Why Use Synth Rack Assignable Controls?

**see my post below... edited this one because it was irrelavant**

*bump*

bitflipper
They are handy when you have more automations than knobs on your controller. Not everybody has the luxury of MIDI controllers with dozens of assignable controls. For example, here's the one I take with me when I travel:

 
 

 
but you still need a knob for each dial in the synth rack that you assign, no?   

the differences I see is that it records the CC data but ALSO automation data in an automation lane.  Seems redundant to record CC data AND also automation data.   
 
I feel there is something I am not getting here.

Anderton
@ Adam - are you aware you can choose the destination where automation will be recorded using the Automation drop-down menu in the synth rack? Also, if you want to record only automation, don't use the transport record button, just use automation write.
 
One benefit of using the synth rack is you can have an instrument's crucial parameters available for automation without having to have the instrument GUI open. Some of them take up a lot of space, or have controls that live on a second page.
 
Another benefit is exceptional flexibility. Right-click on the assignable controls in the synth rack, you'll see all kinds of options like being able to group, set double-click snap-to values, set min and max values (in conjunction with remote control, you could for example use a footpedal to control a parameter over a limited range), use the Group Manager to create complementary motions or preserve mix relationships, etc.
 
And another benefit is instruments that don't have MIDI Learn acquire that capability via the controls in the Synth Rack.  There's more but check out the documentation on the synth rack and on grouping for the details.

 
Craig, thank you for the response.   The last point is especially important!  i didn't know that some VST's don't have MIDI learn.  I guess the ones I do all have them, so yes, that would make assignable controls an awesome thing.   

I also like the availability of the most critical parameters being right there in the synth rack, it does help a lot.... but let me ask this:   I notice when I use the synth rack controls to control a parameter, because my MPK knob is also set to output CC data, what happens when I record automation is that it records automation in the automation lane for the synth parameter, but ALSO records CC data in my MIDI track.  Granted, the CC data isn't doing anything as it isn't mapped to anything in the synth, but I was wondering:

A:  is there anyway to turn that off so I don't have 2 items (automation and CC) to record at once?

B:  for VST's that DO have MIDI Learn, is there any benefit or downside to using automation vs. MIDI CC (besides them being visible in the synth rack)?

For me, the one UPSIDE to MIDI CC is that the CC data is recording right into the midi track, which means I can export it outside of Sonar and possibly use it elsewhere. I would just need to keep a spreadsheet of CC #s and their respective parameter.  This way, a quick setup of the CC mapping in another program is all you would need in order to bring that exact performance into a different DAW.   

I work with a friend sometimes sending files back and forth but he is not a Sonar user.   If the parameter is manipulated by Sonar, there is no way I can send that to him (short of mixing to audio), but if its in MIDI with CC events, he can just load it up and map the CC to the controller and bam, he has the same performance I recorded!

Thank you for your reply here.... very helpful!
 
-Adam

Sanderxpander
As Craig said, if you want to arite automation, don't hit the record button. Simply enable automation write on the track and use play, not record. If you want to record only cc data don't enable automation write. Unless I'm misunderstanding something this should solve your issue.

ah ok, well that covers question "A".  thank you.  what about question "B"?

B:  for VST's that DO have MIDI Learn, is there any benefit or downside to using automation vs. MIDI CC (besides them being visible in the synth rack)?

Anderton
Well, there are some advantages with either approach, but a lot of it comes down to personal preference. For example if I have a project with a lot of controllers, I prefer automation in track view because there no restrictions on height. But if I have only a few controllers, the PRV gives higher resolution...although most of the time that doesn't matter.
 
The bottom line for me is if the knob wiggles the same way on playback as it does when I moved it, I'm good.

OK understood.  I prefer CC data for the following reasons:
 
1.  Can be edited on a granular level in the event list
2.  Can be exported with the MIDI for use with other VST host apps (just need to write down the CC mappings)
3.   Can use CAL programs to fine tune the CC data
 
As far as the height of the automation lane, well that can be achieved in full screen PRV and expanding the controller region.
 
I thought maybe there was something I was missing with the whole synth rack automation, but it seems to have its limitations (my 3 items above).   
 
Thank you!

Anderton

AdamGrossmanLG
OK understood.  I prefer CC data for the following reasons:
 
1.  Can be edited on a granular level in the event list

 
True, however the automation is almost treated like vector graphics, so you can have extremely precise curves. It's not granular in terms of control, but it's granular in the sense of smoothness.
 

As far as the height of the automation lane, well that can be achieved in full screen PRV and expanding the controller region.

 
Yes, but the more controllers you have, the narrower the strips get. So you need to hide some if you want to free up space. Again, a lot of which to use is situational and/or preferential compared to hard & fast rules.
 

 
Interesting point on #1...  I am not at my DAW right now, but can you not draw perfect lines and curves using the various draw tools such as the line tool or the sine wave tool to draw in custom CC values in the PRV if you want those precise curves?

I will have to play around later.   
 
Oh and very true about the CC track height.  The more you add, the shorter they get.   I will have to experiment.   

Thanks for the help!  It was much appreciated!
 
-Adam

Anderton

AdamGrossmanLG
Interesting point on #1...  I am not at my DAW right now, but can you not draw perfect lines and curves using the various draw tools such as the line tool or the sine wave tool to draw in custom CC values in the PRV if you want those precise curves?

I will have to play around later.   
 
Oh and very true about the CC track height.  The more you add, the shorter they get.   I will have to experiment.   

Thanks for the help!  It was much appreciated!
 
-Adam

No problem, glad we got things sorted out. The cool part about the automation is you can determine the shape between any two nodes - linear, convex, concave, or jump. So you can build up some pretty sophisticated curves with less effort than trying to draw it.

 

Anderton

AdamGrossmanLG
Interesting point on #1...  I am not at my DAW right now, but can you not draw perfect lines and curves using the various draw tools such as the line tool or the sine wave tool to draw in custom CC values in the PRV if you want those precise curves?

I will have to play around later.   
 
Oh and very true about the CC track height.  The more you add, the shorter they get.   I will have to experiment.   

Thanks for the help!  It was much appreciated!
 
-Adam

No problem, glad we got things sorted out. The cool part about the automation is you can determine the shape between any two nodes - linear, convex, concave, or jump. So you can build up some pretty sophisticated curves with less effort than trying to draw it.

likewise!  this thread feels better than some of our prior ones :)
 
Yes the automation I was playing around you can do some pretty interesting things with it... however I mostly adjust my parameters live by hand using a midi controller... therefore I think for me CC is best choice (simply because of the 3 reasons i gave before), however I now have another arsenal in my tool in case I need it.
 
Thanks again!