Helpful ReplyWho here has done music full time?

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Dragon Warrior
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/10 16:09:33 (permalink)
I have never been able to play music fulltime for a living but it has always been a source of income for me. I think if I lived in a larger area I might be able to support myself fulltime or if I was a bit more aggressive in looking for work that is music related. Bands always seem to blow up for one reason or another. The last one I was in folded when the bass player went off to a performing arts school and never returned to the area . Can't say I blame him as a very famous and renowned bass player/producer has taken him under his wing and his new band is likely to get signed sometime in the near future. I'm glad for him as he is half my age and I'm not sure I could handle being on the road fulltime unless it was really going somewhere with lots of $$$.
 
I have sung for governors and presidential candidates with a vocal group I used to front. Done a movie soundtrack and getting ready to do another. Played the usual places and done the usual things that most bands do from backyard parties to gigs of all sorts. These days I am happy to play in church every week and looking forward to doing some more movies. Sitting in a theater and hearing my music was about the biggest thrill I have ever had musically.
 
Good thread. Enjoyed reading everyone's stories. Keep 'em comin'!
#31
Jeff Evans
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/10 17:33:53 (permalink)
I have been playing drums since 1970 but for ten years (70's) I also worked full time as an electronics engineer. But I resigned from all that (at much opposition from my parents!) in 1980. I have been working full time in the music business since then to this very day so that means for the last 33 years!
 
I still played drums full time but also setup my very first electronic music studio in 1980. While I was playing drums I also taught myself music by copying people like Jean Michelle Jarre. For 5 years I had no idea what Music theory was all about but produced music and soundtracks by listening and copying. eg using my ears to figure out what was going on. I did a lot of listening on a serious Hi Fi setup too during this period. I played a variety of styles on drums through 1980 to 1985 which included very loud high energy rock to country music and everything else in between. (played with Frank Gambale a lot during this time as we both lived in Canberra. I have been very fortunate in that I have been lucky enough to play with some very great live players) In the early 80's I hooked up with photographers and we started producing audio visuals. The correct term then for multi projector setups. I started doing soundtracks for those.
 
From 1980 to 1983 all I had was a four track and a two track machine. I really learned the art of making a four track work!
 
Around 1985 I studied a Bachelor of Jazz and drums were my major but we had to take a second instrument so keyboard was mine. (best thing I ever did) It was a three year course full time and we had to do a one year prep course before hand as well. During this time I continued playing drums and started composing music for television and films. I used to go into the post audio sessions and made sure the music cues were all in the right place. It was here I developed an interest in producing audio for TV and became skilled at that. I have done a lot of work mixing music dialogue and effects etc..I have also done lots of location audio work too for TV and film recording dialogue and sound effects etc...I have also composed a lot of music for dance, dramatic theatre and puppetry. I started producing sound effects for theatre in the 70's and have been involved with theatre in some capacity ever since. Theatre is very good. I have also performed live to silent movies too. The biggest being 'Metropolis' (the full 2 1/2 hour version by Fritz Lang and running at the correct speed too 18 fps. My biggest achievement I think was doing the soundtrack for a puppetry piece called 'Wake Baby' which toured the world and ended up on Broadway for three weeks. My soundtrack was LOUD and got rave reviews in the US)
 
Also during that time I also started producing local artists. They were handing out grants but there was no studio around to do the recording so I setup and got a lot of that work. That is where I cut my teeth producing other artists.
 
In 1983 I got the Atari and used a Steinberg Midex expander to give it 5 midi outs and it had SMPTE timecode. For the next 15 years I used the Atari locked to one track of an 8 track so I had 7 audio tracks plus the midi system which by this time was massive eg a room full of synths. (53 at the largest setup)  I mixed all of them live to a stereo. I still have every 8 track master and two track master (and the tape machines too) from that period. (Amazing raw materials for today's production!)
 
