Why piracy is such a problem

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Monkey23
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/10 17:50:16 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: daveny5

I find it easier to do it that way (even if you don't) and the result is the same so quite frankly it doesn't matter if you find it the biggest pile of BS you've ever heard.


So now your story has changed. First it was because it was faster, now its because its easier. Next thing it will be because its cheaper. I hope you're ready to produce your originals when the RIAA drops by.


Faster, easier. To me, in this case, they are one in the same. Now let's not continue clogging up the OP's thread arguing over mere semantics.

P.S. I'm Canadian. The RIAA is your problem. Even if they were my problem, I am ready to produce the originals. I have nothing to hide.
#61
Oaf_Topik
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/10 18:11:05 (permalink)
ORIGINAL - LAZY THIEVING MONKEY23 -

I've told you this before Oaf, I have a sense of humor. You're just not funny.


I never said I was funny, but at least I'm not a THIEF!

#62
Toxikator
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/10 18:46:31 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Fog

Toxikator , it's basic business. you buy from a shop.. your contract is with THEM. e.g. if I bought SH1 car from CJ auto's.. I'd deal with CJ and not Strikingly Handsome. It's for CJ to deal with Strikingly Handsome NOT me..

much as customers bought macs from where I worked, they came back to us and we dealt with apple.


It's not basic business because the problem is clearly NOT the physical product, but the policies which surround it. Guitar Center doesn't have a ludicrous refund policy for hardware; I wouldn't be expected to come back during Roland's office hours to return a Fantom, but I am expected to do so for software. The reason there's a difference is because Cakewalk have policies designed (presumably) to keep people from copying the software and returning it. Guitar Center can't help the fact that Cakewalk won't take a return without the proper paperwork, and GC certainly can't be expected to cover Cakewalk's bases for shipping a damaged product.

And it's not just that, it's the way Cakewalk handled it. I mean, East West will ship replacements for damaged DVDs like it was no sweat, just fill out a form. They don't care whether you bought it from an independent Brick & Mortar retailer as long as your serial number is valid (well, WAS, they're doing iLok now). I used FL Studio before; you can buy the box but you're granted access to direct downloads of all the software as a paying customer, provided your original registration info is still valid. So if there's a problem with content, you can get it from their servers.

Either of these solutions would have been acceptable. It's clearly not that HARD to provide the replacement data if I could find it through unofficial channels so readily.

That's (for those who were concerned) the real reason I'm posting this. When people, for example, had problems with the iLok or the Syncrosoft they whined about it, loudly. Now many companies are switching... and it's only because of user complaints! This stuff is vital to the company. They don't KNOW that people are dissatisfied with their copy protection stuff unless those people make it known. I went through some frankly silly **** over this and if I (and hopefully, others, if they go through it to) don't make a stink Cakewalk won't ever address the issue.

inre MP3s: there are still legit reasons to d/l. I mean, depending on your source, you can get the data just about as fast as from your burner... and the quality control (assuming you know your sources) is often better. There are tons of people who suck at ripping mp3s and end up with crappy little iTunes-made 128 CBRs and the illegal ones sound better. Plus there's the damage issue; I myself have turned to the torrent channels for my older CDs because they often have a scratch or a skip that ruins one of my favorite tracks. And, of course, there's the classic Vinyl debate... if you want to get Vinyl to your iPod, and you haven't got an HQ setup for exactly that purpose, are you to rebuy? Especially at $10, which is WAY too much for a couple mp3s.

I don't have a particular opinion for or against music piracy, inasmuch that I believe music SHOULD be free, now that there's no P&D overhead, and will always distribute mine as such.... though I also believe that music is the IP of its creator/owner and that if they choose not to do so, that's their prerogative. It's not my place to decide for artists how their music ought to be distributed, and I do pay for music (mostly independent stuff at this point). But it's so widespread for music; I mean, the RIAA has announced it will stop its legal action against pirates, even. It's simply impossible to combat anymore. Not that it makes it right to do it just because everyone is, but can you really fight the market that way? Sooner or later you just have to acknowledge that people aren't going to pay for music anymore and look for alternative ways of generating revenue (touring has come back in a big way, and there's always ad-powered download centers...)

It's like prohibition at this point. Sure, it's against the law, but damn dude. You're not gonna stop it, you may as well accept that.
#63
WDI
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 02:18:30 (permalink)
Original: Toxikator

It's like prohibition at this point. Sure, it's against the law, but damn dude. You're not gonna stop it, you may as well accept that.


Wow Toxicator, were you drunk when you worte that? Maybe we need prohibition again!

So lets say I record an albulm after years of hard work learning to play etc. One person buys the album, puts it up on the internet and all the kiddies download it for free. I guess from you point of view that's cool. We can't stop it anyways. Right?

