bitflipper
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Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
After reading that the X1 installer insists on Dim Pro being upgraded from 1.2 to 1.5, I figured what the heck, might as well stay up-to-date even though I'm skipping X1. So I installed 1.5.
Big mistake - I couldn't properly open any projects that had Dim Pro (DXi) in them. The 1.5 install had deleted the DX version.
No problem, CW has a solution: "simply remove the previously referenced instance of Dimension Pro/LE from your project and then add it again". Wait a minute. Simply? That's not so simple! Just which patch did I have loaded into each DP instance? I don't remember, and there is no way to find out. It would be just as easy to bag DP and load up Kontakt instead.
So I figure I'll just uninstall DP and re-install it, backrevving to 1.2 and leaving it there. If and when I upgrade to X2, I'll worry about it then. But Windows says Dim Pro has already been uninstalled, so there is no automated uninstall to be had. As I write this, I am re-installing DP 1.2 from the 8.5 disks.
While waiting for DP to re-install, I begin to fume because I can think of no good reason for uninstalling the DX version in the first place. Why not allow them to coexist? I have multiple versions of Ozone, Kontakt, GlissEQ and SPAN, and they all coexist just fine. I have both DX and VST versions of several plugins, and they all coexist.
The DX and VST versions of Dim Pro are separate entities that merely share a common sample library. Yes, they have the same name, but one is referenced via its CLSID, the other by its path. SONAR would not be confused if both were present, any more than it was when DP installed both DX and VST versions.
Can anyone suggest a valid technical reason that would make it necessary to break old projects in order to upgrade a synth?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Positively Charged
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 20:46:06
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Steinberg did this a couple years ago with Cubase. Steinberg did not even tell the user base that they were dropping DirectX plugin support, so people bought Cubase expecting their Autotune would still work. When it didn't, they took up torches and tried to burn down the Cubase support forum. The women and children have mostly not returned since that awful day. As I understand it, Microsoft has deprecated support, which means that it still works but is not supported. I think it's possible that Microsoft is preventing re-licensing of that code/API/whatever. If my hunch is correct, Cakewalk would be legally prevented from issuing "new apps" that use that feature or API. It's just a guess. I knew this was coming, so I never did install or use the DXi version of DimPro, not even under 1.0 or 1.2. PS - This goes for TTS-1, too. That is DXi, but since it has not been updated/upgraded, it continues to be available in DXi. But someday down the road, probably under a new Windows OS or under a new Windows Service Pack, TTS-1 will possibly stop working. So I treat it as a curiosity, a toy. And I don't plan to make anything permanent with it. If I do so by accident, then I'll render it to audio.
post edited by Positively Charged - 2010/12/29 20:50:30
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Positively Charged
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 20:54:35
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Bitflipper, it just occurred to me that you "may" be able to recover the DXi DLL from a backup and just slip it into the appropriate folder. You might name it to "Dimension Pro (1.2 DXi).dll" and see if that works. With any luck, it will not be aware that it isn't "truly installed," but will reference the appropriate registry entries and find its database after all.
I've gotten other old software to work like this, although they were VST's, not DXi's. Might be worth a try!
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bitflipper
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 21:19:37
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Well, re-installing 1.2 did the trick and I'm back in business. But I'm still disappointed with CW for what I consider a poorly designed installer. If nothing else, the installer should have popped up a warning: "You are about to break every project that ever used the DX version. Are you sure you want to do this?"
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 21:28:25
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It's been long enough since I upgraded to be over the pain of the DimPro upgrade - but I'm definitely scarred from the experience. I never did get the DimPro .dll to be recognized in its proper folder. Disappointed is an understatement.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 21:46:49
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If nothing else, the installer should have popped up a warning: "You are about to break every project that ever used the DX version.
Well, the Release Notes does say that: "Support has been discontinued for the following in Dimension Pro/LE 1.5 - DXi
- RTAS
- Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger)
- PowerPC based Macs
"
I guess discontinued support translates to uninstall that DXi version for you, as well, as meaning you get no technical support for the DXi version. LOL Seriously, it's no big deal to me because I hardly have any old projects using the DXi version. Furthermore, they probably uninstall it because they haven't done any development on the DXi version since the 1.2 release, and they don't want users reporting some of the old bugs which were fixed in the 1.5 release. Who, knows why the the DXi version is uninstalled? It's good to hear you were able to get the issue fixed, though.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2010/12/29 22:04:37
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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bitflipper
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 22:07:58
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Yeh, I saw that bit about DX support being discontinued. But like you say, who would interpret that to mean it would be deleting perfectly usable components without warning?
