Why America Is Falling Behind In Math

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godino
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 09:27:58 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

Actual answer to an actual test. Thank goodness it was only a 21 year old college junior.



And people think I am wrong for not going with the more popularly held views!

Everyone knows X is on the right side.


Just seen this - Priceless - best laugh of the morning thanks Space


Reminded me of a Religious Knowledge question we got at school once
"Sketch the character of David" - meaning write (in words) about Davids character

12 years old Boys - You can guess whats coming right??

Lots of wonderful pictures of Middle Eastern Gentlemen sat on donkeys whilst being fanned by swarthed ladies using Palm tree leaves.

The teacher didn't see the funny side, but it kept us laughing for weeks.
post edited by godino - 2009/03/24 09:31:21

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#31
Guitarhacker
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 10:26:06 (permalink)
here in the computer industry, where you haven't had to actually know math OR know how to program computers for years now, thinking outside the box is a highly sought-after trait...



Is this why windows has so many problems?

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#32
space_cowboy
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 11:18:03 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

so what am I missing?

3² + 4² = 5²

are you guys using that fancy trigonometry and just afraid to round out?


You and your fancy hypotenuses.

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#33
foxwolfen
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 11:26:45 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

American Pie... that's a song by Don McLean... right?

LOL

Nice.

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#34
spindlebox
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 11:59:12 (permalink)
Sorry, none of this adds up to me



 

 
#35
Roflcopter
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 12:12:28 (permalink)
LOL

Nice.


You know that they at one point actually proposed changing the value of pi by State Law down South somewhere, I believe Georgia or Arkansas.

Bible says it's 3, so..... it should be simply 3, not some crazy number.

I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
#36
spindlebox
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/24 12:16:06 (permalink)
Bible says it's 3, so..... it should be simply 3, not some crazy number.


Rounding down, like America's IQ!!



 

 
#37
Nick P
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/25 00:44:54 (permalink)
I've got some buddies who'd like to source that angle with a sat truck.

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#38
Jessie Sammler
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/26 22:34:05 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

LOL

Nice.


You know that they at one point actually proposed changing the value of pi by State Law down South somewhere, I believe Georgia or Arkansas.

Bible says it's 3, so..... it should be simply 3, not some crazy number.


In the State of Illinois, the value of pi is 1.7429 cakes.
#39
robby
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/26 23:24:46 (permalink)
Ahhh the old side angle side postulate :-) Still works...

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#40
robby
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/26 23:27:38 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy


ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

so what am I missing?

3² + 4² = 5²

are you guys using that fancy trigonometry and just afraid to round out?


You and your fancy hypotenuses.



Ahhh, you misspelled hippopotamus?

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foxwolfen
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/27 01:19:51 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: robby


ORIGINAL: space_cowboy


ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

so what am I missing?

3² + 4² = 5²

are you guys using that fancy trigonometry and just afraid to round out?


You and your fancy hypotenuses.



Ahhh, you misspelled hippopotamus?


No, I think he meant hypaethron

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#42
Mamabear
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/27 09:54:56 (permalink)
Great laughs this morning. Thanks everyone!
#43
Jonbouy
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/28 21:11:12 (permalink)
Why America Is Falling Behind In Math


Is the answer 42?

Anyway as time passes we are all destined to suffer from falling behind, as well as sagging knees.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2009/03/28 21:19:21

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#44
jhughs
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/28 21:25:57 (permalink)


I don't know... I mean, it isn't incorrect, is it? - just out of context.
But then again, if that's the ACTUAL question, it's not particularly clear. They did, after all "Find X," didn't they.
I think he/she should get extra credit for thinking outside the box, and here in the computer industry, where you haven't had to actually know math OR know how to program computers for years now, thinking outside the box is a highly sought-after trait...

- zevo


I saw a good line the other day that applies exactly to this: "What happens in vagueness, stays in vagueness."
post edited by jhughs - 2009/03/28 21:32:34

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#45
Blurick
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/28 22:13:27 (permalink)
Is the answer 42?


lol Jon does know the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

I still hear my high school geometry teacher screaming "IT'S A 3,4,5!!"
20 years later and that's all I remember about him
#46
Texrat
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/28 22:25:06 (permalink)
I'm still feuding with those guys who claim .999... is equal to 1
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 12:54:06 (permalink)
Most framing carpenters would have told you the answer in a matter of microseconds.

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#48
jhughs
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 21:37:53 (permalink)
Not sure if you were joking, but there's a simple proof for that one; that 0.999... = 1.

In college at one point we had to prove that the square root of 3 existed. I wanted to just pull out my calculator press 3 SQRT and say, "There it is!"

The real mind expander came in Logic where you learn that some infinite sets are larger than other infinite sets, and in fact, infinitely larger.

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Jessie Sammler
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 21:43:50 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jhughs

Not sure if you were joking, but there's a simple proof for that one; that 0.999... = 1.



I was joking, and I'd love to see that proof.
#50
space_cowboy
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 21:46:58 (permalink)
but 0.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
is NOT equal to 1.