That's a load of crap IMO! It's just wrong. It's opinions like that that created your problem in the first place. Seems plain and simple to me.

Original: Toxikator

Plus there's the damage issue; I myself have turned to the torrent channels for my older CDs because they often have a scratch or a skip that ruins one of my favorite tracks. And, of course, there's the classic Vinyl debate... if you want to get Vinyl to your iPod, and you haven't got an HQ setup for exactly that purpose, are you to rebuy? Especially at $10, which is WAY too much for a couple mp3s.


Why is it anyones fault but your own for not taking care of your property. As far as a record is concerned, give me a break. That's like saying well, I have the record, it's legit for me to steal the CD from Best Buy.
post edited by WDI - 2009/01/11 02:22:40

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#64
F@KKER
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 12:59:55 (permalink)
no it's not.

F@KKER

Someone said:
I've had more time to play with this, and am withdrawing the bug remarks.
This appears to work as designed and is actually a pretty cool feature.
#65
jacktheexcynic
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 14:18:38 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: daveny5
That's the biggest pile of BS I've ever heard. Do you have a 2x CD player? You definitely can't download faster than you can rip. And besides with a download you have to worry about missing parts, trojans and viruses.


let's say he's got 5mbit cable, like i do. that's about 625KB per second. let's say the CD to be ripped has 11 songs, about 4 minutes long on average, so 50MB to rip (approximately). he can download a backup copy of one of his CDs in 80 seconds. can you rip a CD in 80 seconds? including the time it takes to find the CD in your pile of CDs, put it in the drive, open the ripper of choice, rip the CD, take the CD out of the drive, and put it back into the pile?

now imagine he's got a hundred CDs to backup. it's convenience, with minimal risk.

- jack the ex-cynic
#66
jacktheexcynic
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 14:40:20 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: WDI
So lets say I record an albulm after years of hard work learning to play etc. One person buys the album, puts it up on the internet and all the kiddies download it for free. I guess from you point of view that's cool. We can't stop it anyways. Right?

That's a load of crap IMO! It's just wrong. It's opinions like that that created your problem in the first place. Seems plain and simple to me.


what toxikator did has nothing to do with stealing music. he used a service also used by pirates. just like coke dealers drive on the same roads that you drive on.

the point is not that it is OK to steal, anymore than it is OK for people to get drunk and kill families in cars. the point is that the response to piracy by companies has by and large harmed their own customers more than the pirates. this post is one example of that. copyright law gives us the legal right to make backups of media that we own. it does not stipulate how those backups have to be made.

software companies should focus on making software harder to crack, not media harder to acquire. i can handle an annoying registration process if i only have to do it once, or maybe once every time i switch computers. i'm not anti-dongle either, as long as it doesn't mess with my computer or whatever.

it was probably bad form to post this here, but cakewalk, like any company, should want to know how their paying customers feel about their policies. they may not find it worthwhile to change them, but they should want to know. the first thing anyone learns about business is that is much harder to get a new customer than keep an existing one.

Original: Toxikator
Plus there's the damage issue; I myself have turned to the torrent channels for my older CDs because they often have a scratch or a skip that ruins one of my favorite tracks. And, of course, there's the classic Vinyl debate... if you want to get Vinyl to your iPod, and you haven't got an HQ setup for exactly that purpose, are you to rebuy? Especially at $10, which is WAY too much for a couple mp3s.


Why is it anyones fault but your own for not taking care of your property. As far as a record is concerned, give me a break. That's like saying well, I have the record, it's legit for me to steal the CD from Best Buy.


you have the legal right to make backup copies of intellectual property that you own. if he's got the records he can download the mp3s under copyright law if it's the same recording. the media is irrelevant. that's why the big fuss over the DMCA was how it undercut copyright law since it made it illegal to circumvent copy protection.

- jack the ex-cynic
#67
Spaceduck
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 18:05:42 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic

what toxikator did has nothing to do with stealing music. he used a service also used by pirates. just like coke dealers drive on the same roads that you drive on.


Excellent analogy, jtec. I think a few people have missed the point: toxicator did nothing illegal. (If you think he did, then instead of complaining here, just click the link at the top and report him to Cakewalk. Tell us what they tell you.) Quite simply, tox paid for something and never got it. So he went and picked it up himself. Like jtec said, he simply used the same back roads that the pirates use.

The original point of this thread is what I found much more interesting, but unfortunately it looks like it's gotten buried. The point is that piracy is causing a terrible inconvenience to the paying customer. Sort of like what terrorists did for air travel. Now, thanks to the terrorists, I supposedly can't take out my contact lenses on an 8 hour flight because my saline solution could be a bomb Well guess what, I stashed a 4oz bottle of saline in my bag and "smuggled" it on board anyway. Am I a terrorist now?

p.s. PENIS!

