EFaaT
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Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
Forgive me, but I'm no search whiz. I've tried but can't find an answer.
I keep watching tutorial videos on YouTube and Groove3 and they SEND to new tracks. AFAIK we can't do that. Watching them do something that I can't do is daunting. How do we do it with X3d Producer? Am I missing something? Is there a way to emulate this? Sure would be nice. TIA
~Thom
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/07 17:03:37
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There is no way to do that in Sonar. Apart from simple visual track/bus organisation, it doesn't seem to be a feature we really miss, what is it you can't do right now but would want to?
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wmb
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/07 18:17:03
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The feature is basically the same as sending to a new bus. Pro Tools uses the term BUS slightly differently than Sonar in the way it structures various outputs. Generally speaking sending to a New Track is identical to sending to Create New Stereo Bus or whatever the option is in Sonar. The only functional difference in Pro Tools is that their New Track (aka bus when used as a destination for a source output or send) can reside anywhere in the layout of the tracks with no segregation between tracks and buses like in Sonar. That behavior is also one of my favorite features in Pro Tools.
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EFaaT
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/07 20:17:16
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And that segregation is why I wish we could. I'd like my reverb/effects buses [or tracks or whatever] next to the tracks that are using them, or somewhere in the neighborhood, not stuck out in far right field. Plus, unless I'm mistaken they can also be routed to other tracks, not just other buses. It seems to be much more modular and flexible that way. I'd like that to happen. With the incredible X3 comping ease and the ARA integration [plus other features] Sonar is my keeper, by far, but if this was added it would really be unbeatable. I even have an extra 27" monitor dedicated to the console view and I still get tired of scrolling and dragging the buses out. Really interrupts the work flow. If someone has a better way I'd love to hear it. Thanks
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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bitflipper
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/07 20:46:43
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Reaper takes that approach. It does not distinguish between tracks and busses - they're both just destinations. A great idea, IMO. Unfortunately, just about everything else in Reaper felt so awkward to me that I couldn't ever get into it despite repeated attempts.
I come from a hardware background, where tracks are tracks and busses are busses. I'm therefore accustomed to thinking of them as fundamentally different kinds of things. Also, I don't use the Console view. Ever. In Track View I can position a bus right under a track if I want to.
At the end of the day, I don't consider SONAR's bus implementation to be limited at all.
Well, OK, I'd like to be able to freeze busses. Other than that, no complaints.
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Kev999
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 00:24:04
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I prefer track and buses to be separate. However, if Cakewalk ever introduce a new feature in Console View that would allow the option of viewing a mixture of tracks and buses merged together and and allowing the user to put them in any order, then I would probably welcome this feature and make good use of it.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 03:50:12
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Yeah so it's purely for visual organization. No arguments from me there, that would be nice. But I would like a track to remain a track and a bus to be a bus. It would be helpful if we could organize them more freely.
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cowboydan
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 07:23:06
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We have a long way to go to get the ULTIMATE DAW. When we get there there would be only one DAW to choose from. Then we can complain about which name to give it. if you could please everyone , then the bakers would be out of work.
Not so good.
Lets just have fun complaining.
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John
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 08:20:10
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I like the way Sonar does it and have no desire to send anything to a track. I like buses to be buses and tracks to be tracks.
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EFaaT
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 10:59:21
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It wasn't meant to be a complaint. I thought maybe I was missing something, or someone more experienced had a workaround.
It seems very fluid and useful in the tutorials, which teach some very cool techniques done simply and easily because of this feature, but then I sit in front of Sonar and have no idea how to accomplish the same thing. I'm sure it's just me, but I'd find it useful.
Thanks everyone.
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 12:17:33
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Anytime you need to play a wave file or hear sound from an instrument (whether actual or VST) it's a track. Anytime you need to combine output from several track into a single signal, it's a bus.
Approach those tutorials that way and you should have no problems.