Still producing music full time of course right through the 90's right up to today. I switched to a computer in 1998 with Logic running on a PC and used that right up to 2008 when I got a much better machine and switched to Sonar 8.5 and now Studio One. (The reason I know what I am talking about re Studio One is that I have been using it every day all day for the last two and half years) Sonar allowed me to get rid of a lot the synth hardware and then I really got into virtual instruments. (I recently got a new Kurzweil PC3K and it seriously sounds better than anything I have ever owned previously, fact! You only need one keyboard and this is it!) Also I really know the meaning of time deadlines and having to get work done in very specific time periods and under serious pressure. (This really tests the software you are using and Studio One excels in this area, ie never crashes no matter what you do. Other programs cannot boast the same)
 
I have never given up producing music fulltime from 1980 right up to today. It has been hard and there have been some lean times but it is all I have ever known and done. I have got a very supportive wife and that really helps! It is possible, you just have to believe in yourself and keep on doing it. I am very happy to say that now my setup is the best it has ever been and the quality of what I am doing now has been the highest it has also ever been. Some of the work I am doing right now is the best work I have ever done in my life. I think it is important to be striving upward in this manner and not leveling out so to speak.  I got teaching work teaching sound engineering and have done that for 9 years now but that was only secondary to the music production though.
 
I still play drums and have also never stopped doing gigs either. The latest thing for me is a tribute show featuring Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison and Elvis and the band is a very class act that is for sure. The front guys are pretty good too. I have been playing Sonor drums since 1980 as well and they still sound amazing to this day. I have also been doing a lot of live mixing work for other bands in the last 10 years or so and doing a lot of that lately. (The PA's today are LOUD!!but I like it though)
 
That dog in my avatar has been with me for the last 15 years every day curled up in the studio listening to everything I have done but alas she has passed now very recently which has a bit sad. (Beeps will be sad I know!)

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#32
bitflipper
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/10 17:39:05 (permalink)
batsbrew
i did it full time, from the middle of 1980, to september of 1986.
almost 6 years.
i lived on the road, and played mostly 6 nights a week, 5 hours a night, from town to town.

 
Almost my exact same story, just a few years earlier: 1972 - 1980. Disco killed it for me. 
 
That, and a growing hatred of driving, always driving. The better-paying the gig, the further away it was. So many nights being exhausted from a gig but having to pack up after, then drive all night, and  sometimes having to immediately set up on arrival, wolf down a burger and go right onstage again.
 
I had good chops back then, though. A couple thousand gigs does do that for you, I have to admit.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#33
craigb
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/10 23:11:45 (permalink)


 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#34
Danny Danzi
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 02:49:56 (permalink)
craigb
Hey, can you guys play Freebird



Man, I guess I never realized how popular that song was until I noticed everyone would always ask for it. My first tour out, I started in England and thought for sure I'd heard the last of "Freebird!" But sure enough, someone HAD to yell it so I played it...from the solo section out and man did we have a blast. LOL!
 
After I was done though, I said "from here on out, you can have all the "free bird" you want in the mens bathroom!" :) We still say that today....then we give them a little of the solo section. LOL! :)
 
-Danny

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#35
craigb
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 03:09:54 (permalink)
I use it crack up bands that only have one guitarist.  I also add "It's in G!" just to be helpful.

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#36
UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 09:17:59 (permalink)
craigb
I use it crack up bands that only have one guitarist.  I also add "It's in G!" just to be helpful.


That goes over well at piano recitals, too.
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Randy P
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 10:20:29 (permalink)
My standard response to Freebird  or Stairway was "Sorry folks, but we made a deal with Skynrd/Zepplin that they wouldn't play our **** and we wouldn't play theirs"
 
Randy

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The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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bitflipper
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 10:21:49 (permalink)
Laugh if you want, but there have always been certain songs that are guaranteed to bring the audience to your side. We hate them from years of repetition, but people still love to hear even bad renditions of Stairway to Heaven or Smoke on the Water. Thankfully, nobody asks for Disco Lady anymore.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 11:37:32 (permalink)
A friend of mine had a wedding band as his primary gig.  They played everything.  Classy jazz, Irish jigs, blues, classic rock, dance, R&B, country, pop, etc.
 
