Helpful ReplyWho's throwing in the towel?

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KingsMix
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 10:08:48 (permalink)
CoteRotie
It's likely that we could all continue to use SONAR for years to come, especially if Gibson upholds the promise to make SONAR work for us even if they shut down the servers used for authentication.
 
Personally, I'm no longer interested.
 
1.  At some point a Windows update will break something in SONAR.  There will be no warning, all of a sudden we'll lose functionality, or stability, etc.  You can leave your PC unconnected so it can't update,  but I don't want to go that way.  Too many other things these days require online authorization or updates.
 
2.  There's no longer official tech support.  This forum is great, but I expect  interest to wane with time.
 
3.  Because of 1 and maybe for some 2, we will eventually have to migrate to  a new DAW.  At that point there will be some sort of a learning curve.  I'd rather get that out of the way now, with SONAR as a backup.
 
4.  There will be no further bug fixes (yes, there are still plenty of them) or improvements.  I was incredibly impressed with the pace of the updates, bug fixes and improvements that Cakewalk was pushing out.  I was on the lifetime plan and feel like I got my money's worth from that, but no fixes going forward is a deal breaker.
 
Given all that I'm planning to keep SONAR installed for existing projects, but I don't plan to use it for anything new.  It was a tough choice between Studio One and Cubase (for me, YMMV) but with the 50% off deal on Cubase pro I decided to go that way for now.  If I hate it I'll try Studio One.
 
I have no interest in doing anything new in SONAR unless I have to-  Anyone else feel that way?
 
 


Cakewalk/Sonar has thrown in the towel.......
Reality is, they have left the users no choice but to move on to greener pastures.
Sonar is a thing of the past....no tears for them.
 
#31
MANTRASKY
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 10:24:49 (permalink)
After so many years l too Transitioned to Studio One. I have friends that were using Pro Tools and Cubase for years that made the move to S1. I had the chance to work with their Daw's both Pro Tools & Cubase extensively so I know those programs very well, they’re great programs but overall Studio One is a lot better for my Work-Flow.

I realized that I was staying with Sonar because of the investment and loyalty, but in recent years the program became more and more “Unreliable & Unstable” to many Crashes & Bugs!!! I just couldn’t find a reason other than to pretend that it was the best software, friends of mine couldn’t understand why I’m “still holding on?” So I had my eye on other DAWs I was also a long time user of Pro Tools HD it was a solid program and that's when Apple was on top of the "Computer Hardware" but ultimately I wanted to go back to PC, many recommended Cakewalk! I don't regret the years with Sonar, with the Gibson situation (I don't blame them either). Most have spoken about Sonar's "Legacy Bloatware" to be the Main Cause of Crashes, maybe that's why Most of the Professional Studio's around the world "Don't use Cakewalk" (a number of reasons I'm sure).
 
I'm Sorry for the Cakewalk group, I wish them all the best.

After a couple weeks of “long hours” of recordings, Studio One has been “Rock Solid” Never once a problem, it's so intuitive that I'm practically an expert (a lot more to learn though) once all set up & running, it's given me the confidence to record again.
post edited by MANTRASKY - 2017/12/06 17:36:10

 
 
#32
astaub
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 11:11:58 (permalink)
There is no DSD support for both other DAWs.
 
I've had Cubase and Studio One for years before I started working with Sonar because of DSD.
I do not enjoy working with conversion.
 
I hope that the company Tascam Sonar buys and expands with HD formats and 3D and Binaural. For me that would be a solution.
 
I do not understand why people really just want to focus on a single DAW. For users where this is just a small hobby, of course, that's not the same.
 
In addition to the DAW Sonar, Cubase and Studio One, I also work with Notion 6 and Dorico. For me, Dorico seems to be moving in a direction that allows me to approach things from a different perspective. Also the software Overture is interesting, I'll take a look at it in any case.
 
I want to compose more in the future and use less artificial intelligence, I personally do not enjoy working with random generators, at least not filling the musical content with AI.

Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (Lifetime), Cakewalk by BandLab (Beta), Steinberg UR28M, Windows 8.1 , Notion 6 (Presonus), Dorico 1.2x (Steinberg), Cubase 9.5.x Pro. , Studio One 3.5x (Presonus),  WaveLab Pro 9.5.x (Steinberg) Halion 6.x 
#33
dappa1
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 11:34:02 (permalink)
Ww have been using software for the last 30 years.

Sonar X series 
https://youtu.be/9YNplnhTAZY Steal My Girl
 https://youtu.be/A0VPi_UZmLo Moon & Stars
 
KRK VXT6 Studio One 3  Main: SPLAT for Lifetime: Formerly known as...
Nothing beats the best!
#34
bartveld
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 11:52:31 (permalink)
I am in the process of learning Cubase. It's doable, it's like learning a new language with a different grammar. I will keep Sonar for as long as it works, but I certainly will not start any new projects in it, as exporting to another DAW will of course be a tremendous hassle. 
#35
gswitz
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 11:57:21 (permalink)
What's Sonar?

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#36
tonydude
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 12:35:29 (permalink)
When doing actual recordings, I will still use Sonar as I am more productive with it. 
But I am learning Studio One/Cubase and will switch in the future. 
 
Learning new stuff can be good because it will force me to think differently and be more creative.
#37
dappa1
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 12:45:43 (permalink)
Nothing wrong with starting something better.

Sonar X series 
https://youtu.be/9YNplnhTAZY Steal My Girl
 https://youtu.be/A0VPi_UZmLo Moon & Stars
 
KRK VXT6 Studio One 3  Main: SPLAT for Lifetime: Formerly known as...
Nothing beats the best!
#38
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 13:00:20 (permalink)
CoteRotie
I have no interest in doing anything new in SONAR unless I have to-  Anyone else feel that way?
 

Agree completely with all four of your points. I will be installing Cubase Pro later this week.
 
I'm in between projects now and about go back into writing mode for a while so now is the perfect time for me to switch horses.
 
Yeah I could stop all updates of all my software and lock my computer in time. I've done it in the past I find it gets to be the computer equivalent of living as an Amish person after a while. These days I've got zero desire end up being the guy planting corn by hand behind a mule when tractors exist and are easy to get.
 
Like others have said, there will be a learning curve to any new platform. I think its a wiser choice to work my way through that learning curve while I can still fall back on a working copy of Sonar if needed. If I ride the dead horse until it finally breaks, I will then have no safety net while learning whatever new platform I go with. That just doesn't seem like a good choice to me.
 
I do have to say one thing I will miss about Sonar is this forum. I'm poking around a bit on the Cubase forum but so far it seems about as warm and welcoming as a truck stop colonoscopy. Lots of by the book/by the numbers boys in that crowd from what I can tell.

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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#39
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 13:20:55 (permalink)
I'll be staying with SONAR.
 
Period.
 
 

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#40
Cactus Music
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:36:48 (permalink)
Why do people think that W10 updates are going to kill Sonar? Did they ever kill Sonar 6?? People still use that version. 
I don't like W10 so I've gone back to W8.1 Best of both worlds. Not that I think W10 will break Sonar.. I just don't like what it keeps doing to everything else in my system. 
 
There are a few myths flying around that are making some people panic. And the W10 update is one of them,, a myth. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#41
bartveld
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:39:36 (permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
I do have to say one thing I will miss about Sonar is this forum. I'm poking around a bit on the Cubase forum but so far it seems about as warm and welcoming as a truck stop colonoscopy. Lots of by the book/by the numbers boys in that crowd from what I can tell.



I agree with you there. Posted a question and nobody bothered to answer. Looking around there seemed to be a lot of ado with the 9.5 version, which wasn't too encouraging. Mostly, everyone seems to be in his own bubble there.
#42
pwalpwal
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:42:40 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Why do people think that W10 updates are going to kill Sonar? Did they ever kill Sonar 6?? People still use that version. 
I don't like W10 so I've gone back to W8.1 Best of both worlds. Not that I think W10 will break Sonar.. I just don't like what it keeps doing to everything else in my system. 
 