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bapu
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/08 12:54:59
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bitflipper
Reaper takes that approach. It does not distinguish between tracks and busses - they're both just destinations. A great idea, IMO. Unfortunately, just about everything else in Reaper felt so awkward to me that I couldn't ever get into it despite repeated attempts.
I come from a hardware background, where tracks are tracks and busses are busses. I'm therefore accustomed to thinking of them as fundamentally different kinds of things. Also, I don't use the Console view. Ever. In Track View I can position a bus right under a track if I want to.
At the end of the day, I don't consider SONAR's bus implementation to be limited at all.
Well, OK, I'd like to be able to freeze busses. Other than that, no complaints.
+100% on all points for me. Of course we'll probably never see frozen buses. Go ahead CW, prove me wrong on that one.
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bvideo
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 10:40:53
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Would be easier to "record the output from a VSTi" in real time if track outputs could be sent to track inputs.
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Splat 
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 11:11:58
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Ruben
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 11:51:49
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bitflipper
I come from a hardware background, where tracks are tracks and busses are busses. I'm therefore accustomed to thinking of them as fundamentally different kinds of things. I think several of us used hardware before computers became all the rage, and what the OP is asking is something that many people, including myself, did with a hardware mixer. For example, you have a group of BVGs on 3 or 4 tracks. You send them all to your outboard reverb then return the reverb to a track right next to the vocal tracks, so they are all in the same place on your board. If I understand correctly, that's what the OP wants to do with Sonar. bitflipperIn Track View I can position a bus right under a track if I want to. That may be the OP's answer but how do you do that? Because I can't drag a bus out of the bus pane, and I can't insert a bus next to a track. bitflipperUnfortunately, just about everything else in Reaper felt so awkward to me that I couldn't ever get into it despite repeated attempts.
+1
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SilentMind
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 16:34:37
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Agree with those that like the track / bus distinction. My recording adventures began with analog desks so it fits my approach like a glove.
I would however like to be able to save & load Bus Presets in a similar manner to Track presets.
I'd use these to switch round summing setups (e.g. Waves NLS, Prochannel Console emulations), small sets of monitoring buses and other composite effects (e.g. reverbs & delays that crossfeed into each other).
Anyone else feel the need for bus presets ?
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scook
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 16:41:19
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I guess a "track preset" is a track template. If that is the case, buses can be saved in track templates. A track template does require at least one track so a dummy track would have to be saved when creating a "bus only" track template.
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wmb
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 17:38:38
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In the case of the OP this is just a nomenclature issue. Aux's in PT are the same as our busses. Heck, PT refers to a Master as a track. Because there is a lack of distinction between tracks and busses Pro Tools has a much more workable relationship with a control surface. Sonar/Xx is lacking in that department in my opinion. I prefer to have every fader available on my control surface whether it's a channel, bus or main output.
From an engineering standpoint I see places where signals combine as busses but the other analogy in this thread about sending a group to an effect and returning it to a channel/track is also a real world approach too.
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BJN
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 18:01:37
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Yes the return or bus outs could be expanded to return to a new track! 
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bluzdog
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 22:17:17
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I've never seen this as an issue but a lot of useful ideas have been brought up in this thread. There are some valid feature requests here. I would like the flexibility to send tracks to other tracks and/ or move buses into the track area of the console view.
Rocky
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joel77
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/10 23:07:21
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Thom,
I'd thought of this as well, as I started(and still use in a live setting) a hardware console. Like others here, I am used to being able to return to a channel. I've also been in situations where I though it would be handy to have a signal return to a buss(track) setup next to the sending track. As you said, it would save scrolling back and forth.
I have a couple of work a rounds that do well for me. I have 2 screen sets assigned to console mode. One for tracks and one for busses. I've found it easier to switch between screen sets than scroll. Especially with high track counts. The other thing that works for me, is to slide the divider between track and busses in console view, so only a few busses are showing. Then scroll to the buss you need to view, while still being able to see the tracks that your working with.
Hope I explained that clearly.