Whenever someone would yell out, "Freebird!", "Proud Mary!", "Born to be Wild!", "Disco Inferno!", "Celebrate!", "Jump!", "Mack the Knife!", "Folsom Prison!", or "Danny Boy!", there was a very good chance the band already had it covered.
 
They'd play for about 3-4 hours per night.  The money wasn't very good and the work wasn't very steady, but he made it work for many years.
#40
spacey
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 12:09:45 (permalink)
Private parties, weddings and "event" gigs were very cool and we made great money with excellent contracts that would usually include gratuities and traveling expenses.
Being able to play so many special requests was a major plus.
 
The craziest ( I thought) gig that we took...I showed up to practice one night and was informed I needed to approve signing a contract of which we were to be the Indian national rodeo band!
I thought it was a joke but after all the joking and laughing...it was real. So I signed and we were to start in a week or so doing an international Indian rodeo- the details were; we played one night of a
dance party for all contestants. We then played six nights during the rodeo (inside colosseum on the
level above the contestant entries...bull shoots, etc.) and then one dance party night to end.
The contract was for dates/time and payment only. Expenses/food were worked out and included as performance pay which came out very well in 4 digits per member (5).
 
So I go to the first practice for this gig wondering what in the world will be doing during the rodeo?
I get tuned, look around and they're all looking at me..?!...what? Well what do we do Mike?
Man! You guys talk me into this and now ask me what we're doing? !! ( everybody laughing)
Ok. I've been to a many rodeo so what we need are little 7 second do-dads. LOL.
I was very glad that I had spent many evenings playing my guitar while watching TV. I knew enough
little crazy tunes/themes such as Bonanza, Maverick, Flintstones ( which I posted at Box LOL) that
we had a blast getting prepared. The dance/parties we weren't concerned about.
The barrel racing caught me off guard! We ended the first run at 7 seconds and wasn't half way done! LOL. Easy fix.
 
It turned out to be one of the most fun gigs I ever played. There were 20 to 35,000 people a night
just having one hell of a great time and we later did many dances and rodeos in local arenas.
Weddings and such just seemed kinda tame after all that LOL.
 
 
 
 
#41
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 13:45:38 (permalink)
The next time you say "this ain't my first Rodeo" I'll have a better idea what you mean. :-)


#42
Jeff Evans
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 16:30:48 (permalink)
I have been very lucky being able to do music full time for so long but just playing gigs can be a great survival tool for sure. Although I started writing music for various things there were times where all I did was play gigs and nothing else. Making a big investment in drums early was a good thing to do for me. I started out playing in a restaurant residency which was hard to get even then. Playing two nights a week for a couple of years in the same place.
 
In Canberra (capitol of Australia) there was a lot of live playing. Parliament lives there and there a lot of gigs going on behind the scenes. Jazzy ensembles especially piano bass and drums.  I found the more styles of music you played as a drummer the more gigs you got.
 
There were bursts of styles taking hold locally like rock for a few years. I was in a very very loud band! It was great to play at that power level for a while too. (Very big PA's too. Sonor drums sound amazing at very high volume levels)  Then Country really happened and that is when I ended up playing with Frank (Gambale) for example. Doing like 5 gigs a week for two years which was a lot.  It was all pure Country, Australian and American style. We actually supported Charlie Pride on one occasion which was pretty cool. (His band was something else!) It is such a cool style of music. (Frank is so good as a country lead guitarist)
 
There was tons of old time dances, folk and acoustic music, pop and corporate, Latin and fusion bands too. And of course the straight up good old working wedding and club, cabaret or 50/50 bands. I led in many of those too. There are a lot of clubs in Canberra and people are always getting married.
 
You could take on a few students to supplement things too. All this while I was setting up the electronic music studio and getting underway in there. Had the days off to fiddle with all that or often came home after gigs and went all night in the studio and slept all next day and did it all over again the next night. I also spent a lot of time in front of a very nice Hi Fi listening to everything that has been recorded. A good thing to do to become a great engineer.
 
