Why is Middle C "C5" in Sonar?

Hi,

Why is it that if I play middle C on my piano, it shows up as note C5 in Sonar - but when I trigger VSampler from Sonar, VSampler registers the same note as C3! Which is correct?

I did a bit of research on Wikipedia - this notation (which Sonar calls "diatonic") is apparently also known as "Scientific Pitch Notation":

[Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation]

"there is no one standard which correlates any particular octave number to a specific frequency range. For instance, traditional pitch class notation, Japanese MIDI specs and American MIDI specs may specify dissimilar ordinals for middle C (C3 vs. C4)"

However, the same article - and most other acticles I found on the web - refer to middle C as C4 (e.g. the article above says "A4 refers to the A above middle C"). In addition, most of the sample libraries I looked at with WAV files had middle C with a filename using either C4 or C3. So, it seems there is a defacto standard of calling middle C either C4 or C3, with C4 appearing more common. So why is Cakewalk using C5? Can this be overridden anywhere?

One thing everyone seems to agree on unambiguously is that middle C is MIDI note number 60. So everything seems to "work"... you just need to realize the diatonic note names such as "C4" are just labels, which seem to be inconsistent from one program/sample library to another.

One of the reasons I'm asking is for building my own a multisamples. I'm tempted to label middle C as e.g. ".... C4. wav" because it seems the most common convention. How do other people do it?

But if I do that, then when I place my samples into VSampler I have to remember to drag "... C4.wav" on to the note VSampler displays as "C3". And then, to trigger this note from Sonar and/or Project5, I have to hit "C5". How confusing!!!

Any enlightenment appreciated!

Thanks,
tj

ORIGINAL: jamesgxyz

Hi,

Why is it that if I play middle C on my piano, it shows up as note C5 in Sonar - but when I trigger VSampler from Sonar, VSampler registers the same note as C3! Which is correct?

I did a bit of research on Wikipedia - this notation (which Sonar calls "diatonic") is apparently also known as "Scientific Pitch Notation":

[Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation]

"there is no one standard which correlates any particular octave number to a specific frequency range. For instance, traditional pitch class notation, Japanese MIDI specs and American MIDI specs may specify dissimilar ordinals for middle C (C3 vs. C4)"

However, the same article - and most other acticles I found on the web - refer to middle C as C4 (e.g. the article above says "A4 refers to the A above middle C"). In addition, most of the sample libraries I looked at with WAV files had middle C with a filename using either C4 or C3. So, it seems there is a defacto standard of calling middle C either C4 or C3, with C4 appearing more common. So why is Cakewalk using C5? Can this be overridden anywhere?

One thing everyone seems to agree on unambiguously is that middle C is MIDI note number 60. So everything seems to "work"... you just need to realize the diatonic note names such as "C4" are just labels, which seem to be inconsistent from one program/sample library to another.

One of the reasons I'm asking is for building my own a multisamples. I'm tempted to label middle C as e.g. ".... C4. wav" because it seems the most common convention. How do other people do it?

But if I do that, then when I place my samples into VSampler I have to remember to drag "... C4.wav" on to the note VSampler displays as "C3". And then, to trigger this note from Sonar and/or Project5, I have to hit "C5". How confusing!!!

Any enlightenment appreciated!

Thanks,
tj

TJ,

The setting to shift Sonar's base midi octave is Global Options Dialog |General | Base Octave For Pitches. The help file makes the same comment about no standard numbering for the Midi octave base and tells you how to correctly set the value for this parameter.

Ahh! Thanks v much, Susan and Gary! I'll give that a try.

tj

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi tj-

Can this be overridden anywhere?

There's no universal rule, so it can be confusing. SONAR starts counting with MIDI Note 0 as C0. You can change the "Base Octave for Pitches" on the Options | Global | General tab. I have mine at -2 to match my Yamaha Motif, where Middle C is C3.

-Susan

If anyone is not sure, note 60 = C3 is pretty much the industry standard. Setting Sonar to -2 will help remove some of the confusion, all the setting does is change the PRV display. The notes recorded will sound the same.

All softsynths I am aware of use 60=C3

Dr-008 will line up correctly with 60=C3 if you use the Cubase Mapping Option(GM kick on C1).
Midi-ox default to 60=C4, but can be adjusted in Options\General.

I am not aware of any other system tuning to make it a 60=C3 world.

Don

Bump, because this was driving me crazy, and also I miss Susan. 

It would be great if "Note Properties" in SOnar showed the note number.  It shows fret and string which I guess helps some people, but note number seems like an obvious omission.