I have no problem with newer versions being VST-only. I'll gladly switch in future projects. But to break old projects unnecessarily, what's the point in that?
Imagine if the X1 installer had been quietly deleting the Sonitus EQ from everyone's systems because it was considered obsolete with the introduction of the new channel strip.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Positively Charged
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 22:21:15
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bitflipper
Imagine if the X1 installer had been quietly deleting the Sonitus EQ from everyone's systems because it was considered obsolete with the introduction of the new channel strip.
After reading some of the other threads here, how certain are you that it hasn't? :D
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mudgel
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 22:28:07
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Especially when you relaize that that there are many DX and DXi plugins still bieng used not only in SONAR X1 at present but Sony Sound Forge 10c has a slew of extraordinarily useful plugins that are all DX. There are even iZotope plugins that are still being offered with a DX version available.
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Funkybot
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 23:29:07
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No problem, CW has a solution: "simply remove the previously referenced instance of Dimension Pro/LE from your project and then add it again". Wait a minute. Simply? That's not so simple! Just which patch did I have loaded into each DP instance? I don't remember, and there is no way to find out. It would be just as easy to bag DP and load up Kontak bitflipper
Yeh, I saw that bit about DX support being discontinued. But like you say, who would interpret that to mean it would be deleting perfectly usable components without warning?
I have no problem with newer versions being VST-only. I'll gladly switch in future projects. But to break old projects unnecessarily, what's the point in that?
Imagine if the X1 installer had been quietly deleting the Sonitus EQ from everyone's systems because it was considered obsolete with the introduction of the new channel strip.
I haven't been using DX plugins for years knowing that it's essentially been a dead format for quite some time (I probably came to this conclusion somewhere around Sonar 2 or 4). Luckily you were able to get your projects back by downgrading, but I think your experience would be a good time for people to take heed, and start swapping out DirectX versions of their plugins for their VST counterparts now before this becomes an even more common event. Still, I agree 100%. Cakewalk's solution was not valid, and there should have been a more detailed warning message.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/29 23:39:50
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Hey Bit I feel your pain man. All my projects that had a DX version of PSP Vintage Warmer crash 8.5 and X1. For some reason 8.3.1 still open the DX PSP VW versions. What the hell? Does 8.3.1 like VW and the newer ones are getting snobby and going BMW? Of course my workaround is opening them in my still installed(2 versions ago now 8.3.1 Sonar - Sonar users read closely here - keep at least 1 previous version if not 2 versions of sonar installed always) and replacing the DX with VST and copying settings. DX is dead. But for Cakewalk to actually delete the DX version in an installer of their own product? That is unacceptable!
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2010/12/29 23:44:06
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StarTekh
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 00:06:35
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bitflipper
After reading that the X1 installer insists on Dim Pro being upgraded from 1.2 to 1.5, I figured what the heck, might as well stay up-to-date even though I'm skipping X1. So I installed 1.5.
Big mistake - I couldn't properly open any projects that had Dim Pro (DXi) in them. The 1.5 install had deleted the DX version.
No problem, CW has a solution: "simply remove the previously referenced instance of Dimension Pro/LE from your project and then add it again". Wait a minute. Simply? That's not so simple! Just which patch did I have loaded into each DP instance? I don't remember, and there is no way to find out. It would be just as easy to bag DP and load up Kontakt instead.
So I figure I'll just uninstall DP and re-install it, backrevving to 1.2 and leaving it there. If and when I upgrade to X2, I'll worry about it then. But Windows says Dim Pro has already been uninstalled, so there is no automated uninstall to be had. As I write this, I am re-installing DP 1.2 from the 8.5 disks.
While waiting for DP to re-install, I begin to fume because I can think of no good reason for uninstalling the DX version in the first place. Why not allow them to coexist? I have multiple versions of Ozone, Kontakt, GlissEQ and SPAN, and they all coexist just fine. I have both DX and VST versions of several plugins, and they all coexist.