It was hard to manage money because although I was making it, I liked spending it too. I think we are all guilty of that. We just can't help ourselves when it comes to musical instruments! The studio took a lot of money from me! But then it got bigger and better as a result. It is much cheaper today to set up something very powerful. I mean one big synth in those days cost $5000 and it could only do one sound at a time. But I still collected them though. Just had to go out and do another 50 gigs to pay for it.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/07/11 16:32:51

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#43
Randy P
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 19:35:46 (permalink)
Oh, were gonna do strange or fun gigs now. Here's just a few.
 
1)Arizona State Prison for Women. Met some of the inmates in later years at gigs, Awkward doesn't cover it.
2) Maximum Security Mens Federal Prison outside Phx, Az. 2 shows, outside, back to back.
3) New York State Womens Championship banquet. We were a full blown rock band and somehow got booked for this. 300 women bowlers, away from their husbands, in a hall with an open bar and a rock band. Let your imaginations run wild......and you won't come close.
 
4) A private upscale prom at the Judson School in Scottsdale, AZ. Someone spiked the punch with lsd, and there was 200 kids laughing hysterically for 3 hours. I had them go out one set of doors in a conga line and come back in. Some of the locals who were not students got wind of the scene, and joined the line on the way back in. Lotsa fun til the cops showed up.
 
Randy

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The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
#44
craigb
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 19:42:39 (permalink)
Didn't I suggest you write a book about your adventures Randy?  Yeah...  I think I did.

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#45
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/11 20:21:55 (permalink)
One of my college bands got invited to play a Solstice party at a Pyramid on a private sink hole.
 
I told the other guys, who were fairly straight laced that they should be ready for anything... like naked dancing hippies and stuff.
 
About 3 songs in it happened just like I thought it would.
 
We end up as the house band for the next few quarters.
 
 
 
 
 


#46
Truckermusic
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 10:09:43 (permalink)
Well, I do not have road stories like you guys do.....Exhausting as it  may have been it still had to be cool and a lot of fun....
 
I did the other thing......(now I am going to gloss over a lot of things inbetween here)
 
I learned to play guitar and bounced around taking lessons for years....worked a straight job for several years while I went to community college and night school......I was teaching a little at the time at a local music store right across the street from a major metro station....they sold you gear down stairs and then signed you up for a couple of free lessons to hook them ...even if was only for several months.....it was a great package.....I was always able to hang on to my students for a good solid year or two but I always had a steady stream of new students as well........
 
one day I told my self this was enough and signed my self up at a major University in Chicago for a music performance degree....and so I got my Bachelor degree in 84 and my Masters in 86. At this point I had five or six teaching places, including a personal route that I came to you for lessons.
 
Next I got a gig at a local college teaching both individual instruction as well as classroom instruction which I did for several years. While there I opened my own music instruction shop (at one point I had 25 people working for me teaching different instruments), got married, bought a house (at an estated sale that needed soooo much work it was not even funny)....
 
Thru all of this teaching, I was doing solo classical guitar gigs at wedding dinners, resturants, Home parties for the well to do, and where ever else I could play.....
I also had a classical guitar trio that we played out a lot as well. We rehearsed over at our first guitar teachers house and he would do original music for us and well as sit in sometimes to bring us up to a quartet.
 
He and I did a lot of duet gigs together too....
 
Now to fill out or round me out (yeah right) I played in a rock band (had a few gigs) really went no where.....but we did play a lot of USO's and graduations and dive bars...This went on for several years
 
I did wedding pick up band work and what ever else I could find.....
 
I was very busy 7 days a week....no vacations (like you guys) or days off.
 
Also I did some very small limited publishing, worked on a guitar manual (which went no where cause it was way too off the charts.....think George Van Epps and Ted Green manuals and you have an idea of why)....I did guitar arrangement, duo's and trio arrangements etc......I did a lot of writing....
 