Joel Glaser Studio 52 God Bless America ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sonar x64, Win 7 Pro, Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7-930 2.86GHz dual quad core, 12GB Corsair DDL3, Asus ATI Radion HD 4350, WD 500 GB SATA, Dual WD 1TB SATA HDs, ME RayDAT, Alesis HD24XR - A/D-D/A https://www.facebook.com/...dio-52/811309178917929www.thebrothersglaser.com
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John
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/11 06:11:36
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Ruben
bitflipper
I come from a hardware background, where tracks are tracks and busses are busses. I'm therefore accustomed to thinking of them as fundamentally different kinds of things.
I think several of us used hardware before computers became all the rage, and what the OP is asking is something that many people, including myself, did with a hardware mixer. For example, you have a group of BVGs on 3 or 4 tracks. You send them all to your outboard reverb then return the reverb to a track right next to the vocal tracks, so they are all in the same place on your board. If I understand correctly, that's what the OP wants to do with Sonar.
bitflipperIn Track View I can position a bus right under a track if I want to.
That may be the OP's answer but how do you do that? Because I can't drag a bus out of the bus pane, and I can't insert a bus next to a track.
bitflipperUnfortunately, just about everything else in Reaper felt so awkward to me that I couldn't ever get into it despite repeated attempts.
+1
I used mixers and still do and I have never recorded anything with a mixer. Tape yes mixer no. With Sonar and the ability to send audio out with the External Insert plug-in you can do exactly the same thing with Sonar that you describe above.
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Del
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/14 12:48:48
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joel77
Thom,
I have 2 screen sets assigned to console mode. One for tracks and one for buses. I've found it easier to switch between screen sets than scroll. Especially with high track counts.
Hi (Brother) Joel; I do this as well and it works for me, quite efficiently. I like using the screen sets, very easy to toggle between various views.
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joel77
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/14 22:31:15
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Del
Hi (Brother) Joel;
I do this as well and it works for me, quite efficiently. I like using the screen sets, very easy to toggle between various views.
Hey Dave! I haven't run into you on here before! Yep, love those screen sets! ........ Now if we can just get Gary and Paul to use them!! lol
Joel Glaser Studio 52 God Bless America ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sonar x64, Win 7 Pro, Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7-930 2.86GHz dual quad core, 12GB Corsair DDL3, Asus ATI Radion HD 4350, WD 500 GB SATA, Dual WD 1TB SATA HDs, ME RayDAT, Alesis HD24XR - A/D-D/A https://www.facebook.com/...dio-52/811309178917929www.thebrothersglaser.com
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Del
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/18 11:25:47
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Ruben
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/18 12:27:42
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joel77
I have a couple of work a rounds that do well for me. I have 2 screen sets assigned to console mode. One for tracks and one for busses. I've found it easier to switch between screen sets than scroll. Especially with high track counts. This is interesting - I haven't used screen sets but was recently reading about them in a Sonar Power book. I definitely going to give this a try - thanks for the tip!  joel77
The other thing that works for me, is to slide the divider between track and busses in console view, so only a few busses are showing. Then scroll to the buss you need to view, while still being able to see the tracks that your working with. I've tried this but I still end up scrolling more than I care to. But this is not bad depending on one's workflow. joel77
Hope I explained that clearly.
Yes, Thanks!
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joel77
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Re: Why can't we SEND to a new track instead of only busses?
2014/03/18 12:54:57
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Ruben,
I try to give a little something back to this forum. I've learned so much from others here. Sometimes I think my ways of doing things in Sonar are out in left field somewhere! lol
Joel Glaser Studio 52 God Bless America ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sonar x64, Win 7 Pro, Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7-930 2.86GHz dual quad core, 12GB Corsair DDL3, Asus ATI Radion HD 4350, WD 500 GB SATA, Dual WD 1TB SATA HDs, ME RayDAT, Alesis HD24XR - A/D-D/A https://www.facebook.com/...dio-52/811309178917929www.thebrothersglaser.com
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