For most practical purposes, it is, but by definition, it is not.


I had a course in number theory or something like that once. The prof was talking about how there are an infinite number of rational numbers between 0 and 1. However the set of irrational numbers was so much bigger that, if you made a solid black bar from 0 to 1, then removed all the rational numbers, the bar would still be solid black. Some moron in the class said "That's not right. Give me any irrational number and I will give you two irrational numbers!" He did not come back again after that.

Think about this. Lets say you took the entire Encyclopedia Britannica, gave every letter and punctuation mark a unique three digit code, then made one huge number that started with the first letter in volume 1 and finished with the period in the final volume, and put a decimal place in front of it. If you cut a 1 meter bar exactly to that fraction (a ton of decimal places of accuracy would be needed here - way down below the Planck level), you could have the entire encyclopedia on a stick a bit less than 1 meter long.

Not really related to this conversation, but kind of cool, huh?


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#51
jhughs
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 21:50:47 (permalink)
You start off with x=0.999..., then multiply by 10, then subtract the first row from the second row, then divide by 9:

x = 0.999...
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... minus 0.999...
9x = 9
x = 1
therefore x = 0.999... = 1

which proves that I was a rock guitarist who led a secret life as a geeky math/comp sci major.

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#52
space_cowboy
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 21:57:33 (permalink)
I was a math major for a while, then went to electronics engineering.

Some people call me Maurice
 
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#53
Jessie Sammler
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 22:53:14 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jhughs

You start off with x=0.999..., then multiply by 10, then subtract the first row from the second row, then divide by 9:

x = 0.999...
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... minus 0.999...
9x = 9
x = 1
therefore x = 0.999... = 1



#54
John
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 23:19:55 (permalink)
but 0.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
is NOT equal to 1.

No but 0.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9 is.

Best
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#55
MemphisJo
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/29 23:56:40 (permalink)
"Why America Is Falling Behind In Math" ?

well it starts with the word Math, they already fell behind 1 there... it's Maths


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#56
Texrat
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/30 00:03:02 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jhughs

You start off with x=0.999..., then multiply by 10, then subtract the first row from the second row, then divide by 9:

x = 0.999...
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... minus 0.999...
9x = 9
x = 1
therefore x = 0.999... = 1

which proves that I was a rock guitarist who led a secret life as a geeky math/comp sci major.


I've seen the proof, but still don't buy it. I think the guys who rely on this are too focused on what we can directly observe and missing something abstract that's beyond our comprehension. It's like an Abbott and Costello routine on steroids.

0.999... approaches 1.0, approximates 1.0, but never actually reaches it. What the proof serves to illustrate, I beieve, is a breakdown between our finite mental capacity and the true nature of infinity. Remember, trying to figure that out put Cantor in the insane asylum.
#57
Roflcopter
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/30 04:20:46 (permalink)
The prof was talking about how there are an infinite number of rational numbers between 0 and 1. However the set of irrational numbers was so much bigger that, if you made a solid black bar from 0 to 1, then removed all the rational numbers, the bar would still be solid black.


Indeedy. AKA the continuum problem, see Cantor, see L.E.J Brouwer.

The problem goes pretty deep, and even though we pretend digital is a good reflection of what's going on in the analog domain, it's not a *perfect* rendition by a far shot. Or can it ever hope to be, although only a fool would not be happy for the little comforts such trickery delivers.

Yet trickery it is. But that's another discussion.

9x = 9


I think the problem lies in that assumption. x was not 1 to begin with, no? Bit of juggling around with the period don't change that fact. Nice try, but keep your hands where I can see them


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#58
jhughs
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/30 22:49:33 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

9x = 9


I think the problem lies in that assumption. x was not 1 to begin with, no? Bit of juggling around with the period don't change that fact. Nice try, but keep your hands where I can see them



Welllllll, that wasn't really an assumption.
But maybe another way to look at it is that if 0.999... is not = 1, then what is 1 - 0.999... equal to? Dang it, I'm letting this go or I'll have to get start remembering about limits, calculus, and stuff.

Anyhoo, if you ask me, the real shortcoming in American education is that we no longer teach our children proper English grammar. I'm not just saying that. My kids went through honors programs in a great school district, and were never taught grammar. My daughter's English teacher her junior year was so disgusted, she broke away from her syllabus for two weeks to teach her students, all honors students, proper grammar. (Not that I'm the best.)

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#59
Roflcopter
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RE: Why America Is Falling Behind In Math 2009/03/30 22:54:11 (permalink)
Welllllll, that wasn't really an assumption.


It's a sneaky trick to go from an infinity and switch to integers.

You cannot use integers in any proof against their existence, which is basically what it's all about.

Integers exist, and should only not be confused with unicity. One sheep plus another sheep is two sheep, but that does not mean the two are identical sheep.

That's what I think most people fail to realise. Digitization requires identical sub-parts. Interchangeable, without a difference to the final result.

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