I did this for almost 15 years until the wife and I decided to go our seperate ways and get divorced....it was a very bitter and brutal one....
 
She ended up with the house, the dogs, all my music and all my instruments, my car .....well basically she ended up with everything......I had the clothes on my back....and of course the laywer bills....etc.....
 
anyway, I ended up driving a 18 wheeler over the road for about 12 years and did not touch an instrument or see any sheet music or any thing in the whole time.....the only music in my life at the time was FM!
 
Luckly now, I live by myself (which is good and bad.....I have issues ) have a couple of instruments, a home and at least a stable (as can be expected) job.
 
I am right now having my degree's framed and I am going to put them up on my music room wall so that I can see them....I am proud of all the hard work it took to get them.....I worked full time teaching and went to school full time....I was able to do it all on my own....so they are mine and I want to see them and all the good memories they hold ........
 
And that's my story (or at least the shorthand version)
Clifford
 
 
post edited by Truckermusic - 2013/07/12 10:17:41

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#47
batsbrew
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 10:23:21 (permalink)
man.
 
what cool stories!
 
heheh
 
thanks guys (where are the gals?)

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#48
spacey
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 10:32:36 (permalink)
Truckermusic
 
She ended up with the house, the dogs, all my music and all my instruments, my car .....well basically she ended up with everything......I had the clothes on my back....and of course the laywer bills....etc.....
 
Clifford 
 



When Kirk met McCoy he told Kirk that he may has well be in space because his X took the whole damn planet and all he had left was his bones. LOL.
 
My dads first wife took all his clothes when she left...he had to call a friend.
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bitflipper
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 10:51:59 (permalink)
One of the most interesting gigs I ever played was at a members-only sex club. It was a private mansion, right in the city. I'd driven past it many times but never knew it was there, being hidden behind high walls and foliage. Members drove in from all over the state to swim, dance, eat, watch porn and hook up. Sadly, the activities were reserved for members only and not extended to the hired help. I never told my wife about that gig, but she must have had some clue when I got home that night...


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#50
Truckermusic
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 11:00:30 (permalink)

When Kirk met McCoy he told Kirk that he may has well be in space because his X took the whole damn planet and all he had left was his bones. LOL.
 
My dads first wife took all his clothes when she left...he had to call a friend.



Oh I believe it.....sad that women are so cruel......the really sad thing is that I met her in music school and she knew what it meant to me by taking that stuff......I also had Bonsai trees that I had about 10 years of work into that she just let dry out and die.....again.....she knew ....
 
So it is no wonder I have issues to this day.......
anyway
I did not mean to get off topic here.....but it was part and parcel of the story.....
All I needed to do was throw in some non gratutidous sex and it would of made a million bucks at the box office...........    :-)
 
Ok well maybe not.....But I am not sorry I did the music thing full time.....I just wish it would have gone a bit different and I could play like I did back then.....it really was the best years of my life.......it was music 24/7...........I do sometimes wonder if it would have turned out differently if I would have gone to like Berkely in Boston. But oh well.....
 
I am still happy right now

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#51
Truckermusic
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 11:01:52 (permalink)
bitflipper
One of the most interesting gigs I ever played was at a members-only sex club. It was a private mansion, right in the city. I'd driven past it many times but never knew it was there, being hidden behind high walls and foliage. Members drove in from all over the state to swim, dance, eat, watch porn and hook up. Sadly, the activities were reserved for members only and not extended to the hired help. I never told my wife about that gig, but she must have had some clue when I got home that night...




Do you think it was your smile that gave it away?
Women hone in on things like that you know......

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#52
spacey
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 11:17:14 (permalink)
Truckermusic

I did not mean to get off topic here.....