There are a few myths flying around that are making some people panic. And the W10 update is one of them,, a myth. 




a win10 update recently killed cakewalk plugins due to a change in thread timing initialization, older versions like s6 don't rely on the more-frequently-changing windows os like the current splat version does... it's not a myth, but it's also not guaranteed to happen either... and if it "keeps doing" stuff to everything else on your system, how long before sonar is also affected?

just a sec

#43
stratman70
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:49:49 (permalink)
Well, no towel throwing here. I also use Sound Forge, unsupported for years. Plat does everything I want it to do and more that I don't even use yet.
I will use it until I can't. 
But I do not see that happening. My daw has been W8.1x64 for many years.
It will stay like that. 

 
 
#44
stratman70
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:53:41 (permalink)
dappa1
I dont think they should put anything from Sonar into Studio One. Lets drop tje dead Donkey and move forward. I really like Studio One the way it is and its refreshing to have something new and different.

Why try to get others to feel as negative as you do. Dead Donkey? In your eyes.
Really sad that people cannot just leave others alone and carry on with what they want to do.
Not your first post with like this. OK, we get it, your attitude towards Sonar.
Just many of us do NOT share your views. 

 
 
#45
mkerl
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:54:59 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Why do people think that W10 updates are going to kill Sonar? 




Audio Software (and Video Software as well) needs direct access to hardware, what shouldt be the job of the OS. So, Windows never killed software (and will never do), but sometimes problems occur with drivers or the way, Windows manages hardware access. The same is true for Gaming BTW. For my experience does Microsoft  quickly came up with a workaround whenever something happened like that . Usually you shouldt be safe with your software for a couple of years. 

Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
#46
chuckebaby
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 15:55:09 (permalink)
pwalpwal
Cactus Music
Why do people think that W10 updates are going to kill Sonar? Did they ever kill Sonar 6?? People still use that version. 
I don't like W10 so I've gone back to W8.1 Best of both worlds. Not that I think W10 will break Sonar.. I just don't like what it keeps doing to everything else in my system. 
 
There are a few myths flying around that are making some people panic. And the W10 update is one of them,, a myth. 




a win10 update recently killed cakewalk plugins due to a change in thread timing initialization, older versions like s6 don't rely on the more-frequently-changing windows os like the current splat version does... it's not a myth, but it's also not guaranteed to happen either... and if it "keeps doing" stuff to everything else on your system, how long before sonar is also affected?



Some systems
 
LanceRiley
Original Post: It has come to our attention that a recent Windows 10 update has introduced instability in a subset of our plug-ins and may cause SONAR or other Windows DAWs to crash. The problem is related to a change in the timing for thread initialization on Windows, which leads to intermittent crashing on project load, plug-in scanning, or adding these plug-ins to a project. We are able to reproduce the issue and it appears to only affect some systems since it is timing related. We are actively working on a resolution and will release fixes to the affected plugins as soon as possible.
Plug-ins that may be affected:
  • CA-2A
  • Rapture Pro
  • Rapture Session
  • Z3TA+2


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#47
dappa1
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:00:04 (permalink)
Dont get me wrong I have used Sonar for a while so I would be a fool to think it doesnt do the job but reality is they are other DAWs that work better. Sometimes we are blinded cos our choice of DAWS is the best for us not knowing that others may look down on your choice until you make an informed decision to try what they have been trying to show you for a long while. The top DAWs are that for a reason.

Sonar X series 
https://youtu.be/9YNplnhTAZY Steal My Girl
 https://youtu.be/A0VPi_UZmLo Moon & Stars
 
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Nothing beats the best!
#48
pwalpwal
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:08:40 (permalink)
chuckebaby


I don't remember plug ins being "killed" I could be wrong, do you have a link to that ?



https://steamcommunity.com/games/543510/announcements/detail/282995674662732546 for example
 
yeah, "some systems" and "other daws" but i didn't see any other hoo-har outside the cakewalk world

just a sec

#49
mkerl
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:11:35 (permalink)
dappa1

........ but reality is they are other DAWs that work better. 
 