The DX and VST versions of Dim Pro are separate entities that merely share a common sample library. Yes, they have the same name, but one is referenced via its CLSID, the other by its path. SONAR would not be confused if both were present, any more than it was when DP installed both DX and VST versions.
Can anyone suggest a valid technical reason that would make it necessary to break old projects in order to upgrade a synth?
>> I told ya they have install issues . works well here >> notwithstanding..jon
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brundlefly
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 03:00:59
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The 1.5 install had deleted the DX version. That's weird. That didn't happen to me. I still have the v1.2 Dxi along with the v1.5 VSTi, and I didn't do anything special to preserve it. Seems to me there would have been more people screaming about this back in July or whenever it was, especially since the x64 VSTi wasn't working right, and everyone had been using the the DXi for a while.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 03:28:34
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Hi bitflipper and Brundlefly: After brundlefly's last post, I had to go look, and you know, I still have a DXi version 1.2 of Dim Pro showing (via the Tools/Cakewalk Plug In Manager), too. And, it does load in new projects, but I have no old project using the DXi version, so I can't test the Cakewalk solution you mention above. I wonder what our situations could mean, in view that we two still have the 1.2 DXi version, but you don't. Could you have uninstalled it and have forgotton?
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2010/12/30 03:32:30
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TheSteven
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 07:21:25
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Some vendors, such as Blue Cat Audio, are creating 64 bit DX plug-ins. http://www.bluecataudio.c...s/Bundle_FreewarePack/ and a number of Cakewalk FX show up in the registry as 64 DXs - so MS approved/supported or not 64 bit DXs are do-able. Don't know the ins and out of DX programming but I suspect that its a marketing matter more than anything else, i.e. not enough consumer $$ interest to warrant the effort of maintaining of a separate development stream.
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kevo
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 11:41:04
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bitflipper
After reading that the X1 installer insists on Dim Pro being upgraded from 1.2 to 1.5, I figured what the heck, might as well stay up-to-date even though I'm skipping X1. So I installed 1.5.
Big mistake - I couldn't properly open any projects that had Dim Pro (DXi) in them. The 1.5 install had deleted the DX version.
No problem, CW has a solution: "simply remove the previously referenced instance of Dimension Pro/LE from your project and then add it again". Wait a minute. Simply? That's not so simple! Just which patch did I have loaded into each DP instance? I don't remember, and there is no way to find out. It would be just as easy to bag DP and load up Kontakt instead.
So I figure I'll just uninstall DP and re-install it, backrevving to 1.2 and leaving it there. If and when I upgrade to X2, I'll worry about it then. But Windows says Dim Pro has already been uninstalled, so there is no automated uninstall to be had. As I write this, I am re-installing DP 1.2 from the 8.5 disks.
While waiting for DP to re-install, I begin to fume because I can think of no good reason for uninstalling the DX version in the first place. Why not allow them to coexist? I have multiple versions of Ozone, Kontakt, GlissEQ and SPAN, and they all coexist just fine. I have both DX and VST versions of several plugins, and they all coexist.
The DX and VST versions of Dim Pro are separate entities that merely share a common sample library. Yes, they have the same name, but one is referenced via its CLSID, the other by its path. SONAR would not be confused if both were present, any more than it was when DP installed both DX and VST versions.
Can anyone suggest a valid technical reason that would make it necessary to break old projects in order to upgrade a synth?
Can't give you a good reason why they did this. However, it sounds like you've figured out to just install the Dx version of 1.2. I have both 1.5 and 1.2 of dimension installed and it works fine. Old projects that use the Dx version load Dimension 1.2 and new inserts use dimension 1.5.