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#68
space_cowboy
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 18:56:41 (permalink)
well pirates get what they deserve. thats why they have wooden legs and eye patches

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#69
Spaceduck
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 19:00:06 (permalink)
An able-bodied seaman meets a pirate in a bar, and they they take turns recounting their adventures at sea.

Noting the pirate's peg-leg, hook, and eye patch the seaman asks: "So, how did you end up with the peg-leg?"

The pirate replies: "We was caught in a monster storm off the cape and a giant wave swept me overboard. Just as they were pullin' me out a school of sharks appeared and one of 'em bit me leg off".

"Blimey!" said the seaman. "What about the hook"?

"Ahhhh...", mused the pirate, "We were boardin' a trader ship, pistols blastin' and swords swingin' this way and that. In the fracas me hand got chopped off."

"Zounds!", remarked the seaman. "And how came ye by the eye patch?""

A seagull droppin' fell into me eye", answered the pirate.

"You lost your eye to a seagull dropping?", the sailor asked incredulously.

"Well..." said the pirate, "...it was me first day with the hook..."

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#70
Monkey23
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 19:11:07 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: RockStringBender
I do not steal the gear that I want to replace the one that has issues, I do not steal the SW that is incorrect, I do not punch the grocery cleark out or stealo his bread and I don't shot the dude who cut me off in traffic.

Again, you are not winning this argument with anyone except the others who think like you . You cannot push something that is wrong by dismissing the truth or explaining your behavior by blaming others for making you do it. It's wrong, you are wrong


I like how it's gone from the OP downloading a copy of a program he just bought to punching a clerk in the head or shooting a guy in traffic? If this how you think, then yeah for sure the guy is wrong! EVERYBODY'S wrong!
post edited by Monkey23 - 2009/01/11 22:16:25
#71
jacktheexcynic
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 19:19:27 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Spaceduck
"Well..." said the pirate, "...it was me first day with the hook..."





- jack the ex-cynic
#72
RockStringBender
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/11 19:58:52 (permalink)
You're not very good at keeping up with current events are you?




ORIGINAL: Monkey23

ORIGINAL: RockStringBender
I do not steal the gear that I want to replace the one that has issues, I do not steal the SW that is incorrect, I do not punch the grocery cleark out or stealo his bread and I don't shot the dude who cut me off in traffic.

Again, you are not winning this argument with anyone except the others who think like you . You cannot push something that is wrong by dismissing the truth or explaining your behavior by blaming others for making you do it. It's wrong, you are wrong


I like how it's gone from the OP downloading a copy of a program he just bought to puching a clerk in the head or shooting a guy in traffic? If this how you think, then yeah for sure the guy is wrong! EVERYBODY'S wrong!



I wish my lawn was emo..... then it would cut itself.
#73
Crg
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/12 00:25:30 (permalink)
It's too late Toxikator, you went to the Pirates, you're a Pirate now, they have your address, they'll be back, it's only a matter of time before you're a member of the crew of the Flying Dutchman and Davey Jones locker. AArrrgh!

Craig DuBuc
#74
Nate
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RE: Why piracy is such a problem 2009/01/12 09:07:52 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Toxikator
It's not basic business because the problem is clearly NOT the physical product, but the policies which surround it. Guitar Center doesn't have a ludicrous refund policy for hardware; I wouldn't be expected to come back during Roland's office hours to return a Fantom, but I am expected to do so for software. The reason there's a difference is because Cakewalk have policies designed (presumably) to keep people from copying the software and returning it. Guitar Center can't help the fact that Cakewalk won't take a return without the proper paperwork, and GC certainly can't be expected to cover Cakewalk's bases for shipping a damaged product.


Toxi sorry to hear you have had problems returning damaged software. I think maybe you are not explaining yourself correctly at GC. If GC needs to have the serial number and such stuff to get an RMA for the disc, then you could of just talked to one of the store managers and arranged to get them a fax of your info. Then they could call Cakewalk with the pertinent info during the day when you are in school. You could also drop the software off at GC at night to be dealt with the next morning.

And it's not just that, it's the way Cakewalk handled it. I mean, East West will ship replacements for damaged DVDs like it was no sweat, just fill out a form. They don't care whether you bought it from an independent Brick & Mortar retailer as long as your serial number is valid (well, WAS, they're doing iLok now). I used FL Studio before; you can buy the box but you're granted access to direct downloads of all the software as a paying customer, provided your original registration info is still valid. So if there's a problem with content, you can get it from their servers.


I'm not sure I understand the Cakewalk policy you were quoted. It sounds to me like the Cakers have questions regarding your ownership of the software. So I have to ask is this copy you have yours or was it given to you after being opened and registered by your relative who gave it to you? Please don't take this as rude to you. Having a serial number doesn't mean much, those are abundant everywhere on the web. Being registered is important to the customer service process.

Again sorry for the frustration you are expieriencing.
#75
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