 .... The top DAWs are that for a reason.

 
Depends on your needs . . . 
 
Reason is most often, that they have been in place when it cameto the Audio Revolution in the PC Market. I remember times, when it was a sensation to handle even one small Audiofile on your Pentium PC, armed with floppy Discs and SCSI . . . . Cakewalk was around as well, but it seems, they have not been successful when it comes to marketing. But that's another question, isn't it?
post edited by mkerl - 2017/12/06 17:56:14

Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
#50
chuckebaby
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:11:52 (permalink)
pwalpwal
chuckebaby


I don't remember plug ins being "killed" I could be wrong, do you have a link to that ?



https://steamcommunity.com/games/543510/announcements/detail/282995674662732546 for example




I edited my previous posts. It was only some systems. 4 plug ins.
  • CA-2A
  • Rapture Pro
  • Rapture Session
  • Z3TA+2

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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#51
pwalpwal
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:15:04 (permalink)
yeah, some systems running win10
 
don't underestimate how reliant sonar is on certain windows things, this update didn't seem to affect anyone else in daw/plugin dev land
 

just a sec

#52
CoteRotie
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:20:20 (permalink)
My main issue is that at some point an update will likely break SONAR, or it will fall behind to the point where it feels dated, and you will want to update to a new DAW.  Or some bug drives you crazy enough to make you switch.
 
Nothing you can do about all the projects you've done to date, but if you get 5 years down the road from now with 100s more projects in SONAR and no fix/update path you may be really sorry ;)
 
Again, freezing your DAW as-is is a perfectly valid way to go, though I just came across an annoying automation bug yesterday, and it was even more annoying not to be able to report it and to know that it will never be fixed.

Wait, wait, what key is it in? 

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#53
pwalpwal
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:26:04 (permalink)
CoteRotie
Again, freezing your DAW as-is is a perfectly valid way to go,



what about g.a.s.??!?

just a sec

#54
DrLumen
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:33:27 (permalink)
“The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.” - Mark Twain.
 
I don't see anything going wrong with Sonar and I don't plan on changing unless I have to go to a different OS and SPlat doesn't work anymore. And, if the authorization servers go down, I'm sure it will be cracked. Before the mods get in an uproar about mention of using cracks let me say this, if Sonar is abandoned and there is no support for a product we paid for, it is legal, per the DMCA, for the copyright protections to be cracked.

-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

Sonar Platinum / Intel i7-4790K / AsRock Z97 / 32GB RAM / Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB / Behringer FCA610 / M-Audio Sport 2x4 / Win7 x64 Pro / WDC Black HDD's / EVO 850 SSD's / Alesis Q88 / Boss DS-330 / Korg nanoKontrol / Novation Launch Control / 14.5" Lava Lamp
#55
abacab
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 16:47:35 (permalink)
pwalpwal
Cactus Music
Why do people think that W10 updates are going to kill Sonar? Did they ever kill Sonar 6?? People still use that version. 
I don't like W10 so I've gone back to W8.1 Best of both worlds. Not that I think W10 will break Sonar.. I just don't like what it keeps doing to everything else in my system. 
 
There are a few myths flying around that are making some people panic. And the W10 update is one of them,, a myth. 




a win10 update recently killed cakewalk plugins due to a change in thread timing initialization, older versions like s6 don't rely on the more-frequently-changing windows os like the current splat version does... it's not a myth, but it's also not guaranteed to happen either... and if it "keeps doing" stuff to everything else on your system, how long before sonar is also affected?



I'll pile on with this...
 