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bitflipper
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 13:49:54
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Could you have uninstalled it and have forgotton? Not likely. I had been working on a project that morning that contained two instances of the DX Dim Pro. That's why I so quickly became aware of the problem after installing 1.5. Keep in mind that it isn't necessary to physically delete a DX DLL to make it effectively disappear; all you have to do is unregister it. However, in my case the DLL was actually gone. As to whether DX is "dead" or not, I hope that's not the case. There are things developers can do with DX that are difficult or impossible to accomplish with VSTs, just as there are advantages to Audio Units. But DX is a Windows-only solution, and nobody wants to limit their potential market to just Windows users. DX will only be truly "dead" when Microsoft decides to make it stop working. As long as Windows supports it, there is no reason not to use DX plugins. Needless to say, however, that I will be using the VST version of DP for all future projects. But here's a question: how can you tell if you're using the DX or VST version in an existing project? They both look the same.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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kevo
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 14:16:34
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bitflipper
Could you have uninstalled it and have forgotton?
Not likely. I had been working on a project that morning that contained two instances of the DX Dim Pro. That's why I so quickly became aware of the problem after installing 1.5.
Keep in mind that it isn't necessary to physically delete a DX DLL to make it effectively disappear; all you have to do is unregister it. However, in my case the DLL was actually gone.
As to whether DX is "dead" or not, I hope that's not the case. There are things developers can do with DX that are difficult or impossible to accomplish with VSTs, just as there are advantages to Audio Units. But DX is a Windows-only solution, and nobody wants to limit their potential market to just Windows users. DX will only be truly "dead" when Microsoft decides to make it stop working. As long as Windows supports it, there is no reason not to use DX plugins.
Needless to say, however, that I will be using the VST version of DP for all future projects.
But here's a question: how can you tell if you're using the DX or VST version in an existing project? They both look the same.
Click on DIMENSION Pro in the upper right-hand corner of the interface.
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leapinlizard
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 16:20:12
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Hey, Bit:
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but I thought you were going to hold off on X1 ... what changed your mind? Just curious.
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...wicked
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 16:40:55
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Lanceindastudio
All my projects that had a DX version of PSP Vintage Warmer crash 8.5 and X1.
Me too! And this is only since 8.5. I'm glad I'm not crazy about that. But yeah, DP was a bit of a snafu this time around. I eventually nuked 1.2 and got 1.5 in there, but as I pull up old projects I'm having to do some patch sleuthing. Sux.
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bitflipper
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 17:08:51
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Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but I thought you were going to hold off on X1 ... what changed your mind? Just curious. Haven't changed my mind. Still planning to skip this rev of SONAR. But I knew that eventually I'd need to upgrade Dim Pro for the x64 compatibility, and if I decide to buy into X2 next year the installer will insist on it.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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leapinlizard
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 17:32:33
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Oh, sorry, I thought you had installed X1 as well. Carry on!
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 19:58:53
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I guess bitflipper just posted in the most active thread, And remember, Dim Pro is included with X1.
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datadog
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 21:22:38
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This happened to me also, using the downloaded DP 1.5 upgrade patch. I was a little ticked off but since I only used the VST version of DP, I got over it. There should have been a warning in the installer!
I wonder if the X1 installer for DP 1.5 may be different and not uninstall 1.2 DX? There are many different packages out there- X1 disks, X1 downloads, DP 1.5 upgrade only downloads. Maybe Cake got hell for this and silently changed the script in the installer?
Brundlefly, what installer package did you use that didn't delete the DX version?
Another wierd thing I noticed with the DP 1.5 upgrade only installer is that it left "unvise.exe" on the root directory of the partition DP was installed on. In my case, it was my E:\ Samples drive. So if i tried to uninstall it, it wouldn't know where to find the log file and fail the uninstall. I moved that file to the Dimension Pro directory and it now will proceed with the uninstall. I noticed the same behavior after installing FXpansion DR008 v1.20 from way back in the dark ages of DAW's so maybe they're using and old installer...
Happy New Year everyone!
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bitflipper
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/30 23:24:14
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As a software developer myself, I have to admit that installers are almost always a last-minute afterthought. Creating the install scripts is a job usually handed off to a junior programmer. Installers are not routinely tested and re-tested like other product components, since neither the developers nor the beta testers use them. Consequently, installers are often buggy. It's a common problem among all vendors, myself included.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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brundlefly
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Re:Why does X1 uninstall the DX version of Dim Pro?
2010/12/31 03:36:31
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Brundlefly, what installer package did you use that didn't delete the DX version? The version is 0.0.0.0.  It's 7,944,232 bytes, and Last Modified is July 16, 2010.
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