys working on a laptop and it will be a long while before we can expect all but a few laptops to have that sort of resolution.
best regards,
mike
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 14:03:40
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I thought you have said repeatedly that you hide the control bar and just use custom keystrokes? Why would it matter to you? In any event it seems like scalable graphics would make it possible to help everyone do what they think they need.
I do hide the CB most of the time and much prefer keystrokes. The only problem(s) with that approach is one, that eventually I start to run out of easily accessible keystrokes especially as some menu items/features are no longer accessible via my MCU so that places more onto my qwerty keyboard. An ideal solution for me would be a tabbed view that is keyboard controllable and instantly hideable, like it currently is. The tabs could then work something like the tabbed view in the multidock where switching is instant an not 'in focus' view dependable. That would work very well for me. The second 'problem' I have to use the CB is for the information it displays. Perhaps another optional and customizable bar or floating window could cover that. There's lots of info I need to know that is only available in the CB. Snap to setting, current screenset, whether I'm sending MIDI start/stop messages, metronome settings, etc. etc. There's lots of examples I could name but you get the idea. I'd also like to see some sort of indicator as to whether a screenset is currently locked or not. I've found no ideal way with the current CB. My SOP at the moment is CB at the bottom and usually hidden but it is far from ideal for my working method
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 14:04:36
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As I posted in another thread I only regularly use a couple of the modules but want access to them all with a quick (insert your favorite method, click, keystroke etc. here). The transport, the looping function, the Now Time are the only ones I regulary use but I want quick access to the event module, the punch in module and sometime the performance module. All users will, of course, use it differently but what would it look like if you only wanted two or three modules always visible with quick access to others? (Oh Yeah forgot Screen Sets but I almost never access them from the CB.) Having only 3 modules up there (or down there FBB) would be silly, so where do they go? And how do you access the others quickly?
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/03/19 14:06:51
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 14:06:49
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I've always liked the ability to customize the toolbar buttons to show/hide buttons at users' preference. So I think that's a great idea to return to, but a scrolling CB is better than what we currently have, so I'm all for it. EDIT: And I mean there was a larger availability of functions to show/hide on the Toolbars than what's available on the current CB.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/03/19 14:16:49
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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UnderTow
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 16:34:11
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FastBikerBoy
I personally don't like the small icon type so a return to 8.5 style would be a step backward IMHO. Even that method couldn't show every function in a usable compact format, if that's what a user wanted, so I think a continuation of that format would be pointless.
Just for the record, you can have every single toolbar module enabled in 8.5, including placing the fully expanded Transport up there in some free space, and the start of the very first track in the Track View is higher than in Sonar X1. This includes a lot of redundancy as stuff is doubled: Loop, Punch, Marker, Tempo and Transport modules are also in the big Transport. (It looks very ugly of course but that is another issue). In other words, X1's Control Bar, in combination with the general layout changes, ALWAYS uses more space and can't even show all the modules. I personally think way too much space is wasted in the Control Bar and way too much consideration is given to new users. For instance naming the modules might be useful when you first encounter X1 but after a couple of weeks of use, those names are a waste of space forever after. (It is like it was designed for the eternal newbie). So here are some quick and dirty ideas. They are not fully fleshed out or anything. Just food for thought. - Combine the Move and Select Tool into a Grab Tool. (I'll keep on banging on that drum until something is done about it.  ) - Remove the SONAR X1 test. A complete waste of space. - Make the buttons a touch smaller. (It doesn't have to be much). (- Move the Default Note Length button to the Snap Module) - Remove the Draggable thing under the Transport Buttons. (Who uses that anyway)? - Move the transport buttons under the Edit Tools. (And put them beside the Now Time). - The Now Time window can be a bit smaller. (Move the Power and Panic buttons to the Mix Module and then see below). - Combine the Selection and Loop Modules. - Reduce the sizes of the buttons in the Selection and loop modules ans move them to right beside the times. (Where there is now a completely useless graphic that does nothing). - Move all the Mix Module functionality to the top of the Track View beside the Timer. (Move the Track Control Selector to back below where there is unused space). - Remove the Performance bars for disk space and memory usage. A simple percentage should suffice. (You never really need more than a percentage. These things are not in continual flux like the CPU meters which strangely got much less space allotted to them...) Are we there yet? Will everything fit already? - Add a low-height mode with simple small buttons and text. - Make every Module floatable. Well as I said... just some ideas... The problem I see with a scrollable Control Bar is that a scrollbar uses space... You need something to indicate clearly that it is scrollable. (Remember most of the design choices for the CB are based on making things abundantly obvious to new X1 users. Anything that obfuscates functions renders the whole exercise pointless). UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 16:38:50
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FastBikerBoy
An ideal solution for me would be a tabbed view that is keyboard controllable and instantly hideable, like it currently is. The tabs could then work something like the tabbed view in the multidock where switching is instant an not 'in focus' view dependable. That would work very well for me.
Come on, just tell us what you really want: You want it to be part of Screensets! Actually that is the kind of thing I would expect to be part of ScreenSets. At least as an option... I find some of the design decisions for X1 utterly bizarre and contradictory. UnderTow
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metal_bassist
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 16:39:53
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I would like to see a tabbed control bar with modules that pop up with lots of detail and control when performing a mouseover!
DAW: SX3ePE / Win8.1pro x64 / i7-4770K / Z97 Extreme6 / 16GB G.Skill DDR1600 / Samsung XP941 / Intel 730 240GB Audio Drive / Kingston V300 Series SSD x2 / Hitachi 2TB ext (Backups) / EVGA GeForce 1GB GTX460 SE Mixer n Monitors: Presonus SL16.4.2/JBL LSR4326/M-Audio BX8a Keyboards: Korg Kronos73 Pedals: POD H500X/POD X3 Live/TC VL2 Basses: Tobias Growler 5/Tune TWX5 & TWB43 Guitars: Line6 JTV89F/Ovation El Ac Gtr Mics: SP C1/SM58/other mics Drums: Alesis DM10 StudioKit w/ AD2 & Superior Drummer 2.4
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A1MixMan
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Re:Who Would Like To See A Sideways Scrollable/Moveable Control Bar...?
2011/03/19 16:42:31
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HumbleNoise
Would it really work though? dke brings up a point. Let's say I want to see a couple of modules that are off the screen to the right. I slide the CB over to the left and my transport is now gone or at least in a new enough place to make it a PIA to locate quickly gone.
Though it would be good to quickly get to an off screen module then back to the normal CB. I think I just hate the machinations now needed to get to those extra off screen modules and it would much easier to slide it over.
You just need to think outside the box for this to work. Simple solution really. Just provide a checkmark to lock or unlock each module. Locked modules don't scroll, unlocked models do. Keep all of the locked modules on the left (or right) side and the unlocked on the other side. Click the Control Bar and then scroll with the middle mouse wheel. Easy, elegant, quick, & cool. I like it!
post edited by A1MixMan - 2011/03/19 16:47:27
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