Microsoft has embarked on a rapid cycle of OS upgrades with the new Windows 10 update scheme.  Rather than putting an emphasis on OS stability, which is where it should be, we get an OS upgrade every 6 months or so.  Anniversary, Creators, Fall Creators, etc., are each like a new version of Windows.  This aggressive upgrading of features is de-stabilizing for all Windows users, not just for DAWs.  Lots of folks have commented on system settings reverting to defaults, or driver changes, etc.  I cannot understand the new MS direction at all...
 
We are now going to see the OS change bi-annually, where in the past major service packs and upgrades only occurred once every few years.  So change will occur much faster now.  It will not be like in the past where things kept running for years by default.
 
So eventually various programming libraries, API's, and such may change, and if your application is not kept current, it will eventually become deprecated by default, if the OS no longer supports legacy code.  Your applications must constantly be kept up to date, so you either need to be on a supported application platform, or freeze your system.
 
The monthly update thing is basically same as ever, except all the bug fixes and security patches are rolled up together, so you don't get to pick and choose individual patches, but that's not the biggie.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#56
chuckebaby
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 17:05:06 (permalink)
pwalpwal
yeah, some systems running win10
 
don't underestimate how reliant sonar is on certain windows things, this update didn't seem to affect anyone else in daw/plugin dev land
 




I agree with you. it did effect user and a lot of them too.
But if its only 4 plug ins and 60% of users, my chances are good .
 
TBH Paul, im still running Windows 8.1 (on my workstation) and will stay here on that using Sonar.
If or when you switch to another DAW, I wish you luck. I've enjoyed our conversations over the years.
Its been real, and I mean that.

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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#57
Starise
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 17:07:26 (permalink)
I had the intention to move all of my work over to another daw and start to get away from Sonar. The reality is I just gravitate to Sonar for mixing and recording. As it stands everything I need in Sonar works and I can do it better and faster.
To those who wonder why we can't get away from one daw and work in other daws, I certainly can when forced to do so.I have a few now that I could cross over to. But why would I? 
 
It will probably take something bad happening for me to stop using my Sonar. When that happens I'll be reluctantly ready. That doesn't mean I won't use other daws for their particular strengths now.
 
If anyone out there is possibly considering acquisition of Sonar, know this. We picked it because we like it. To us daws are not totally generic in the sense that they can all do everything. In that regard Sonar is/was very unique and has a large following of those who appreciate those differences and use them  every day with great success. 
 
I'm still holding on to the hope that maybe Sonar will be picked up by someone who cares code intact and be further updated into the future. 
 
That much is still possible if not probable.
 
 

Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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#58
FemcanLana
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 17:16:38 (permalink)
lmbell40
For those who are, eventually, leaving SONAR, do you have any recommendations for new DAW's? I'm torn and not sure where to start investing time. I've been with SONAR forever and I know all good things must come to an end but where to next?




I did the demo thing on a few and some I like and some I dont.
Its all personal preference. I dont like Studio one but others love it, I personally like mixcraft and I believe Reaper has melodyne 4 ara integration now and Reaper is like only $60 and You can Demo for like 60 days I believe
Take a day and explore. Its kinda fun actually!

Elitebook 2540p 4gigs Steinberg CL1 Shure SM7b AKG 240 MKII Headphones
 
#59
GaryWalker
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Re: Who's throwing in the towel? 2017/12/06 17:29:35 (permalink)
I threw in my towel as soon as I read the announcement.
 
Gibson's actions just acted as a catalyst for a decision I'd been mulling over for a while. I've had Reaper installed side by side for a while as something "useful to have". I realise just how useful it was!

I have 2 EPs and 2 albums worth of material to move to Reaper projects. My plan is to just export everything as audio with automation printed (but no FX) and stick the projects in Reaper in that form. It gives me scope for running off stems and backing tracks, which is all I need. Anything new I work on is done in Reaper.

Cheers,
Gary.

Current configuration:
Core i3 Laptop / 8GB RAM; Sonar Platinum (replaced with REAPER); Roland Quad Capture interface; Alesis Micron; Roland XP30; Akai Mini MPK; Akai S2000
#60
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