Helpful ReplyWhy isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne?

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guitz
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2017/04/05 22:16:30 (permalink)

Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne?

Lifetime Platinum...tried to use and understand melodyne, woeful results lol...It got me wondering, why on earth didn't Cakewalk bundle a dead simple 'grab a knob, grab an interval' way/plugin/etc to instantly audition harmonized  guitar lines, etc with 'knob preset' intervals with a sort of Eventidelike H9 guitar FX processor or Kempers superb pitch shifter sound quality? I HATE trying to use melodyne. I want quick 'grab an interval knob' and go thing...
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Cactus Music
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/05 22:46:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ABull 2017/04/08 02:35:41
Your complaint is yet another request  of  the millions of features that someone thinks a DAW should have. Everyone of those add ons costs someone money. 
Melodyn is a little complex and ya, it's not a simple way to create a harmony. Actually the simplest way to create a harmony is--- sing/play it yourself, and then use melodyn or V Vocal to fine tune.   
 
Good Harmonising stomp boxes are not cheap, There a certainly lots of software alternatives and if you look there might even be one for free. 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2017/04/06 00:53:19

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#2
dwardzala
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 00:03:49 (permalink)
Because that simple knob would suck worse than your "woeful" results with Melodyne.  Harmonization that's realistic is difficult.
 
If you want to "audition" harmonies on audio material you could theoretically copy the track and then transpose it.

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bluzdog
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 00:18:26 (permalink)
The Eventide H3000 Factory would be a better solution for what you want to do. It's definitely not a one knob solution but it has lots of presets. Melodyne has a learning curve but it's worth the effort.
 
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Anderton
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 00:41:38 (permalink)
Melodyne Editor has snap to scale and all other kinds of cool stuff. Ultimately, though, nothing will sound better IMHO than playing the part. i experiment with Melodyne to create the harmony, then I learn it and play it.

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bitman
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 00:42:37 (permalink)
Have you given a gander at the FREE pitchproof intelligent harmonizer vst?
 
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Brian Walton
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 00:55:34 (permalink)
guitz
Lifetime Platinum...tried to use and understand melodyne, woeful results lol...It got me wondering, why on earth didn't Cakewalk bundle a dead simple 'grab a knob, grab an interval' way/plugin/etc to instantly audition harmonized  guitar lines, etc with 'knob preset' intervals with a sort of Eventidelike H9 guitar FX processor or Kempers superb pitch shifter sound quality? I HATE trying to use melodyne. I want quick 'grab an interval knob' and go thing...


Try hooking up a mic through the H9 or Kemper and let us know how great you think the results are.
 
You can buy an Eventide Plugin.  Many guitar players (including myself) rely on stompboxes for such effects, the mass appeal for a plugin (think about pitch shifting a micd amp....terrible idea) is limited to people that really work "in the box"
 
Few people outside of guitar players use harmonizer pedals/plugins, and melodyne is top tier for Vocals.
 
 
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guitz
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 02:48:57 (permalink)
The Kemper (when I had one) had the most incredible intelligent pitch shift, especially on bent notes, just amazingly high quality...I still want a software plug-in that I don't have to dicker with like with melodyne...just give some software knobs and I'm good to go lol. There's something to be said for 'quick' flipping between intervals when writing/noodling/jamming where you may suddenly hear an amazingly cool blend that is just way too tedious with melodyne or playing manually.
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guitz
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 02:52:07 (permalink)
bitman
Have you given a gander at the FREE pitchproof intelligent harmonizer vst?
 




I have not but will check that out, thanks
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auto_da_fe
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 02:53:05 (permalink)
Not being a music theorist, Melodyne is a wonder for me for vocal hamonies
I often take the melody, raise it a 3rd or 5th and then play with it until it sounds good as a harmony and then I have something I can sing along to.  In the absence of someone who knows what they are doing writing harmony, I find it very useful.
I usually do not find anything usable just simply raising a third or a fifth, but once I have moved the interval I can then move blobs around until something sounds good.  
Finally, I crank the melodyne harmony track up in the mix and then sing along with it like it was the melody and the results have been quite impressive. 
 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 06:06:16 (permalink)
Honestly especially with the snap-to-scale that Anderton mentioned, I can't think of many easier ways to create a harmony part. Set the right scale, select all notes and drag up or down to your preferred interval. It's still going to sound way better if you just sing/rerecord the harmony part.
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 08:40:50 (permalink)
Izotope Nectar has an instant harmoniser.