I probably derailed the thread. I'm derailed so many here expect it from me.
Full -time....I think it would have been easier than holding a day job and then a music career after working all day. Having money, family, insurance...etc. are really the type of factor that I couldn't trade-off for. Thought about it though.
Maybe when I retire?....do a Candy kind of trip and travel around in the back of a moving truck with a polka band...?....and dream of gigs with Bit and Randy.
 
post edited by spacey - 2013/07/12 11:18:35
#53
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 11:24:51 (permalink)
Only when I was on "extended" tours but those were never more than a month or so at a time. I foolishly thought it best to keep a job and an apartment and kept things mostly to local gigs. I usually had at least one gig a month but usually more and there were stints of weekly regular gigs. I played in a lot of bands simultaneously too... usually 2-3 at a time but sometimes up to 5-6 so between rehearsals, gigging and writing/practicing at home 20-40 hours a week went into the music on top of my full time day jobs. It was exhausting at times but I did a lot. Now though in light of the fact my work ethic and day gigs have pretty much crippled me I regret not just throwing caution to the wind and doing more tours/regular paid gigs instead of slaving away for peanuts. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Now I can't do either.
#54
Karyn
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 11:36:23 (permalink)
batsbrewthanks guys (where are the gals?)

I thought y'all were bored of my stories of partying with Bad Banners, hob knobbing with Blaze Bayley, getting Girl School to molest my Andy, watching a Stranglers set from side stage, mixing FOH for an AC/DC tribute act while so drunk I can't remember being carried out at the end...   and then there's the times when I was playing.......

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#55
Truckermusic
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 12:11:11 (permalink)
spacey
Truckermusic

I did not mean to get off topic here.....


I probably derailed the thread. I'm derailed so many here expect it from me.
Full -time....I think it would have been easier than holding a day job and then a music career after working all day. Having money, family, insurance...etc. are really the type of factor that I couldn't trade-off for. Thought about it though.
Maybe when I retire?....do a Candy kind of trip and travel around in the back of a moving truck with a polka band...?....and dream of gigs with Bit and Randy.
 


Not an issue here........but i tell you what.....if you start one of them thar polka Bands, especially on the back of a truck.....
I will play washboard fer ya! :-)

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#56
batsbrew
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 13:11:06 (permalink)
Karyn
batsbrewthanks guys (where are the gals?)

I thought y'all were bored of my stories of partying with Bad Banners, hob knobbing with Blaze Bayley, getting Girl School to molest my Andy, watching a Stranglers set from side stage, mixing FOH for an AC/DC tribute act while so drunk I can't remember being carried out at the end...   and then there's the times when I was playing.......




thanks karyn!
 
balance.....

Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
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"The Time is Magic"
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#57
jbow
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 13:56:56 (permalink)
Yes, I have done drugs music full time, 1970/71. I think...
 
The most memorable fan comment was from one of the "exotic dancers" who said, "he may be small but he is wirey". I guess you had to be there, they told me I was there. I was lead singer and acoustic guitar.
 
J
post edited by jbow - 2013/07/12 14:00:27

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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 14:14:26 (permalink)
jbow
Yes, I have done drugs music full time, 1970/71. I think...
 
The most memorable fan comment was from one of the "exotic dancers" who said, "he may be small but he is wirey". I guess you had to be there, they told me I was there. I was lead singer and acoustic guitar.
 
J




While watching one of my bands play my (now ex) girlfriend had one of her friends remark "I bet that's the face he makes in bed... isn't it?" in reference to my furious guit playing facial contortions. Apparently she was indeed correct. How embarrassing. lol
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Truckermusic
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Re: Who here has done music full time? 2013/07/12 15:14:11 (permalink)
Beepster
jbow
Yes, I have done drugs music full time, 1970/71. I think...
 
The most memorable fan comment was from one of the "exotic dancers" who said, "he may be small but he is wirey". I guess you had to be there, they told me I was there. I was lead singer and acoustic guitar.
 
J




While watching one of my bands play my (now ex) girlfriend had one of her friends remark "I bet that's the face he makes in bed... isn't it?" in reference to my furious guit playing facial contortions. Apparently she was indeed correct. How embarrassing. lol




For you or her?

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