Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ?

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AdamGrossmanLG
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2017/10/14 16:11:57 (permalink)

Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ?

So I recently upgraded my DAW system and have the resources to record in 88.2 Khz now.   I opened up a project of mine with a bunch of VST Softsynths and some (not all) of my sounds are different.  Some greatly so!
 
I changed the project back to 48 Khz and it sounds exactly like I had it before.  I go back to 88.2 Khz and the sounds changed again - and not for the better!
 
Am I doing something wrong here?
 
Thank You!
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    Anderton
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 16:59:16 (permalink)
    https://youtu.be/weqI6K0YAKk

    Also check out my Sonar techniques article in the September 2016 Sound on Sound. Bottom line is Nyquist theory & foldover distortion. Sometimes people like the foldover distortion that occurs at lower sample rates, sometimes not.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 17:11:35 (permalink)
    Anderton
    https://youtu.be/weqI6K0YAKk

    Also check out my Sonar techniques article in the September 2016 Sound on Sound. Bottom line is Nyquist theory & foldover distortion. Sometimes people like the foldover distortion that occurs at lower sample rates, sometimes not.



     
    Got it, thank you.
     
    How do I get the sound of the synth to go back to how it was in a 44.1 project?   I only see the option to upsample in the top left corner.  I understand Z3TA has a 0.5x option internally but most synths dont.
     
     
    #3
    Anderton
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 17:27:41 (permalink)
    Render the part to audio at 44.1 kHz.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #4
    scook
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 17:36:00 (permalink)
    Upsample is just the term used for the feature. A plug-in may be set to any sample rate supported by the plug-in in Aud.ini.
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    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 18:12:09 (permalink)
    Anderton
    Render the part to audio at 44.1 kHz.


    well I am not done with the part yet, but would like to hear the sound the way it was in 44.1.
     
    Should I be recording softsynths in a seperate 44.1 project and then importing into my 88.2 project?  I want the 88.2 project for my FX plugins when it comes time for mixing.

    Thank You,
    Adam
     
    #6
    bitflipper
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 18:16:57 (permalink)
    It's probably the result of aliasing. Many soft synths are prone to it as a consequence of waveform distortion (e.g. hard sync). The higher sample rate helps to mitigate the problem because it increases the highest frequency before foldover occurs. But it's not worthwhile to run the whole project at 88.2 or 96 KHz unless you have many instances of a synthesizer you know aliases. Better to just upsample the tracks that need it.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    slartabartfast
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    Re: Why Do My Softsynths Sound Different 44.1 Khz > 88.2 Khz ? 2017/10/14 18:24:19 (permalink)
    It is possible that some of your synths are not designed to produce the same sound at different sample rates. The elimination of foldover distortion (aliasing) at a higher sample rate is one possibility, but depending on the design of the application, the filters and other algorithms may produce different results at different sample rates. If you are feeding data to a synth for which it is not designed, the best practice would be to have it throw an error and not work at all, but that may not always be the case. Arguing over which sound is the true or correct result is a philosophical excursion unless you have more documentation than most plugins will provide, but if you have a statement that the plugin is designed for a certain sample rate then using it at another rate may well result in something the designer did not intend.
     
    In the end, it is the sound you like that is the guide, and deliberate distortions like overdrive, decimation, resonance etc. are part of the palette, so some of the results of exceeding the design sample rate may be useful. Most of us program synths pretty much by ear without completely understanding the specific math that makes the sounds. As others have said, you can export the low sample rate results as audio and import them into a high sample rate project, and the sound should be pretty much the same when re-sampled, even though the synth running at the higher rate is giving you something less than optimal. 
    #8
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