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fireberd
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 10:27:25 (permalink)
I have an older Antares add on that does vocal harmonies. It will do 2, 3, or 5 part harmonies.  However, I can't say its "great".

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stevesweat
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 10:57:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ABull 2017/04/08 02:36:56
Actually singing/performing the harmonies is the most straightforward way. What you want costs way more than Sonar - you shouldn't expect it from Sonar.

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chuckebaby
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 12:53:36 (permalink)
I know is stinks but if you spend some time with Melodyne the results will pay back 10 fold. trust me I use it a lot and after a while it gets easier because you learn the tools.
 
What used to take me 20 minutes on a simple verse, now takes 2 minutes (if that).
It takes some investment like any good tool does. Good luck man

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#15
Marshall
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 14:14:42 (permalink)
Z plane vielklang is another option.
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Anderton
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 16:37:58 (permalink)
guitz
The Kemper (when I had one) had the most incredible intelligent pitch shift, especially on bent notes, just amazingly high quality...I still want a software plug-in that I don't have to dicker with like with melodyne...just give some software knobs and I'm good to go lol.



You're going to get better results with hardware that can throw all its processing to the task at hand. The Kemper doesn't have to run dozens of tracks, a ton of plug-ins, run automation, scan ports, etc.
 
There are plenty of harmonizing stomp boxes; buy one. Problem solved!
 
 

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mettelus
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 17:00:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Anderton 2017/04/06 17:59:22
A straight up pitch shifter is not complex, but often limited. Melodyne is very complex with the pitch shift being one capability. If doing a generic harmonic shift to a guide track, a VST focused on that is simplest. Some allow for midi control of the interval real-time (Nectar 2 is one that does this), but again is a carbon copy from the guide track.

Once you get out of bounds of "pitch shifted carbon copy" is where Melodyne gains ground.

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jpetersen
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/06 19:45:53 (permalink)
The algorithm hasn't changed much since the first version I have.
I  really think Melodyne could spend some time on the interface.
Every time I use it I recalibrate the GUI side of my brain.
 
Old dialog for finding a folder,
closes when you close the last file,
terrible when working through a batch of files...
 
And inside Sonar it's slow and has issues.
 
Stomp boxes are -20bB.
Most interfaces are either -10 or +4dB.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/07 11:59:14 (permalink)
Skyline_UK
Izotope Nectar has an instant harmoniser.



I use Nectar harmony module often on vocals, I think it sounds/works fine also in auditioning voice and detecting, key and scale quickly especially for someone (like me) who may not know a lot about the theory, but can hear. (also gain, delay and panning harmonies) I may solo voice, bounce to new track and tweak it with Melodyne. 
Ive even used it at times on slower melodic guitar parts with some success.
I dont recall if its included with basic Nectar version included with Sonar.
 
Cheers 

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#20
mettelus
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/07 14:37:12 (permalink)
The basic Nectar Elements was included during the time of X3 as a freebie from XLN (log into your XLN account from Addictive Drums 2 to see if it is listed near the bottom in your account). Definitely redeem that so that you get customer pricing on upgrades. That version doesn't have a harmonizer though (unless I am completely forgetting something), but is still a fairly light-weight and very capable VST.
 
The follow-on Nectar 2 is what has the harmonizing module, but it may also be extreme overkill for what the OP is doing (there are free/dirt cheap pitch shifters out there). That video shows a good big picture, but he doesn't even touch the "Pitch and Delay" tab (each harmony can have them different as well). BUT... basics can easily be done with a pitch shifter and "more tracks" in SONAR... the VST just has all the knobs and switches "in one place," as it were.
 
For iZotope (and most vendors), a registered product and a little patience leads to some wicked deals. iZotope's DDLY Dynamic Delay was another freebie given away a couple years ago. Also, iZotope has fully functional 10-day trials on most everything.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/07 17:32:54 (permalink)
Just as an aside, IzoTope's Dynamic Delay is top notch!
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tenfoot
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Re: Why isn't there a more straightforward way to harmonize than the klunky melodyne? 2017/04/07 18:49:31 (permalink)
I use nectar wth midi input to experiment with harmonies.  Works a treat.
 
That said I also don't find Melodyne clunky at all, though I guess you could argue that it might be possible to ride a tricycle around the word if you were used to it and knew no better:)

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